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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 147. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
All your questions answered, via Karen!
Does your therapist fantasize about his clients, hmmmm? Well, I had a WONDERFUL session today. I had a nightmare where my therapist told me he was dying. Today we talked about that. He thinks that when he told me he was dying it meant that the illusion of the crush I had on him was dying. Also, the illusion of him being my new father was also dying. So, we are working towards a healthy attachment. Also, he told me it is fine with him to be needy.Now Ladies, the fun part of my session. I said, "Ok, I have a few questions for you, and I want you to be honest. First of all how old are you? I think you could easily be between 26 and 40. Now, what is it?" He said he was 28 and then said no, wait I had a birthday in December so I'm 29. I pointed out that I'm not the only one with a faulty memory. (So, is he a Sagittarius or Capricorn???? Good Grief!!!)
I then said, "Do you ever fantasize about your clients?" (I was sure to point out that I didn't mean ME specifically) He said, "Uh,, um, er, well, I'm going to answer that only so that you know it is OK to fantasize about whoever you choose. Yes, I do fantasize about my clients sometimes when I masturbate, as well as other people that I've met or been with." He then went on to ask if that's what I meant by the question and about "fantasizing." It didn't lead to a long discussion of any sort, thank god!I also talked about how his personal feelings came into play and he said, "Well sometimes when a client or you walk in and look pretty I may think it, but then I dismiss the thought and get on with therapy. You're beautiful (he's sweet isn't he?? :) and I'm cute but it doesn't affect therapy. Sometimes when you become resistant I'm frustrated because the approach I'm using isn't working, but I realize that you're resistant because you don't want to "feel" the things that make you anxious. So, I have to use a different approach. I'm not frustrated with you, I'm frustrated that the approach isn't working."
It was a wonderful session. He actually told me to be needy and to call him more often. I told him what a wonderful job he's doing and that if I didn't think he was doing a great job, I wouldn't give him such a hard time.
One note though, I was eating cashews, as I didn't have time for lunch and I PICKED MY TEETH. I pointed it out, apologized and put them away. He said he didn't even notice because he was busy talking. UGH! I'm so rude. Strike one for Karen... *Hiding my head in shame... Will you guys forgive me PLEASE?????
Posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 14:52:26
In reply to Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
There is absolutely NO WAY I could ever have asked those questions. You are way brave.
It sounds like you've also had a trust break through. You CAN be needy with him, he DOES want you to call him. I think that is really great. Stay focused. Use this momentum!
Posted by Penny on January 14, 2004, at 15:03:43
In reply to Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
OMG!!!! Nope - NO WAY could I see him as a therapist! He is TOO YOUNG!!!! I'm 27 - he's not much older than I am! Not that I won't probably, at some point, be older than my T, but 29 is so YOUNG!!!!!
Wow...now that I've got that off my chest....
sorry - I could never ask a young male therapist a question like that. My older female T? Sure - b/c there's no possibility of my being sexually attracted to her or vice versa. Not that a 29-year-old attractive male therapist would be attracted to me either - I don't think people get attracted to me in 'that way', so that's not the point. But with my T it would be like talking to my mom in a way, but better, b/c I can be even more honest with my T than with my mom (mind you, my mom has always been pretty open about a lot of things - I don't think I've ever been afraid to ask her something that personal...).
Anyway - I guess he did prove his point to you that it's okay to fantasize, and I applaud you on actually asking him, but I would never want to know that! I would imagine it to be true without ever asking, but I wouldn't want verbal confirmation...
Though, I must say Ms. Karen - you make me want to read your post to my pdoc on Friday night to see what he says. Though it would be entirely too embarrassing. I see him as a dad-figure, and he's older (50) and I can say a lot of things to him, but I don't know that I could ever even use the word masturbation in front of him! Nope...
Though I think my T would think I had made major headway if I said anything about that in front of her.
Sigh.
Karen - you are too much...
