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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 12:14:11
In reply to Re: a suggestion, posted by lucy stone on June 21, 2004, at 8:17:55
Well, since I'm on my 3rd major depressive episode in my life, do I really need to "re-learn" the lifestyle changes that I never really gave up in the first place?
I will be posting a new post (soon) about the hazards of PT that I've learned from my personal experiences. I hope you will read it.
Thank you
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2004, at 12:26:42
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 10:54:46
>It's just so hard because you don't know if you can hold on because you don't know where the end is, at least for me.
Oh this is so true! That makes it scary. You wonder what else will show itself and how deep the well of pain is.
Take care,
gg
Posted by partlycloudy on June 21, 2004, at 12:50:18
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2004, at 12:26:42
Antigua, for me it seems that therapy stirs up the pot in my head; makes me think about and confront issues that I have submerged quite nicely until now, thank you very much. Which is what landed us in therapy! And perhaps there's no start, middle, nor end, but a process that helps us see different choices and paths available to us. I find change extremely distressing: I stayed in a marriage that was absolute misery for 15 years longer than I should have (total of 18 years, I'm being generous about the first 3 of them), resulting in being treated for PTSD!! From being married!!! So for me, change is not only essential for my health, but I'm not able to see the possibilities without help. The meds help me function from day to day, so I am better able to tackle the roots of my problems with my T. Sometimes I feel like I'm wasting her time, and then other times she has seen that I'm not getting anywhere. That's when she suggested I try the EMDR.
For myself, I find that every issue I face and deal with, there are 2 more to take its place. Not new issues, but ones that have been biding their time in my mind's lair.
Posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:28:08
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by partlycloudy on June 21, 2004, at 12:50:18
It IS hard to have any idea/perception of how many issues are hiding in that lair. When I find myself strong enough to face one then there are always more behind it. Some are much harder to handle, some are easier, but there's just no way of knowing. I've found that the things I thought would knock me over aren't always what I thought they would be. And that some just slip right by me. Like yesterday. Father's Day. I was "doing" Father's Day for my husband yesterday and it wasn't until late in the afternoon that I literally smacked my head and said, "of course, it's Father's Day," which has so many meanings on so many different levels for me. While I wrestle w/my demons, I also have to acknowledge the loving relationship I had w/my father. But of course that stirs me up--no wonder yesterday was tough.
In a perfect world, I would know all these things before they hit me so I could behave appropriately. In a perfect world, all of these issues would be resolved. I wonder, though, do we get to a point where we decide that we've resolved enough of them or do we have to get through ALL of them before we feel o.k.? Just a rhetorical question, really.
I'm very glad you're back,
antigua
Posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think) » partlycloudy, posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:28:08
Glad I wasn't the only one. I "knew" it was going to be hard this year but I stuffed it away. But I was distracted and tired all day and had that tightness/pain ball in my chest. Luckily we were at my in-laws so I didn't have to do much. I realized late last night that it was about Father's Day.
What I have noticed is that anxiety in general is more of a problem as we get near some of the really hard subjects. I know the goal is to unload some of the emotions that surround the old memories so that they don't destroy you when they surface but that seems such a long way away. I think I've "told" most of the really hard stuff now, but I can't say that it isn't all still really emotional for me. And confusing. And sometimes we go down a path that surprises us both with its intensity and pain. I think the description of "Lair of the mind" is a very good one.
I have therapy in 3 hours and I honestly can't think of what to safely talk about today. Of course, I was having the same problem on Thursday and thought I would take the easy way out. I said, "since I don't having anything pressing, is there anything we've touched on that you feel like we should go back to?" I thought he'd say, "let's just see what comes up..." Instead, turns out there was an issue that he felt was really important to talk about and I was completely surprised that he brought it up. (Yes, I had been consciously, highly avoiding it.) So essentially I opened the door for him. *sigh* It was a good discussion but a long way from "safe".
Let's practice:
T: "How was your weekend?"
Me: "Fine."Think that will work???
Posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:55:19
In reply to Father's Day » antigua, posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
"Fine" never does it. Geez Daisy, you might have to be more creative than that if you're going to HIDE something from him :). Maybe if you look him straight in the eye when pronoucing "fine," he may actually believe you.
Nope, mine wouldn't either. She doesn't even ask me how I am anymore. She can tell by my demeanor, so it's more like, "o.k., what's going on, what's wrong?"
I'm happy for you that you feel the hard parts are almost all out--let the healing begin!I'm jealous, but since you're such a nice person, I'll forgive you.
Good luck today,
antigua
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
In reply to Father's Day » antigua, posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
Excuse me if you said not to reply to you. I believe it was another poster.
I'm very curious as to why you said:
"I have therapy in 3 hours and I honestly can't think of what to safely talk about today."
Why would one go to a T with whom they can't safely talk. I don't get it. Are you willing to tell me what type of therapy you are in and for what disorder. I'm baffled.
