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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 147. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 19:03:04
> Still...it is fun to imagine myself brave enough to either 1) ask those questions or 2) admit I looked at the Joy of Sex (the Nuns would get me).
>
I must confess that it was my friend who had the nerve to buy it. But my Mom bought us Playgirl and offered to answer any questions we had. Talk about taking all the fun out of sex. (smile) My mom was a brilliant disciplinarian. She also gave me absolutely no curfew and let my boyfriend and I hang out in my bedroom because she "trusted" me.No wonder I was a virgin when I married. :)
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:55
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:39:24
In reply to KAREN KAY!!!!!!, posted by Elle2021 on January 14, 2004, at 17:42:42
But Elle, do you think he thinks about me? Now I'm curious to take this just a teenie tiny step further and ask. Is that bad? *Typing ever so carefully like it's a secret I don't want anyone else to hear....shhhhh* But, everyone else, feel free to respond as well....
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:41:40
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
Dinah, I actually have a copy of the blasted, outdated book sitting on my book shelf. Gathering dust is about all it is good for now. And let me tell you about those pictures. Well, maybe I shouldn't.....
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:45:10
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » crushedout, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:21:28
Psssst. Karen. I forgot to congratulate you. :)
I got furious with my therapist once for recommending the book "For Yourself : The Fulfillment of Female Sexuality", which proved that he never listened to a word I said. For Yourself was never a problem. I needed a book called "With Another", or maybe "How to Have Sex, Without Running Screaming from the Room".
That makes how many of us with a sexual aversion problem? We should form a club...
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:05:44
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:45:10
I know the reason for my sexual aversion. I'm a wildcat when there's no emotional attachment. MEOW! It's all about control, or lack thereof. What would the name of our club be? I'm thinking and I'll get back to you on that one.
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 20:23:27
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:05:44
Chuckle. Well, I'm never a wildcat. It seems to have been born and bred in me. With no explanation that I can see.
Posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 20:29:58
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Joslynn, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 17:17:16
Karen, you asked me: "I see your concern with him telling me, but in his eyes, telling me was just reinforcing the fact that you don't need permission to think about sex with other people, JUST TO THINK ABOUT IT. That's what I'm thinking he was doing. Is that boundary crossing?"
Well, since you asked, I don't think it's a boundary crossing for him to say "you don't need permission to think about sex with other people" blah blah and talk about it in a general way.
I do, however, think it was a boundary crossing from him to tell you that he sometimes fantasizes about clients when he masturbates. (He did say that literally, right?) That's completely different than talking about fantasies theoretically.
My understanding was that therapists etc are not supposed to disclose very personal details about their lives, especially about their sex lives. Also, I don't think they are supposed to disclose fantasies or dreams about patients. I'm sure I have read this somewhere, but could not tell you where.
And also, I don't think that this means he would ever make a pass at you or anything that blatant. My concern isn't anything that obvious, but more that he has stepped out of a professional/healer role and in some way is enjoying the fantasies that both of you have...
I don't think it's wrong for him to masturbate about patients, but for him to tell a patient that...well that's weird, to me, it gets in a zone that worried me a bit. Personally, I would not want my shrink to talk about his masturbation fantasies at all, whether they involved me, Claudi Schiffer, or the Fed Ex guy!
But I am glad you are not upset with what I said. I do not have the sexual issues you talked about (though I have plenty of other issues!), so maybe his honesty is helping you in a way I cannot understand.
SIgned, Bessie (Neiggghhhh!)
(That was supposed to be a horse noise. I thought Bessie was a horse, not a cow.)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 14, 2004, at 20:32:16
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 20:23:27
Holy cow! I know that sex is something that needs to come up (no pun intended)in my sessions one of these days, but I can't bear to bring it up. My T actually said, "I am aware that you made reference to sexual issues earlier, and I didn't respond. I want you to know that I am colluding with at this moment in letting that go."
So basically, he was saying, I think, "I know you need to talk about this, but I won't make you until you are ready."
Karen Kay, you are SO far ahead of me! I'll have to see if I can channel you one day in session and be brave.
g
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:50:14
In reply to sexual boundary crossing » Karen_kay, posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 20:29:58
I agree that Bessie is a horse and that is why you so woaaaa! To slow her down....But, back to the important topic at hand..... (And thanks for the humor...I find it very important to reassure me that there are no hard feelings and such.)
