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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
Hi there,
I'm new to these boards, and am dying to get opinions/advice on something pretty traumatic that just happened to me. I'm a college student, and had started seeing a psychotherapist for abandonment issues, anxiety, depression and low self esteem...the usual stuff I guess, lol.
I'd been seeing him for over three months, and things didn't seem to be going well (although I was trying to be optimistic). I found him distant and distracted, sort of uber-professional and clinical and I was having a difficult time being open with him. We had just begun CBT for anxiety, when (on the first day of my new term in school, no less) I received a brief email from him stating that he had assessed my progress, decided that he was not the right therapist for me, and had cancelled our session which was supposed to be two days after this. He left me with three names and phone numbers in case I "wished to continue working with another therapist". No more information at all.
I was in complete shock-I had tried to open myself up to this man, and I actually had told him many, many things about past abuse and my feelings about myself that I had never told another person. He was well aware that feelings of rejection and abandonment were one of my main problems-and here I felt that even my own therapist was quite coldly shutting me out.
I was very, very upset and called his cellphone and left, I'm embarrassed to say, a bit of a pathetic message crying and asking him why he was doing this to me and that I didn't think I could start all over with another therapist. He responded with another VERY chilly email, saying he was "sorry I had concerns about his previous email", but that he had spoken with a colleague who advised him that this was the right thing to do.
I had never threatened him, contacted him excessively outside of therapy (I did send him a few emails with information I was uncomfortable revealing in person), missed payments or made sexual advances towards him. I was slightly non-compliant with some of the homework, mostly out of fear of sharing my thoughts, and I didn't want to do EMDR for trauma because it at the time sounded a bit spurious.
I was a wreck all week, this just completely re-traumatized me in the worst way. I couldn't talk to people or attend school, I didn't eat for three days and just cried all the time. I was so upset that he wouldn't even acknowledge that this was painful for me or transition me to a new therapist-or even tell me the reason for this. If I did something, I need to know.
Has anyone ever heard of this happening? He's been in practice for I think about 8 or 9 years, so he's not new to the field, and this just seems so negligent to me. I can't help but think that were I not fortunate enough to have a supportive boyfriend and know enough about psychological practices to understand how wrong this was, I might have tried to hurt myself or at least had my trust in the profession completely destroyed. His emails were so brief and quite cold, and gave me really no information on why I wasn't making progress, why these other therapists (all women, lol) may be better suited for me....If anyone has any advice (should I file a complaint with his regulatory board?) I'd appreciate it so much.
Thanks, Alexis
Posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 22:30:13
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
Wow, I don't know what to say. Maybe something was happening in his personal life would be the best that I can figure. I have asked clinicians to terminate me via email, but that was at my request and I was upset to find that they considered that termination via email (or even phonecall) would be unethical. Don't know what was up with him, but it sounds to me like you are much better off finding someone else. It is a shame that termination plays on all our insecurities - but then that is what is so hard about it.
Posted by crushedout on September 10, 2004, at 22:49:18
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
Alexis,
What happened sounds very painful and shocking.
Whatever the reason was that your T terminated, I think it's unlikely that he chose to end treatment because of anything you did or did not do. It seems that he was having so much trouble treating you that he (probably correctly) sought supervision and seemingly followed the advice he was given, good or bad. Maybe he was having trouble maintaining a professional relationship with you. (Does that ring true for you? If he seemed cold and distant, perhaps it didn't feel that way to you.) For all you know, he could have been treating someone who was closely connected to you, and can't disclose that info to you (because that would be a breach of confidentiality).
In any event, I think he owed you a better explanation, even if he had to sort of make something up to do that, and I also think he should have done it in person or by phone rather than in an email. I also think you are probably better off seeing someone else, although I can imagine you don't feel that way at all right now.
I hope that helps a little. Keep posting about it.
crushedout
Posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:23:20
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
This sounds so much like how my therapist treated me; although he didn't seem quite as cold and he didn't abruptly drop me, I felt he wanted to and he expressed some dissatisfaction with the way I handled myself; when he did terminate me, he told me my transference was too strong, adding "the way you are and the way I am..." I don't know what the he** he was talking about, can only guess, and I found it really hurtful too.
I wasn't the easiest client I know that, and something always told me I wasn't really safe with him, although I really really wanted to be.
If this guy terminated you the way he did and he can live with himself, he's a callous individual whom you're lucky to be away from. There are lots of people in the world who seem really benign from the outside, but if you seriously knew them you wouldn't like them or want to be around them. Your therapist sounds like one of those people and you're probably fortunate he didn't wait any longer before terminating you.