:-))
P
Posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 15:37:37
In reply to Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
Oh my goodness, I can't believe he even mentioned the fact that he MASTURBATES to you! (It almost seems like he's crossing I line, actually, but I find it delightful.)
Holy cow. I'm impressed, with you, with him, the whole thing. It's inspiring.
(Why is this only for ladies, though? I'm not a lady. Can I still engage in this conversation? And what about the poor men?)
> All your questions answered, via Karen!
> Does your therapist fantasize about his clients, hmmmm? Well, I had a WONDERFUL session today. I had a nightmare where my therapist told me he was dying. Today we talked about that. He thinks that when he told me he was dying it meant that the illusion of the crush I had on him was dying. Also, the illusion of him being my new father was also dying. So, we are working towards a healthy attachment. Also, he told me it is fine with him to be needy.
>
> Now Ladies, the fun part of my session. I said, "Ok, I have a few questions for you, and I want you to be honest. First of all how old are you? I think you could easily be between 26 and 40. Now, what is it?" He said he was 28 and then said no, wait I had a birthday in December so I'm 29. I pointed out that I'm not the only one with a faulty memory. (So, is he a Sagittarius or Capricorn???? Good Grief!!!)
> I then said, "Do you ever fantasize about your clients?" (I was sure to point out that I didn't mean ME specifically) He said, "Uh,, um, er, well, I'm going to answer that only so that you know it is OK to fantasize about whoever you choose. Yes, I do fantasize about my clients sometimes when I masturbate, as well as other people that I've met or been with." He then went on to ask if that's what I meant by the question and about "fantasizing." It didn't lead to a long discussion of any sort, thank god!
>
> I also talked about how his personal feelings came into play and he said, "Well sometimes when a client or you walk in and look pretty I may think it, but then I dismiss the thought and get on with therapy. You're beautiful (he's sweet isn't he?? :) and I'm cute but it doesn't affect therapy. Sometimes when you become resistant I'm frustrated because the approach I'm using isn't working, but I realize that you're resistant because you don't want to "feel" the things that make you anxious. So, I have to use a different approach. I'm not frustrated with you, I'm frustrated that the approach isn't working."
>
> It was a wonderful session. He actually told me to be needy and to call him more often. I told him what a wonderful job he's doing and that if I didn't think he was doing a great job, I wouldn't give him such a hard time.
>
> One note though, I was eating cashews, as I didn't have time for lunch and I PICKED MY TEETH. I pointed it out, apologized and put them away. He said he didn't even notice because he was busy talking. UGH! I'm so rude. Strike one for Karen... *Hiding my head in shame... Will you guys forgive me PLEASE?????
Posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 15:53:16
In reply to Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
Karen, I hope you don't mind my saying this, but I think your therapist didn't answer your question in a professional way. Yes, you asked, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think his answer was out of line. I don't think I would want a therp or pdoc to admit to me that he masturbates about patients.
If you want, search for "boundary violations" or "boundary crossings" plus maybe the words "fantasies," "dreams" or "self-disclosure" in google or your favorite search engine...? To see if he is getting a bit slippery in his boundaries?
I just couldn't bit my tongue on this one. You are insightful, funny and brave, but sometimes your therapist worries me, sorry.
Posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 16:01:49
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 15:53:16
Karen, I kind of have to agree with Joslyn, although if I were you, I'd be tickled pink by his boundary-crossing (as I am whenever my T gets fuzzy boundaries also -- doesn't mean it's a good idea for them to do it). Especially when you look at what he divulged to you about his masturbation fantasies, the fact that he basically said he would want to sleep with you under other circumstances, and then said not only should you feel free to call him, but that he *wants* you to call him. It sounds really over the line, actually.> Karen, I hope you don't mind my saying this, but I think your therapist didn't answer your question in a professional way. Yes, you asked, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think his answer was out of line. I don't think I would want a therp or pdoc to admit to me that he masturbates about patients.