I can see your point. And I do delight in the fact that I get answers to my questions. However, I'm not having any type of sexual feelings towards my therapist, nor would I ever sleep with him. I know this isn't the issue. I suppose the issue is if he is crossing a boundary. The odd thing is, when he said that he recently had a birthday I remarked, "Why didn't you tell me, I would have sent a card?" He said, "That would be crossing a boundary. You shouldn't know my birthday for a reason. Just like I don't have pictures of my wife up because you may compare yourself to her, ect..." So, he's strict about some boundaries....I see your point. I think that he is honestly trying to reinforce to me that fantasies and masturbation, ect are not something to be avoided or written off as bad. If he were to somehow avoid the question then I would get the impression that I was bad for asking about a "bad" subject. My aversion to sex is so bad in fact that I (I can't believe I'm admitting this AGHHHHH!!!!!) can't even touch myself. And it has to do with childhood trauma. The only way that I can seriously discuss sex is with negative terms such as dirty or bad. (When I told him that I thought about him when I masturbated, the way I said it at first was, "I have bad thoughts about you." It actually threw him off and was quite cute. He replied, "Do you think about killing me?" Wait a minute, is he just a smart a** like me? :)
So, I think by avoiding the question, in a way would be reinforcing, in my head, that having thoughts about another person was wrong?????? I don't know??? Someone else....Help me defend my shrink..Please!!!!!
Posted by EmmyS on January 14, 2004, at 21:37:03
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing » Joslynn, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:50:14
Wow. Personally I believe it is inappropriate, for a therapist to discuss any aspect of their private sex life with a patient. Most especially with a curious opposite sex patient. No exceptions - it's a boundary crossed. He can always use examples of other people, generalize, fabricate even, to make his point. He does not disclose his masturbation practices.
I also think it is very dangerous to his own professional life and his ability to successfully negotiate boundaries (see above!) when he to allows himself to include patients in his mastabatory fantasies. To actually tell you that is astounding.
I realize he is young, but any graduate would know these common sense concepts. If he were in a college internship setting, and this occurred - he would be kicked out of the program.
I know that's not what you wanted to hear...but you asked for feedback. He seriously needs to talk to his supervisor....but I imagine he won't.
Em
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 21:38:25
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 17:07:35
think: to have as an intention
fantasize: to indulge in reverie : create or develop imaginative and often fantastic views or ideas; or to portray in the mind.Now, I'm not big on literal meanings at all or anything like that, but he's not actually thinking about having sex with me or another client, he's merely fantasizing about it. And he never once hinted at or mentioned me. I was never given the impression that he would ever think about me, and I assure you I don't have a low self image, can't you tell by my posts :)(I rather hate it when people get all technical on me...I'm sorry to do this...Please forgive me...)
I must say I was a bit jealous when your therapist gave you that cd (Oh, I hope I'm right here, that was you right?). I too don't mind inappropriate. I'm rather inappropriate at times. Well, come to think of it, most of the time :) It's not that I'm defending his behavior. It's just that I don't necesarily see it as inappropriate, in my eyes. He swears about as frequently as I do as well. Is that bad? Boundaries vary from therapist to therapist and I would guess from client to client and I appreciate his honesty and straightforwardness (is that one word? :) I need to start using the spell checker!) in this situation. I sincerely didn't take it as a come-on of any sort. And trust me, I take a glance as a come-on!
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 21:41:14
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing » Joslynn, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:50:14
I'll say this, Karen. I strongly suspect that when he gets a few more years under his belt, he won't be quite as forthcoming. He sounds like he might get a bit flustered from time to time. So if you like his style, and are glad he answered your questions honestly, be happy you got a just barely 29 year old therapist.
In a few years he'll be gently asking why you are asking that question and what you imagine the answer to be and what it would mean to you if he did fantasize about his clients.
Which is not a criticism of him. I think it's great that you were able to ask a straight question and get a straight answer. Goodness knows most of us wonder in one way or another whether our therapists think about us. You sure got an answer to that. :)
(But you said in a previous post that you'll keep an eye out for boundary crossings - probably not a bad idea.)
