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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 22:10:53
My T said on MANY occasions that I am VERY self depreciating. Once he threw himself back in his chair, threw his hands up and then sat forward...shook his head and said "stop it you're so self depreciating", and we both busted out loling ..he is cute and sooo REAL not all blank like some T's he is animated and all..He made me make a list up of good things about me but still remarks I do it....Anyhow being I even drive my T crazy....what can I do, any tips on how to stop it? Have you done it? Do I REALLY do it that much and that bad? Maybe I am just realistic? Thanks ahead
Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 23:05:57
In reply to Self Depreciating, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 22:10:53
Does it really reflect how you feel about yourself? I think for some people it reflects a genuine lack of self worth, but for others it might be a habit or a manner of presenting themselves. Perhaps because of prior experiences that tought them that speaking that way was safer or less threatening to someone else?
Posted by Racer on March 22, 2004, at 23:47:20
In reply to Self Depreciating, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 22:10:53
I think it's partly a depression thing, partly a societal thing in America, and partly a Girl Thing. If you watch a lot of people, self-depreciatory behavior is more common in women, and the women who don't do it are often called by less than complimentary names. Men, overall, are far more likely to express their abilities openly. (For instance, I think most women have heard some man some time tell them that he's great in bed -- when was the last time you heard a woman say that?)
We do live in a puritanical, protestant based culture. That's where we get that whole work-ethic, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, anyone can get anywhere through hard work, etc. It doesn't mean that any of us are protestants, nor puritans, just that this country prides itself on the virtues espoused by our Founding Fathers, and those values were based in Puritanism. (Who was it who said that Puritanism was the deep fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun?) Part of that ethic is that we're not supposed to blow our own horns. We're supposed to be modest, hard working, God fearing, etc. There's a distrust of saying, "Hey, I'm really good at this!" Some of us take that a little too far, of course, and it does seem to have a strong correlation with depression.
(Hey, I'm the one who, when Dr EyeCandy said I was a perfectionist, rejected the notion since I don't do anything perfectly. You wanna get depressed? Realize that you're a failure at being a perfectionist!)
The woman thing is harder, because it really is based on an artificial model of what is Womanly. Think about this one specific example: if you see a man who keeps his mouth slightly open most of the time, you probably think he's a little immature and not too bright. Yet, for some reason, when a woman keeps her mouth open that way, she's much more likely to be seen as sexy. Why? Maybe because it's a sign of domestication? The woman is more like an immature male, so she's sexy. That's just my theory about what causes it, but the phenomena is real and has been studied to some extent.
Then there's the depression part of it. Gee, I can't even be sick right! I drive my doctor nuts, and he's sick of me... That part is really, really difficult to get past, but we gotta do it in order to recover. {{sigh}} One thing that helped me with this same sort of issue was to step back, think about how I reacted to people who are self-depreciating, and what I'd feel more comfortable hearing from them. (Since I use my students as models for this, it's OK to say I want to hear something from them. In fact, I often tell my adolescent girls that they need to tell me three things they did well before their lesson ends. Let me tell you, it is damned hard for most of them. The boys only seem to have trouble limiting themselves to three things!)
I hope my rambings here helped you. Good luck!
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 0:33:38
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating, posted by Racer on March 22, 2004, at 23:47:20
WOW Good points and thank you I am tired and soon to bed but now you have me thinking maybe I don't GET the meaning of the term. I thought it meant like you put yourself down a lot but from what you both said..and you expounded on Racer..I am thinking it's more...Yes? No? I'll be back tomorrow to see what I get and don't here. I do know I am pretty..and say thank you when folks say so, I do not say as some girls say...oh no or if its on an outfit..Oh no this old thing I say...simply thanks...BUT I am not a brainiac nor am I the queen of cretins I do know I am not as smart as many to most posters in here.. I am lost now..lol HELP :) WHAT IS THE MEANING ???? AND THANKS
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 23, 2004, at 8:39:35
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 23:05:57
I agree with the eloquence of Racer. I do it a lot. I also do it for comedic affect though. But it also drives my T crazy.