>
> If you want, search for "boundary violations" or "boundary crossings" plus maybe the words "fantasies," "dreams" or "self-disclosure" in google or your favorite search engine...? To see if he is getting a bit slippery in his boundaries?
>
> I just couldn't bit my tongue on this one. You are insightful, funny and brave, but sometimes your therapist worries me, sorry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:21:28
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 16:01:49
the fact that he basically said he would want to sleep with you under other circumstances, and then said not only should you feel free to call him, but that he *wants* you to call him. It sounds really over the line, actually.
***Wooooo! Slow down, Bessie! He didn't hint at the fact that he wanted to sleep with me. He didn't EVER refer to me. He only referred to clients. And didn't say anything about sleeping with them or even fantasizing about sleeping with them.
The reason he answered the questions is because I have REAL issues with sex. And even fantasizing aobut sex. I feel overwhelming guilt when I fantasize about people. And I have an aversion to sex. But, enough about me.
He never once said or implicated that he wanted to sleep with me or any other client. NEVER!
And the fact that he encouraged me to call him is not relevant to this matter. It has to do with the idea that I don't want to be needy. And I want to keep him at arm's length, much as I do with other men in my life. It has to do with trauma that I have suffered in the past. It was discussed earlier in the session, as well as after the "fantasy" conversation.Please don't interpret this post as nasty or mean in any way. I don't want it to come across as that way. I just want to sort of "set the record straight."
I could see how this conversation could be seen as a violation in boundaries to some. But I tend to be crass as well. And I like to have my questions answered. There is a good reaon for questions I ask, though sometimes it appears to be trivial. Much like the previous conversation I had with him where I told him I thought about him when I masturbate, it seemed maybe he crossed a boundary by giving me permission and saying it was consensual. But, I had my first orgasm. Maybe he isn't always conventional, but darn it I like him! And I don't have a crush on him anymore. So, he isn't feeding some fantasy that "maybe one day we'll be together."
I think he's doing alright! And I like him just fine. In fact, I like him a whole lot, and I told him so for the first time today :)
Posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 16:31:00
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » crushedout, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:21:28
> ***Wooooo! Slow down, Bessie! He didn't hint at the fact that he wanted to sleep with me. He didn't EVER refer to me. He only referred to clients. And didn't say anything about sleeping with them or even fantasizing about sleeping with them.
ok, karen, but look at what you wrote here:
"Well sometimes when a client or you walk in and look pretty I may think it, but then I dismiss the thought and get on with therapy. You're beautiful (he's sweet isn't he?? :) and I'm cute but it doesn't affect therapy.
that's the part i was referring to. you're right he doesn't say he wants to sleep with you. that was taking it a few steps further than necessary. but the suggestion of attraction to you is definitely there. i don't really have a problem with it (like i said, i would love to sleep with my t) but it doesn't seem very kosher.
please don't call me bessie. makes me feel like a cow.
Posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 16:48:29
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 16:31:00
I thought you said that he told you "Yes, I do fantasize about my clients sometimes when I masturbate."
So, to me, I would read that as, he is fantasizing about sleeping with them as he does that. I mean, isn't that, er, what people usually think of when they say that they fantasize to masturbate?
And I know he didn't say you specifically, but he said clients in general, and you are a client. Then later on, he referred to you as beautiful.
So, if I were you, I would just naturally assume that I was one of the clients in the fantasies? I mean, since he's a guy, he would probably fantasize about the young beautiful clients like you, not the pudgy middle-aged guy, right? (No offense to middle aged guys.)
Also, that's ok if you are crass as you say. That is completely fine. But as a professional, should he be crass as well? Should he always match your tone? That is what I wonder...
But don't believe us...do a search or maybe there are some books out about it?
Anyway, I'm sorry if I have upset you, so I won't say anything else. Just food for thought.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:59:11
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 16:31:00
I apologize. I don't always write as well as I speak..