Personally, it sounds like he was have counter-transference problems and handled this very very poorly. But, therapists are human beings and they certainly have their foibles. I wish you to feel better soon and regain confidence in yourself; you didn't deserve this no matter what.
Posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:26:04
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by crushedout on September 10, 2004, at 22:49:18
slap my hands or even block me, I'm too addicted to this and I'm sure everybody's sick of hearing from me by now. Please :)
Posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 23:26:09
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by crushedout on September 10, 2004, at 22:49:18
> Alexis,
>
> What happened sounds very painful and shocking.
>
> Whatever the reason was that your T terminated, I think it's unlikely that he chose to end treatment because of anything you did or did not do. It seems that he was having so much trouble treating you that he (probably correctly) sought supervision and seemingly followed the advice he was given, good or bad. Maybe he was having trouble maintaining a professional relationship with you. (Does that ring true for you? If he seemed cold and distant, perhaps it didn't feel that way to you.) For all you know, he could have been treating someone who was closely connected to you, and can't disclose that info to you (because that would be a breach of confidentiality).
>
> In any event, I think he owed you a better explanation, even if he had to sort of make something up to do that, and I also think he should have done it in person or by phone rather than in an email. I also think you are probably better off seeing someone else, although I can imagine you don't feel that way at all right now.
>
> I hope that helps a little. Keep posting about it.
>
> crushedoutThanks so much, you are all being so nice here. I was fortunately able to meet with another therapist who seems very suitable for me the day after this happened and that helped a bit too, one of his three referrals. She was shocked that he referred me to her-she had met him only once, years ago, and it seemed telling that he didn't refer me to therapists he actually has any professional association with-I'm sure he wouldn't want it known how he'd terminated so ineptly.
She did tell me what, as she saw it, most likely happened-he fell in love with me, was cold to avoid exhibiting his feelings, and then when he couldn't handle it he freaked out and did something very unprofessional, but fortunately not as unprofessional as might have happened if I'd continued therapy with him. I felt much better to have my being so upset validated by her-I thought I must have some serious issues to be so broken up over this.
So if that's the case it's sort of a good thing it happened, but it still hurts a ton and it was done in the most horrible way. I have a hard time accepting what she said, but he did seem to get nervous when he had to sit near me or things like that, and I thought it was all in my head but I could swear he started losing weight and dressing better....I'll probably never know for sure. I thought I didn't really have sexual feelings towards him, but I started to doubt that because he seemed to look rather better to me so I thought it was sexual transference or something. I also preferred to have 6:00 appointments (his last) due to work etc-I didn't understand why that seemed to bother him until after this happened. I had actually gone into therapy with the expectation of having sexual feelings for my therapist, it seems endlessly bizarre that possibly it was the reverse.
I hate it that I'll never know for sure, I'll never be able to just ask him what happened and it's hard to accept that. I guess I could be vindictive and file a frivilous complaint for client abandonment or something, but it wouldn't resolve anything so I doubt I'll indulge in that-I hope he doesn't repeat this with another client, though. I've gone on about this long enough, thanks for your support!
Best, Alexis
Posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:34:47
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 23:26:09
If what your new therapist tells you may have happened is really so, then all I can say is that I feel so so sorry for that therapist. It must be really difficult to know you're incapable of doing the job you want to do the most. And I mean it *hurts* to feel love for someone inaccessible. Agh. Ridiculous nonsense, this. Therapy schmerapy.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 0:19:26
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:34:47
It's hard for me to see this from that perspective, although if this is true I do want to-and he did, even though he felt distant and sort of uninvolved with me, seem like a really kind person. He loved working with children, when he was telling me about the work he'd done for the school board his whole demeanor changed and he seemed really nice and relaxed. That's what made this so shocking-it seemed like the coldest and cruelest thing imaginable, and I thought I had to have done something atrocious to make him act this way.
What hurt the most was that after I'd called him and left a message, sobbing and clearly completely upset, he wouldn't even dignify it with acknowledgement, just saying in another email (that sounded written to show to someone else, full of "I will respond in this email to your voicemail"-type stuff) that "he was sorry I was concerned". He made no arrangements even for me to talk to someone else about this, which is really negligent. I know that in all likelihood this is the worst thing he's ever done in his career, and maybe that makes me feel like he must have had good reason to do it.