Thank you
Posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
Some people have very painful things to talk about in therapy. Here if having a hard time might want to go into session to have a safe talk that will not be overwhelming. Does that make sense to you? I deal with very painful things and find it hard but my therapist is very safe. I think that that poster has a very safe therapist but working on some painful things if you were to look at her posts. Also I need therapy for issues. Am I depressed? Yes I am and have been in hospital a few times in which one was a serious suicide attempt. Do I take meds today? No for some personal reasons. Here need to talk and feel. This is all IMO. For one time could you please consider how some of the folks here hurt and therapy is helping them much. If it was not for having a supportive caring therapist I might not be sitting here writing this. Does my therapist care for me? Yes in many ways. Do I feel dependent on him and need his help? Yes in healthy ways. I am a very independent person in many ways but right now in life need the support of someone. I suffered enough in life and now I deserve to be helped to find happiness and peace in my life. Also I might be in therapy for the rest of my life. I think there are many others here that deserve the same and I hope they are getting that. There are bad therapists out there. If my therapist did not believe in DID I would be in serious trouble. I live with this every day and cannot explain how some days the pain that is real. An intense pain. The tears that flow in sessions. Not because of therapy but due to the fact that I was hurt in many ways and attempting to now face and accept it. Attempting to learn how to live a happy life. I deserve that. Sorry to all if this is long.
Posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:14:14
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
Fires,
I have been in psychotherapy for a little over a year. I go currently 3x's a week and usually have at least one phone check in with my Therapist during the week.
What I meant by "safe" was not opening up a whole bunch of painful "stuff" because this is a hectic work week for me -- have a corporate budget due to my Board of Directors. This, in and of itself, is stressful.
Basically I suffer from situational depression (my husband is dying) and PTSD. I also have a high stress job, which I love, but since we work with disabled infants and toddlers, we often have to deal with their deaths. You never get use to this.
Therapy for me flips from lots of intensive support to exploring what happened to me. Today we talked about what being happy looks like to me, vacation possibilities and life goals. On top of everything else, I'm trying to "find myself" and decide who I really am, how this fits with what other people want me to be and what might have to change in order to mesh the two.
Do I feel safe with my Therapist? Absolutely. He is amazing. Do I feel safe with my memories? No. they are loaded with fear and self-hatred.
It might surprise you to know that before we started working on the PTSD we had several discussions about whether this would be helpful or not, how disruptive it might be to my life and if this was even the right time to do this work. But since the memories were forcing themselves forward, we decided we were going to have to deal with them. My Therapist is very cautious, never asks leading questions and takes all of this very seriously. He is at least as smart as I am (she says, ego firmly intact)so he rarely lets me get away with "easy" answers. I'm very use to being in charge of everything, including my emotions. It has surprised the hell out of me to feel like a young child sometimes.
You asked a very good question. I wasn't offended. Before I started therapy, I wouldn't have believed I would have this intense of a relationship, both with therapy and with my Therapist. It challenges me like nothing ever, ever, has. It makes me be truthful and not hide behind my "so together" exterior.
I'm sorry you never had the same experience. I look forward to you posting more about your experiences.
Posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:17:49
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
rs,
Thank you for your indignation on my behalf. I could feel it all the way out here in Ca! You are very sweet.
What you said makes lots of sense, but I wasn't offended, I sort of set myself up, didn't I?
I guess I think my Therapist is so good I no longer feel very defensive about him. (OK, except that dependency demon, which makes me worry but still...) My therapy is very necessary for me, and ultimately that is what is important.
I'm glad you have someone to work with who cares about you and can listen and support you. You are working hard. I love reading your posts. Keep at it!
smiles
Daisy
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
>>For one time could you please consider how some of the folks here hurt and therapy is helping them much.<<
Can you please point out one time when I didn't consider what you said? Also, how do you know what I'm considering? I think you may be making assumptions about what I'm considering/not considering.
It does seem that some of the folks here are quite hurt and confused. It does not appear from the posts that I've read, that therapy is helping them at all. That is why I recommend meds to a few who said they were thinking of suicide. How much can therapy be helping if they are still considering suicide? I don't cover my opinions up to be politically correct.
>>If my therapist did not believe in DID I would be in serious trouble.<<
I don't know what DID is. Please enlighten me.
Good Luck to all
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:15
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
> I don't know what DID is. Please enlighten me.
>
> Good Luck to allWhy fires, dear, I'll give you a little hint. It's one of the disorders that you said treatment for was a fraud. So perhaps you would like to tread lightly before you inadvertantly call posters frauds. Which even Dr. Bob must surely see as a violation of the civility guidelines.
Posted by rs on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:51
In reply to Thank you for being a White Knight » rs, posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:17:49
No problem. I enjoy reading your posts. you are an inspiration for me. Daisy you deserve much caring and happiness in your life. Hugs if ok
Posted by rs on June 22, 2004, at 2:24:42
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
I do apologize if I was assuming. It was all IMO and again I apologize. Take care.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
In reply to Re: DID » fires, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:15
I don't really see the distinction between calling treatment for a disorder a fraud, and calling someone who says they're being treated for that disorder either a fraud or delusional.