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 21:56:29
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 21:41:14
Goodness! I was scared for a while that my therapist might have to say bye bye or something over me asking a silly question. Sheeew! I feel better now. I appreciate an honest answer more than a game of cat and mouse. Now that I can't stand. Maybe that question was a bit risque, but my friends in Babbleland did want to know and who better to ask than yours truly? And besides, I kinda figured he would answer. Not because he is inappropriate, just because he doesn't feed me crap and he doesn't shy away from the hard questions. And maybe a little because I know how to get him flustered :) Does that make me mean or manipulative? Naaaaa....
Posted by Speaker on January 14, 2004, at 22:12:47
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 21:56:29
Good for you!!!!!!! You asked and he answered...wow, I think thats great. Is your T a psychologist or MSW or counselor...all of these have different boundries. I find it interesting that there are as many different opinions as there are people answering. I'm like you...when I ask I think they should be honest and answer. This idea of them being a blank slate is a bunch of crap. If I don't have a relationship of some kind why would I talk at all? Just because they have a degree of some kind means nothing to me...its all about who they are. I would have a hard time with someone 29 since he could be my son (almost) but I think his openness would be drawing to me. I hope he doesn't change just because some people have the opinion its the best for all people.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 22:25:04
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing, posted by Speaker on January 14, 2004, at 22:12:47
He's a psychologist, and a cute one at that. That's the only reason he made the "cute" comment. Because I tell him he's cute. And he is! But, I assure you I'm only attracted to him in the way that any lady my age would be :)
Posted by All Done on January 14, 2004, at 22:42:16
In reply to Re: sexual boundary crossing » Joslynn, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:50:14
>Someone else....Help me defend my shrink..Please!!!!!
Okay, Karen, I'll jump in. Perhaps I won't have the most popular view of what your therapist said to you (which is unusual for me since I generally stick with the mainstream), but I'll give it a shot. Whoever responds, be gentle with me if you don't agree.
I think what your therapist said was perfectly fine. I always keep in my mind that both people in the therapeutic relationship are human. For my therapist to treat me as a "cookie cutter" of a human would be very disappointing to me. I have hoped and continue to hope that he will not always follow the prescribed formulas that he perhaps read about in college. I want him to know what works best for *me*. Keep in mind, I am by no way suggesting that there isn't a guideline of boundaries that he should follow, but I believe the definitive line isn't always in the same place for each person. We are all so different, have many different issues, and respond to our therapists in a multitude of ways. Think of what it would be like if we all had the same therapist - Mr. Bean, perhaps : ). I bet you we would all have extremely different accounts of our sessions and in the end, report radical differences in our therapy experiences and outcomes. If we didn’t, I believe many of us would not consider the experience as “successful”. I know I want my therapy to be just for me and I want it to work for me. In order for that to happen, my therapist should learn and know what I need from him. IMHO, Karen, your therapist knew exactly what you needed from him and knew when you needed it, too. Good for him!
I hope my rambling makes sense. One example I have from my own therapy isn’t necessarily something I would consider pushing the “boundary line”, but I think some may view it as inappropriate, yet, I feel it helped me. Here are the details (and, gosh, I’m hoping my therapist doesn’t read this site…) My mom has some issues with her own mental health and I have some issues with how she raised me. So, here I am, 31 years after she gave birth, on antidepressants and seeing a therapist. Not that that’s a big deal to me. I’m glad I’m taking care of myself. The problem is, I feel like this could be a genetic thing and, even if it’s not, I believe her inability to take care of herself led to her not being able to take care of me very well. So, to make a long story even longer, because of this I’m very worried about how my young son will “turn out”. I was mentioning this to my therapist, yet again, and he said, in a totally joking manner, “well, what difference does it make. You’re going to [insert vulgar word here] him up anyway!” We both laughed and I felt a bunch of different things which included, 1. I’m worrying way too much, 2. My therapist understands my sense of humor, 3. My therapist “gets” me, and 4. I’m a good mom and I’m *not* going to screw my kid up. IMO, all good things to feel. Could/should he have said this to another client? Maybe, maybe not. Would another client have been offended or taken him seriously? Perhaps. But did it help *me* to bond with him? Yep. Did it help *my* therapy? Yep.