Posted by Racer on March 23, 2004, at 8:51:35
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating/DINAH AND RACER, posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 0:33:38
Being able to say "Thank you" is a big deal. If you want to try an experiment, think about how you feel when someone tells you you're pretty and you say Thank you. Now, imagine if someone told you that, say, a comment you made was insightful. Can you imagine feeling the same way about that? Or if someone complimented you on something you've made. Can you bring that same feeling up and say Thank you?
I, personally, am terminably insecure. I do a lot of things, but I can't take credit for them. For one thing, they're not right, no matter how hard I try. I sew, and a lot of people are impressed by that. They see a blouse that I've made, and say, "Wow! That's amazing, you're really good!" I can't accept that, because I know what's wrong with it. I try not to point out the mistakes, but that's about the best I can do. I teach, and that's one thing I can be pretty healthy about: when someone tells me I'm a good teacher, I can say, "Thank you," but then I have to qualify it: "I try hard, and I've been fortunate to have some great students to teach me how to do it better." And I can't accept "pretty" compliments. (And a lot of compliments leave me feeling patronized. {{shrug}} With great effort, I can accept specific compliments about specific acheivements, but open-ended compliments leave me feeling as if the person giving them isn't able to say something specific, and is just saying it as a sort of dismissive pat on the head. Guess we all have our little peculiarities.)
Here's a view from smartsville for you: I'd rather be capable than smart, and I'd say there's more predictive value in trying than in having native smarts. There are a lot of smart people out there who never accomplish anything at all, but there are also a lot of people who score in the average range on IQ tests who achieve great things. Don't worry about where you fit on the bell curve of intelligence, worry about whether you -- no one else, just YOU -- feel as if you are doing what you can do. Intelligence is highly overrated, and misunderstood, and is truly about as meaningful as hair color. Can you think your way out of a paper bag? If so, you're certainly smart enough to be successful, so it's not something to beat yourself up over. (And those of us who scored well on tests at any time will tell you, a high score on IQ tests just gives us one more thing to berate ourselves over.)
So, big hugs, and I hope this helped. If you want to find out more about IQ, try the book "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould. If you're not familiar with his work, he can be a bit difficult to read, but if you can get through it (I mostly can, though I bog down here and there -- NOT a sign of reader failure), it can help put your mind at ease. Also, if you really think you're just not too smart, go get your IQ tested: it's probably higher than you think. (My mother thought she was dim, all her life, until she finally got her IQ tested and scored in the top two percent. All those years of insecurity. Go figure.)
Good luck, and let me know if I can clarify anything.
Posted by coral on March 23, 2004, at 11:04:31
In reply to Self Depreciating, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 22:10:53
I think self-deprecation has to be taken in context. I frequently ask my therapist to "Leave a trail of bread crumbs," so I can follow where he's going. Now, I know I'm bright but when I'm working with my therapist, I'm sloshing through ... choke, eek, ugh, sputter, sputter, cough, cough...emotions. My logical skills don't do me a whit of good in that arena, especially right now since we've taken the BIG DIVE into core emotional issues.
Coral
Posted by Karen_kay on March 23, 2004, at 12:07:01
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating/DINAH AND RACER, posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 0:33:38
From your own words...
**BUT I am not a brainiac nor am I the queen of cretins I do know I am not as smart as many to most posters in here..
Now, you wrote this. I, on the other hand, know for a fact that I'm not as quick as many posters here, but this is the ONLY time you will ever hear me say it. I've gotten into the habit instead of stating the opposite. On days when I'm feeling dumb or slow, I continually tell myself I'm the quickest, smartest girl in the world. On days when I'm feeling fat, I reassure myself I'm beautiful. And by stating the opposite, it balances everything out, creating a realistic balance in my head. It's a new habit I've picked up, rather than the old habit of knocking myself down. And it's worked wonders. It takes time to make yourself believe it, but trust me, after a while, you honestly do. I'm one of the hardest people in the world to convince and I've somehow managed to convince myself that there really are some pretty good qualities about myself that I like. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can. And I used to be my own worst enemy. But, I still just HATE it when I see my own typos! OHHHH!!! I hate it! I suppose I should proof read from time to time, shouldn't I?