Dr. Bob apparently thinks it's not the same thing at all.
So perhaps you or Dr. Bob could explain how what you said wasn't calling any posters with a disorder you think treatment for is a fraud, either making their disorder up or delusional.
Or maybe Dr. Bob thinks it's ok to tell a poster they're either making their disorder up, or they're delusional.
It's so hard to tell without facial expressions.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:39:17
In reply to Re: Or perhaps not, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
Maybe you could help me out there.
You've got your picture up there. Could you capture the appropriate facial expression to give me a hint?
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 3:23:12
In reply to Re: Or perhaps not, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
I do believe that post belonged on Admin. I'll redirect it and start a new thread below on the psychological damage caused by skeptic sites.
Posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 10:43:33
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
It's baffling to me how you might have come to the conclusion that therapy is not helping the people who post here about how hurt they are. The way I read it -- and I've been reading posts here for several months now -- therapy has been immensely helpful for most of the people who post here. Maybe you just have a different definition of help than I do?
I would like to offer my own personal story of therapy. When I started I was suffering from recurring depression and anxiety that often "took over" my life. Two and a half years later, and I can say that I haven't had an obsessive anxiety episode in over a year (that's a lifetime record). My self injury is at an all time low. I've embarked on an exciting career change that I was terrified to even consider before therapy. My relationships with my family and friends have improved drastically. I am happier than I have ever been in my life, on the whole, and I feel that my future is wide open and that I'm free. These are things that I never felt before therapy. I attribute all of these drastic and much appreciated changes largely to therapy. Having that support, encouragement, challenge, and caring was a huge new thing in my life. Talking through my experiences was huge for me. No one had ever let me do that before. It helped me to put everything in a better perspective. I can't imagine how I could have done the same without the help of my wonderful therapist. I would be slogging through way back at the beginning right now if not for his help.
I suppose one could attribute these changes to something other than the therapy. But that was the only thing that I changed in my life at that time, and I firmly believe that it gave me the support I needed to consider -- or even want -- the other changes that came later.
pegasus
Posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 12:47:56
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 10:43:33
Sorry but I suddenly have business that needs taking care of. Hopefully, all of those who replied to me with such well written posts will understand.
You said: "I suppose one could attribute these changes to something other than the therapy."
Great point. ((((Time)))) alone tends to heal all wounds.
Till I have time to return,
Best wishes to all
Posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 12:59:51
In reply to Re: Or perhaps not, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
I felt I went out of my way not to mention any sprcific poster or to use ad hominem attacks. I think I stated my point of view and provided links to info. that supports my point of view.
Surely, I've been civil. You think not? Why?
I must go and may not be back for a while. Toilet overflowed, car needs gas, books to return to library, trying to sell my brother's car, etc...
Take care
Posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 14:21:11
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 12:47:56
fires,
You noticed that I said "I suppose one could attribute these changes to something other than the therapy."
And you concluded:
"Great point. ((((Time)))) alone tends to heal all wounds."But you ignored the rest of what I said in that paragraph: That I firmly believe that the changes are due to therapy. I'd had those problems my entire life (39 years), and then within a few months of starting therapy things started getting a lot better.
I suppose it's up to each individual to draw the conclusions that make sense to them. It just doesn't make sense to me that it could have been time alone that led to all of the changes I experienced during therapy, which were unprecedented in my life. To me that just seems like ignoring the evidence.
And when I find myself ignoring evidence, I usually find it useful to consider why I'm so invested in a particular view that I'm willing to ignore evidence to the contrary. I find that those types of explorations lead to lots of insight about myself, which helps me think more clearly and make better decisions. It's a trick I learned in therapy. ;)
pegasus
Posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 15:11:21
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 14:21:11
You said: "I'd had those problems my entire life (39 years), and then within a few months of starting therapy things started getting a lot better."
I don't recall being informed of this until after I made my post. :) Which expains why my time statement would be logical= based on what I knew at that time.
Thanks
Posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 15:51:03
In reply to Re: Father's Day » pegasus, posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 15:11:21
OK, fine. I did say that over the 2 years that I was in therapy all of those things changed. It didn't happen all at the end of those 2 years if that's what you were thinking.
I'm afraid that I just can't understand where you are coming from wrt your posts here. I would prefer not to correspond with you further on this or any other issue.
Good luck with everything.
pegasus
Posted by shadows721 on June 23, 2004, at 1:36:45
In reply to Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 10:02:22
I am so sorry that you are going through a rough time right now. It sounds like you are doing a lot of really tough work in T. It so understandable that the powerful feelings would flow over into other aspects of your life.
I feel that conforting yourself is a real priority right now. It's not easy to allow these feelings to come out and then try to put them back away again. It's like a boiling pot that's demanding your attention. Please take gentle care of yourself right now.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 23, 2004, at 5:07:31
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by shadows721 on June 23, 2004, at 1:36:45
Thank you for your very thoughtful and validating message -- it made me feel cared for. I'm hanging in there.
This is the end of the thread.
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