Maybe I'm not being honest about this. I was probably seductive on some level-I did want him to care for me and like me, and felt like he didn't at all, and I think I tried to manipulate him into it. I did something weird that's hard to explain-and at the time I really believed it too-I tried to convince him I had BDP, and sort of exaggerated things I did to make them conform to the diagnosis. It makes little sense to me now-maybe I thought if my problems were more serious, he would have to be more involved with me than he seemed. And the very last time I saw him I talked about the difficulty I had breaking up with boyfriends. I wondered why he looked so concerned about that, I guess it explains the cowardly emails. I don't think he was wrong to feel that he wasn't the right person for me, I just wish he had respected me enough to do this properly.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 0:30:26
In reply to Alexis,, posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 23:23:20
I'm so sorry you had a similar experience-I wonder sometimes if maybe it couldn't have been worse if it was drawn-out in that way. I can completely understand the intuitive feeling of needing to protect yourself from this person as well, and anything you did that made you feel that you weren't easy for him to work with was probably part of what protected you. It's hard to remember sometimes, I think, that their job isn't meant to be easy, and it's not our responsibility to purposefully hide traits or behaviors to make it easy on them. I don't think a client's transference can ever justify ambiguous and hurtful termination-it should always be regarded as a failure or limitation on the part of the T, even if sometimes they'd rather label and blame the client instead. I hope you've found a therapist who is better able to handle their feelings able to help you grow, I wish you the best :-).
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 11, 2004, at 10:18:51
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
Alexis, this is so shocking to me. No client ever deserves to be treated this way.
While I can understand (and admire) the fact that he acknowledged that he was unable to help you(regardless of the reason, at least he knew the relationship was not a good match), the fact he told you this over email is so heartless and seemingly unprofessional.
However, you can look at the bright side of this by knowing that you are out of this relationship. Had you continued with him, perhaps you would never have progressed (due to his ego beliving he could help you and you would have wasted valuable time and money) or perhaps if the attraction theory is correct, you may have ended up in a very unhealthy situation. So either way, you come out ahead. ANd it sounds like this new T may be a breath of fresh air for you.
But really, his behavior was very inappropriate and unprofessional. I am really mad for you!
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 12:14:19
In reply to Re: Alexis,, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 0:30:26
said, therapy schmerapy. This therapist forced me to grow as a person; I know that's true. Actually, I forced myself and he basically watched. Really. The parts of me that are healthier now will never be wholly mine though, it feels like I owe him something forever. I care about that man to hugely; I think about his physical and emotional well-being constantly. Any thought that he's not doing well sends me into instant anxiety. But the thought that I can't contribute to his wellbeing really hurts me; his empathy and compassion were number one in my life for a long long time, (what's it like for people who go for years, I only saw him over a year or so, and not that often!) and now it's gone. I'll bet you know what I mean. He's become a ghost and I don't know how to live with ghosts.
Posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
In reply to My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do?, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:08:38
I am so sorry that this trauma happened to you. He does not sound like a great guy. It isn't worth complaining to the 'wherever you complain' because he did not do anything illegal or unethical. It seems that he is just cold and indifferent. Try to see one of the other therapists asap [or a therapist of your choice]. It may help you get over this. feel better. terrics
Posted by rubenstein on September 11, 2004, at 14:00:55
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
I got so angry when I read your message. I am so sorry. Nobody deserves to be treated so coldly, certainly by a trained professionaly... I am also a college student and I know how hard it can be to find the care that you need. Good luck, I am thinking of you!!!
Rubenstein
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2004, at 14:03:14
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 23:26:09
I'm so glad to read this update, Alexis, both because you did see another therapist, and because she said what I thought as soon as I read your first post!
Recently, I read something in a journal for psychiatrists. It was in an article about treating anorexics, and it said that many pdocs treating patients with both anorexia and a history of sexual abuse have such strong personal feelings towards the patient, they need to refer the patient elsewhere. While the article was focussed on actual treatment, that theme was a very strong secondary echo within it, with explicit mentions throughout of, "make sure you're not reacting to your own feelings here, and here, and here..."
And, having experienced something where the doctor didn't refer me away and probably should have, let me say that, no matter how badly he did it, you're lucky he had enough self-awareness to do so at all. I'm so sorry it hurts so much, because I can imagine quite well what you're probably going through, but I'm very glad you have another therapist, and that she's already showing herself to be a good fit for you.