"Well sometimes when a client or you walk in and look pretty I may think it, but then I dismiss the thought and get on with therapy. You're beautiful (he's sweet isn't he?? :) and I'm cute but it doesn't affect therapy.
think "IT" as in being pretty, not IT as in sleeping with a client. that's what he meant and said. I wish I could just talk sometimes instead of write. And that was later in the conversation....
I'm sorry about the bessie comment.... I didn't eman anything by it... Really, promise :) And I'm not upset in the least, promise :) I think he's handsome, but I couldn't sleep with him, as much as I talk about it. I have a real fear of sex with people I know. Odd, huh? I know hwy and am trying to work past it. But, it is hard work.
Posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 17:02:14
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » crushedout, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:59:11
Posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 17:07:35
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » crushedout, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:59:11
I still think that taken as a whole, he's admitted to being attracted to you, and/or thinking about having sex with his clients (as Joslynn pointed out) (most likely both) and that does not seem particularly helpful or appropriate. Nor does the fact that it doesn't bother you make it less inappropriate, IMO. But I *like* inappropriate, as I've said, and you have no need to defend your T from me.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 17:17:16
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Joslynn on January 14, 2004, at 16:48:29
Oh girlie (is that ok??), you haven't offended me in the least...Please continue to post....
He never gave the impression that he fantasized about me. He only said that he has fantasized about clients. I wouldn't even suspect that he has fantasized about me, honestly. Possibly, maybe? I don't know.I truly understand your concern and I do watch for signs of certain boundary crossings. But I don't see this as one. I respect the fact that he answered my question because I have an aversion to sex. And this is his way of reinforcing the fact that it is ok to fantasize about whoever you chose.
And I fantasize abot sleeping with people that I would never actually sleep with, or even think about acting upon those urges, you know? I mean those fantasizes are your own to keep. I see your concern with him telling me, butin his eyes, telling me was just reinforcing the fact that you don't need permission to think about sex with other people, JUST TO THINK ABOUT IT. That's what I'm thinking he was doing. Is that boundary crossing?
And he has told me on several occassions that I'm beautiful, to boost my self esteem. And I know I'm a beautiful lady. So, to refer to me as beautiful wasn't reinforcing that he was "thinking" about m4e in particular. That was later in the conversation when I asked if personal feelings get in the way of therapy. Personal feelings as in frustration with clients. Times like this I wish I had a tape recorder to play back, you know?? :) So I could remember exactly what happened. But, I think what he was saying at that time was that he couldn't get distracted because someone looked nice on a particular day, not that he wanted to have sex with them.. It wasn't said at that point in the conversation. It was eons later and eons before that conversation.
I just appreciate his honesty and candor. I read a lot of posts where others can't be so frank and their therapists aren't either. I'm glad that I can be. I'm glad that I'm really beginning to trust him to be honest with me and that I can be honest with him. But don't worry, if I feel that he's openly friendly or too open with compliments, I'll let him know.
I just wonder if he's thinking about me tonight... And that's a joke of course :)
Posted by Elle2021 on January 14, 2004, at 17:42:42
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by crushedout on January 14, 2004, at 17:07:35
Oh my!! I don't know what to say! I WISH I was that brave. For the record, I don't think he crossed a boundary in the least. You asked a frank question and got a frank answer. That's what I would have wanted (unless it's about a diagnosis...) Well, I can't believe he admitted to masturbating (I can't even type that word without blushing), and while thinking about clients. Makes me wonder about my darling doctor. I mean darling in a purely innocent way. You know of course, I also have issues with sex. I am just speechless. I was just busting out with laughter!! I think thats just great that you got an answer. :)
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 18:16:58
In reply to Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 14:32:04
You are so funny, Karen. I'll bet he enjoys having you as a client. I wouldn't ever ask my therapist that. But of course my therapist doesn't fantasize about his female clients... or movie stars.... or his wife. He never ever ever masturbates. And he has never had sex in his life.