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 23:59:45
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating, posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 23, 2004, at 8:39:35
Lol you do it to make people lol? I guess now and then I do too maybe not really knowing it :)
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 0:12:24
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating/DINAH AND RACER » Fallen4myT, posted by Racer on March 23, 2004, at 8:51:35
Actually Racer yes I can just say thank you at a lot of those, like I draw very well, and have beautiful flower gardens, I am funny etc ...my area of trouble seems to be in the smarts arena :) I have had a lot of tests my IQ is above average, I did go to college and graduated with honors..scary huh lol...But somehow I feel intellectually defective. AND THAT is what drives my T nuts. I am not sure if its all the years being called names by my husband or what but I feel so dense. Yet I know with what I have accomplished I can't be THAT dumb but then I falter.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 0:16:04
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating, posted by coral on March 23, 2004, at 11:04:31
Lol I love your descriptive writing Coral...Exactly some things I have no issue with then others I am light years behind sometimes due more to emotional issues but I seem in therapy to dumb out at times. Glad to know I am not alone :)
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 0:29:04
In reply to A good example... » Fallen4myT, posted by Karen_kay on March 23, 2004, at 12:07:01
Thank you Karen and sounds like you do self affirmations??? I can try that but you maybe missed my point in that I do not see myself as the dumbest nor the smartest on the boards or anywhere else. Thus my comment on **BUT I am not a brainiac nor am I the queen of cretins I do know I am not as smart as many to most posters in here.. ** Note the lack of black and white I did that for a reason to illustrate that I did not totally check into I am sooo dumb mode. I will try the positive thoughts....sounds good to me..once I convinced myself I hated eggs and dairy that way to lower my lipids..it works
HUGS
Posted by fallsfall on March 24, 2004, at 8:17:24
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating, posted by coral on March 23, 2004, at 11:04:31
You expressed that so well!
I'm going to start a thread below about foreign emotions.
Posted by Racer on March 24, 2004, at 8:52:40
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating/DINAH AND RACER » Racer, posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 0:12:24
OK, there is a name for what you're describing. It's called Depression. Yeah, I'm being a little flip, because I'm suffering from it in a big way this morning, but that really and truly is depression related, and it's not that uncommon. Personally, I get into that sort of thing both about my intellect and my body. Let me try to explain, see if that helps.
For my intellect, I never worry that I'm not 'smart', I just worry that I'm not smart *enough*, or that I'm missing some large chunk that would allow me to negotiate the world. I think this probably started way back in grammar school, because something happened that just feels like a model for all of it. I had trouble learning math, and got in a lot of trouble for asking questions. The teacher would say things like, "You're so smart, you should get this. If you wanted to learn it, you would, so you're just making trouble." The school administration finally said, "Well, you've got a history of major head trauma, so we think you can't learn math because of organic brain damage." Right-o, they absolved themselves of any responsibility for teaching me math. I spent years in abject shame, trying to get over my utter failure. Then, in college, I was 4.0 for math and science, because there the professors actually tried to TEACH! I've still got a bad taste in my mouth over this sort of thing, because I really believed to my core that it was MY failure. It's taken me years to see that it was having a not very good teacher, who was being protected by the administration against my benefit. I still find myself saying, "I don't understand [x], it must be brain damage..." Again, more failure on my part. Does that make sense?
My body is a harder one, because I really and truly think I'm so peculiar looking that I'm barely human. Right now, I *know* that I weigh at least 30 pounds less than my ideal, but I still *feel* huge and ugly. When I look in the mirror, I see a huge belly, fat thighs, droopy arms, double chins, etc. My mind starts into this whole thing about how I must be wrong about my ideal weight, that weight must be an illusion, it must be too heavy, since I'm so fat now. Someone said yesterday that she knew she was too thin when her thighs didn't rub together when she walked. Mine don't, which is amazing since they're so fat. See what I mean?
Anyway, those self doubting things are insidious, and really terrible to try to live through. I'm sorry you're going through them, because NO ONE deserves them. (When I'm in this sort of state, I can't believe I deserve anything, so I'm applying the same principle I use on myself on you: "If no person deserves this, and you are a person, by definition you do not deserve this." I hope that helps.)