You inspire me to be open and honest with my therapist, Karen. Thanks!
All Done
Posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 23:40:46
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:41:40
I'm all a twitter...
Posted by Elle2021 on January 14, 2004, at 23:47:14
In reply to Re: KAREN KAY!!!!!! » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:39:24
> But Elle, do you think he thinks about me? Now I'm curious to take this just a teenie tiny step further and ask. Is that bad? *Typing ever so carefully like it's a secret I don't want anyone else to hear....shhhhh* But, everyone else, feel free to respond as well....
Hmm, I think the answer is yes, he probably does think about you. Do I think it's wrong? I'm not sure. I mean, like he said, what goes on in your head is your business. Now, I don't know if you should go in next time and say, "Do you think about *me* while you masturbate?" I'm not sure if you would really want the honest answer. I'm also not sure if you were planning to do that. Just checking! I can never tell with you! :)
Elle
Posted by DaisyM on January 15, 2004, at 1:22:21
In reply to Are we all cookies? (long) » Karen_kay, posted by All Done on January 14, 2004, at 22:42:16
Very good message. I also have had the same worry...about screwing up my kids, especially the youngest. I told my Therapist that if they ended up in therapy at 40, I want them to talk about their DAD, not me! LOL -- He basically said what your's did -- so what if they need therapy because of you at some point? They will probably say, "my mom was too perfect and never showed vulnerability, etc."
You just can't win!
I told him I was glad he thought I was perfect. He responded by saying that he didn't say that was a good thing!
*sheesh!*
Posted by Karen_kay on January 15, 2004, at 7:20:07
In reply to Hey, you found a BD present for me! » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 23:40:46
Happy Birthday Daisy. But, what is that birthday present you were suggesting? I'm genuinly confused. I hope you have a great day today and DON'T work! That's an order! :) Also, post if you need to hun.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 15, 2004, at 7:22:30
In reply to Re: Are we all cookies? (long) » All Done, posted by DaisyM on January 15, 2004, at 1:22:21
My therapist always says he *knows* I'm not perfect, as much as I try to appear. Isn't that a deal-breaker? I mean pointing out my flaws and all?
Posted by Karen_kay on January 15, 2004, at 7:33:04
In reply to Are we all cookies? (long) » Karen_kay, posted by All Done on January 14, 2004, at 22:42:16
Thank you thank you thank you! :)
I agree and also think he handles me in ways that he doesn't typically handle other clients. And I hardly doubt that it is because he's "attracted" to me or for reasons similar to that, though I am quite attractive :) As everyone can tell, I have a knack for asking somewhat intruisive questions. And when he answers, my trust towards him skyrockets! And he's aware of that as well! Also, there isn't ANY danger of me sleeping with my therapist. I assure everyone here. Nor do I think there's a danger of him becoming remotely interested in entertaining that possibility, if it even is one.
I just appreciate the fact that he doesn't always ask, "Why do you want to know the answer to that questin, ect." when we've been working together and it's fairly obvious.
I do like all the mixed reviews though!
I sometimes wonder if when I have children, if I'll cause themto be in therapy. I only hope if they are that they'll have a good therapist and they don't ask their therapist the type of questions I do. I'd have to punish them, regardless of age!
Posted by Penny on January 15, 2004, at 8:30:48
In reply to Re: Are we all cookies? (long) » All Done, posted by Karen_kay on January 15, 2004, at 7:33:04
> I sometimes wonder if when I have children, if I'll cause themto be in therapy. I only hope if they are that they'll have a good therapist and they don't ask their therapist the type of questions I do. I'd have to punish them, regardless of age!
It's funny - I mentioned to my former T that her kids were fortunate to have a mom who was a therapist - that perhaps it would keep them from needing to go to therapy one day. Her response was that therapist's kids probably need therapy more than anyone else!
And now I'm thinking of becoming a therapist...hmmm...perhaps I shouldn't have children.
P
Posted by Speaker on January 15, 2004, at 8:32:26
In reply to Re: Are we all cookies? (long) » All Done, posted by Karen_kay on January 15, 2004, at 7:33:04
When I told my T I thought my kids would end up in therapy because of me. He laughed and said well I don't have a college fund for my kids I started a therapy fund...I thought it was great!
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