On the other hand, that's what makes it so easy to talk to him about sex. He knows *about* it of course, but not by personal knowledge.
rofl.
(Don't ever anyone disillusion me. I won't be able to talk about sex with him anymore.)
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 18:31:40
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 18:16:58
That being said, I suppose I should add that my therapist would never ever talk about himself and sex in the same sentence. I might ask him things like do people *really* enjoy sex??!!! Because it seems totally incomprehensible to me. And he'll answer with a smile that most people do enjoy it. But he would never say that *he* enjoyed it. He allows me my fantasy that he is neuter in gender.
Although once I was telling him about giggling over "The Joy of Sex" as a teen, and he was surprised that my girlfriend had just been able to buy it at the bookstore, no problem. I mentioned that there hadn't been photos, just drawings. And he mentioned some color drawings or something that I didn't remember. He grinned and said he did. So I guess when he was much much younger sex might have crossed his mind just once. But that was a loooong time ago. I'm sure he hasn't thought of it once since. :)
Posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 19:03:04
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 18:31:40
I feel somewhat cheated. I spent today talking about my career...I'd much rather have been talking about sex.
Ok, that was a lie. The one time we went anywhere near the subject I turned bright red and looked at the floor.
Still...it is fun to imagine myself brave enough to either 1) ask those questions or 2) admit I looked at the Joy of Sex (the Nuns would get me).
God, I'm pathetic.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:26:21
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 19:03:04
How in the world I forgot it is BEYOND me, but......(drum roll please)......
He was talking and somehow he mentioned something and this slipped out...."and that's why you are one of my favorite clients." I didn't even ask, and I said, "I've been trying to get you to say that forever, why did you just now admit it?" He admitted that I walked into it! YAHOO!!!! I didn't even ask him!!! He just said it! Of course, I always knew it. I mean, come on ladies, how could I not be one of his favorite clients?
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:28:55
In reply to Forgot the best Part!!!, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:26:21
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by DaisyM on January 14, 2004, at 19:03:04
> Still...it is fun to imagine myself brave enough to either 1) ask those questions or 2) admit I looked at the Joy of Sex (the Nuns would get me).
>
I must confess that it was my friend who had the nerve to buy it. But my Mom bought us Playgirl and offered to answer any questions we had. Talk about taking all the fun out of sex. (smile) My mom was a brilliant disciplinarian. She also gave me absolutely no curfew and let my boyfriend and I hang out in my bedroom because she "trusted" me.No wonder I was a virgin when I married. :)
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:55
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:39:24
In reply to KAREN KAY!!!!!!, posted by Elle2021 on January 14, 2004, at 17:42:42
But Elle, do you think he thinks about me? Now I'm curious to take this just a teenie tiny step further and ask. Is that bad? *Typing ever so carefully like it's a secret I don't want anyone else to hear....shhhhh* But, everyone else, feel free to respond as well....
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 19:41:40
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!!, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:34:29
Dinah, I actually have a copy of the blasted, outdated book sitting on my book shelf. Gathering dust is about all it is good for now. And let me tell you about those pictures. Well, maybe I shouldn't.....
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:45:10
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » crushedout, posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 16:21:28
Psssst. Karen. I forgot to congratulate you. :)
I got furious with my therapist once for recommending the book "For Yourself : The Fulfillment of Female Sexuality", which proved that he never listened to a word I said. For Yourself was never a problem. I needed a book called "With Another", or maybe "How to Have Sex, Without Running Screaming from the Room".
That makes how many of us with a sexual aversion problem? We should form a club...
Posted by Karen_kay on January 14, 2004, at 20:05:44
In reply to Re: Ok Ladies, Listen UP!!!! » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2004, at 19:45:10
I know the reason for my sexual aversion. I'm a wildcat when there's no emotional attachment. MEOW! It's all about control, or lack thereof. What would the name of our club be? I'm thinking and I'll get back to you on that one.
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