Best luck, Alexis, and best hopes for the future.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 16:52:23
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to do? » alexis6, posted by terrics on September 11, 2004, at 12:52:58
> I am so sorry that this trauma happened to you. He does not sound like a great guy. It isn't worth complaining to the 'wherever you complain' because he did not do anything illegal or unethical. It seems that he is just cold and indifferent. Try to see one of the other therapists asap [or a therapist of your choice]. It may help you get over this. feel better. terrics
Hi Terrics, thanks for your support, I'm just starting to see a new T who is very compassionate :-). I am concerned, however, for the safety of his other clients-although it is his right to terminate or refer clients when necessary, he did not follow the procedure (discuss with client face-to-face, attempt to get informed consent, arrange for intermediary crisis support, transfer client records, etc) that he is ethically bound to by membership in his regulatory association. He works with many victims of severe trauma and abuse, and were he to repeat this with another client who is in a more vunerable position, he may cause great harm and possibly suicide. As someone who is considering making psychotherapy my career, I feel a moral responsibility to ensure that no harm comes to another of his clients because of his negligence. Best regards, Alexis
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:54:50
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to » alexis6, posted by Racer on September 11, 2004, at 14:03:14
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:58:19
In reply to Re: My therapist terminated me by an email-what to, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 16:52:23
My therapist didn't terminate me in a very professional manner either, I mean, over the phone, you know, and laying the blame squarely on my lap. "No, heh, your transference is too strong." How on earth can any therapist say something like that???? Jesus. You can block me now Dr. Bob.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 17:21:22
In reply to Alexis!, posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 16:58:19
> My therapist didn't terminate me in a very professional manner either, I mean, over the phone, you know, and laying the blame squarely on my lap. "No, heh, your transference is too strong." How on earth can any therapist say something like that???? Jesus. You can block me now Dr. Bob.
Hi Susan, that's appalling and I am so sorry to hear that your T was so callous and irresponsible. It is entirely the responsibility of the therapist to address any transference on the part of the client, and certainly blaming the client for their completely natural feelings is unethical in the extreme. It can only serve to increase anxiety about future therapeutic relationships-and I think we all know how difficult therapy can be even in the best of times. Have you found someone better?
Cheers, Alexis
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 17:44:42
In reply to Re: Alexis!, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 17:21:22
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:04:57
In reply to Nobody better right now thanks for asking:) (nm), posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 17:44:42
I'm sure you will find someone great when the time is right :-). Until then, I'm happy for you that you have the support of these boards, and I hope it brings you great comfort. Best, Alexis
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:11
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 21:09:47
> How perfectly dreadful!!! I'm not sure I'd *want* to go to anyone he recommended. But that's just me. I'm a stubborn soul. On the other hand, I'd probably be finding another therapist if only for them to request my files and possibly talk with him, and let me know what on earth happened. In my state, you can request your own files, but I don't know that I'd want to look at the files in this case without a professional being present.
>
> I'm truly sorry this happened to you. I wish that therapists had a better understanding of what termination means to a client. On the bright side you're clearly better off without this therapist, and the saddest thing is that he didn't terminate all his clients and allow them to find better therapists. That being said, perhaps the reasons had very little to do with you, and a lot to do with him. Maybe you stirred up something in him that he couldn't handle, but that had no negative implications about you.
>
> You might want to post on Psycho-Babble Psychology. There are many people there who I'm sure will empathize. I'll create a link for you, shall I?Thanks Dinah, I'm sorry I didn't realize that this board was for other types of posts. I appreciate your kind response, I'm trying pretty hard to look on this as a positive. Cheers, Alexis
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:12
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 21:14:44
You're doing a much better job of looking on the positive side than I could under the circumstances. I'm glad you have a terrific boyfriend to help you through it.
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:12
In reply to My therapist just terminated me-by email!, posted by alexis6 on September 10, 2004, at 20:47:34
> Hi there,
>
> I'm new to these boards, and am dying to get opinions/advice on something pretty traumatic that just happened to me. I'm a college student, and had started seeing a psychotherapist for abandonment issues, anxiety, depression and low self esteem...the usual stuff I guess, lol.
>
> I'd been seeing him for over three months, and things didn't seem to be going well (although I was trying to be optimistic). I found him distant and distracted, sort of uber-professional and clinical and I was having a difficult time being open with him. We had just begun CBT for anxiety, when (on the first day of my new term in school, no less) I received a brief email from him stating that he had assessed my progress, decided that he was not the right therapist for me, and had cancelled our session which was supposed to be two days after this. He left me with three names and phone numbers in case I "wished to continue working with another therapist". No more information at all.