You now have the Racer Seal of Approval. I hope it helps. Feed it herrings, and take good care of it. Maybe someday it'll make friends with the Fallen4MyT Seal of Approval.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 24, 2004, at 9:21:23
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 23:59:45
I do it all the time to make people laugh and it works like a charm. People also find it charming. Just look at Hugh Grant. He has made his celebrity on self-deprecation and I think he's as charming as thay come. However, the drawback for me is that I have done it for so many years that now I believe all the self-deprecation.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 17:36:07
In reply to Racer Seal Of Approval » Fallen4myT, posted by Racer on March 24, 2004, at 8:52:40
Aww Racer you're so sweet and make me lol...I have never had a SEAL OF APPROVAL...THANK YOU <3
You make perfect sense I do not have a dx of depression but get depressed from time to time mostly reactive depression. For instance, recently I lost a loved one, want a divorce or for someone to Soprano the ole husband <g> and on and on. I am half looking into going to Grad school. Maybe that's my ticket out of this hell hole of a house. I think you nailed something in another post and it has stuck with me to some degree..that being I have not USED my smarts or gifts..well minus my looks which I tend to exploit and allow others to do the same. I look a lot like Blair in the soap opera One Life to Live...lol how sad I watch too much TV and that seems to be the only area in years I have maintained. I did not nor do not keep up on my education, I do not work, I do not in short use many of my gifts and that may be my real problem. I am a housewife and that is so dull and I hate..HATE my marriage, It is verbally, emotionally and physically abusive ...And my solution...at TIMES is...maybe I will meet someone else and can marry him :) Sad and funny in a way..I wasted ME.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 17:37:48
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » Fallen4myT, posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 24, 2004, at 9:21:23
Lol I like Hugh Grants kind of humor thus I would like yours....sad that you start to believe it though....Have you tried to stop the false belief?
Posted by Racer on March 24, 2004, at 19:03:14
In reply to Re: Racer Seal Of Approval » Racer, posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 17:36:07
Oh, you *know* I've got a lot to say on this subject! I'll restrain myself, though, and only say this:
Find a volunteer activity that reflects your interests. Yeah, yeah, yeah -- it's daunting and involves hard work and pressure. Now look at the other side:
1. It might get you out of the house, and relieve some of the stress that you're feeling about being isolated and imprisoned at home.
2. It will allow you to assess your level of interest in the subject. You might find that, after years of thinking you really want to work with kids, actually doing so leaves you so frustrated you can't stand it. That way, you don't waste six years getting a graduate degree you can't bear to use.
3. It's a low impact kind of a way to explore a range of interests, without making a huge investment.
4. It can offer a reason to use your mind. There are a lot of intellectual activities with online components, so you don't have to leave your house to contribute to something that interests you.
5. You'll be doing good for someone, which usually makes me feel better.
OK, 'nuf sed.
Lecture over. Go forth and fulfill yourself!
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 25, 2004, at 0:20:27
In reply to Re: Racer Seal Of Approval » Fallen4myT, posted by Racer on March 24, 2004, at 19:03:14
LOL I wonder what all you would have said. I am a very curious person lol....So here you write out *a thoughtful and great reply all making perfect sense*,,thank you...but...you know what my looney mind went to? ...well maybe I could meet some nice wealthy dude and leave the husband.See what I am up against ? :P
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 25, 2004, at 11:49:35
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 17:37:48
I've been working on it for 9 months now. It is so hard to break though.
Posted by coral on March 25, 2004, at 20:30:15
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » coral, posted by Fallen4myT on March 24, 2004, at 0:16:04
Posted by coral on March 25, 2004, at 20:31:14
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » coral, posted by fallsfall on March 24, 2004, at 8:17:24
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 25, 2004, at 20:54:08
In reply to Re: Self Depreciating » Fallen4myT, posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 25, 2004, at 11:49:35
Well it seems like it would be..for me, we jump all over..work on this work on that so it is on hold now.
This is the end of the thread.
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