>
> I was in complete shock-I had tried to open myself up to this man, and I actually had told him many, many things about past abuse and my feelings about myself that I had never told another person. He was well aware that feelings of rejection and abandonment were one of my main problems-and here I felt that even my own therapist was quite coldly shutting me out.
>
> I was very, very upset and called his cellphone and left, I'm embarrassed to say, a bit of a pathetic message crying and asking him why he was doing this to me and that I didn't think I could start all over with another therapist. He responded with another VERY chilly email, saying he was "sorry I had concerns about his previous email", but that he had spoken with a colleague who advised him that this was the right thing to do.
>
> I had never threatened him, contacted him excessively outside of therapy (I did send him a few emails with information I was uncomfortable revealing in person), missed payments or made sexual advances towards him. I was slightly non-compliant with some of the homework, mostly out of fear of sharing my thoughts, and I didn't want to do EMDR for trauma because it at the time sounded a bit spurious.
>
> I was a wreck all week, this just completely re-traumatized me in the worst way. I couldn't talk to people or attend school, I didn't eat for three days and just cried all the time. I was so upset that he wouldn't even acknowledge that this was painful for me or transition me to a new therapist-or even tell me the reason for this. If I did something, I need to know.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this happening? He's been in practice for I think about 8 or 9 years, so he's not new to the field, and this just seems so negligent to me. I can't help but think that were I not fortunate enough to have a supportive boyfriend and know enough about psychological practices to understand how wrong this was, I might have tried to hurt myself or at least had my trust in the profession completely destroyed. His emails were so brief and quite cold, and gave me really no information on why I wasn't making progress, why these other therapists (all women, lol) may be better suited for me....If anyone has any advice (should I file a complaint with his regulatory board?) I'd appreciate it so much.
>
> Thanks, Alexis
>
>That is really terrible. I can understand why you would feel so traumatized. I agree with Dinah that this guy can't be a very good therapist if he dealt with you in this manner and therefore you aren't going to be missing much in the long-run. I wonder where he got his degree - the School of Hard Knocks? I also agree that there may be some issue involved here that he personally can't deal with or that he thinks a woman therapist could handle better. Perhaps he sensed that you were less than thrilled with him and he feared rejection or failure himself. Even so, he should have given you more information to that effect and he should have done much more to ensure a smooth transition for your sake. The "first do no harm" motto should apply here.
I don't know anything about how therapists are regulated but I do think that somehow he should be accountable for the way that he treated you. He had a right to terminate the professional relationship but he also had an obligation to explain it to you more and not leave you so traumatized.
I am sure you will find someone much better and you will be thankful that you're not seeing him anymore. In the meantime, it's unfortunately going to be painful.Lots of hugs,
Kara
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:13
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 21:36:36
> >
> >
>
> That is really terrible. I can understand why you would feel so traumatized. I agree with Dinah that this guy can't be a very good therapist if he dealt with you in this manner and therefore you aren't going to be missing much in the long-run. I wonder where he got his degree - the School of Hard Knocks? I also agree that there may be some issue involved here that he personally can't deal with or that he thinks a woman therapist could handle better. Perhaps he sensed that you were less than thrilled with him and he feared rejection or failure himself. Even so, he should have given you more information to that effect and he should have done much more to ensure a smooth transition for your sake. The "first do no harm" motto should apply here.
>
> I don't know anything about how therapists are regulated but I do think that somehow he should be accountable for the way that he treated you. He had a right to terminate the professional relationship but he also had an obligation to explain it to you more and not leave you so traumatized.
>
> I am sure you will find someone much better and you will be thankful that you're not seeing him anymore. In the meantime, it's unfortunately going to be painful.
>
> Lots of hugs,
> Kara
>
Thanks, Kara, I need all the hugs I can get right now :-). I do think I've found someone new, actually one of his recommendations who was kind enough to see the day after this happened. She's really cool and chic and warm, I felt instantly comfortable with her and having been able to talk with her about this is a big part of why I haven't completely gone insane. She told me as well that she was quite sure why he did this, but it's something I don't feel comfortable accepting (that he fell in love with me) and I guess I wonder what else it could be. Thanks again!
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 11, 2004, at 18:26:14
In reply to Re: My therapist just terminated me-by email! » alexis6, posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 21:36:36
(((Kara)))I have been through a similar situation before. There are good therapists and there are bad therapists out there. You ran into a bad one. I'm sorry that that happened to you, you did not deserve that. You deserve a competent therapist, a warm and caring person. They are out there, and I'm confident that you can get one!
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