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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
I haven't done this before...I'm really really angry at my Therapist but I'm not sure why. I've had the experience of emotional aftermath, usually a few hours later or the next day. I get overwhelmed or sad, or I panic about what I said.
Today, driving home, I realized I was mad. So I'm trying to sort out why. My best guess is that we ended badly (for me) because I spent most of the session on how demanding life is right now, and on how I had a melt-down yesterday about it all. We talked about old memories and we talked about all of the individual issues that are causing stress. He asked me how it felt to have him go through all of this with me. I said something stupid like fine, it helps. He reminded me that I could say anything I wanted in therapy, it was Ok not to be nice or understanding, etc. This was my space to just let it out. Ok, so, so-far, so-good. Then, time was up.
He didn't say, "for coping, try this or that". He didn't say "call me if you need me." He didn't say, "it will be Ok, you'll get through this."
He asked a question about my insurance and reconfirmed appointments for next week.
So, essentially I had to switch from the "I can't do all of this, watch me fall apart" person to the "I'm an organized, together" person who knows about insurance and can make appointment decisions. In 22 seconds.
I feel like he doesn't care about how hard this weekend is going to be. I feel like just a paycheck (first time I've felt that way).
And I feel like I'm being completely unfair because he didn't really do anything to make me feel that way.
I think I wanted him to either 1) Let me stay in his office all weekend, or 2) make it all better.
I'm still mad at him.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 20:23:34
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
Ouch... It hurts when they don't say the right things at the right time. I remember before I started getting into the hard stuff my therapist was like "You can always call me if you need to," and "I'll always be here" and "We can schedule extra appointments if you need them." But, now that we are getting to the hard things, he's not made any mention of these things again. And I'm left wondering, just how hard does it have to get before he will *start being there*... Maybe that's why I'm not feeling anything during the session... Hmm.. Well, I think you've solved my problem. I'll try to help you now :)
Well first of all, do you really feel like your therapist is there with you, helping you get through all of this? Do you allow him to be there with you? If not, then you should tell him so. Your reply to him was less than enthusiastic. Why? Is it because you don't really feel like he is there? Or do you not allow him to be there to help you? Or do you think you don't need/deserve help? That you should be able to help yourself...
Maybe he didn't realize the extent to your pain. If that's the case, speak up. Tell him. Say, I really need a pick-me-up right now, just a few reassuring words right now, and a question about my insurance isn't quite what I was searching for. Sometimes we are good at hiding how much we are hurting. And we want so much for others to read our minds. Even therapists can't do that (as much as we wish and think they can).
Try to use some coping skills you've learned in the past to get through this weekend. And, I'll be hear this weekend posting. Don't hesitate to post. I'll reply. And try my best to be helpful.
It's OK to be mad at your therapist. Maybe you should discuss it with him at your next session. Let him know that he upset you. That you felt more like a paycheck than a person. If he knows, then he can prevent it from happening in the future.
Posted by fallsfall on December 18, 2003, at 22:10:55
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
You are allowed to be angry at him. It is in your contract.
Boy, can I relate to: I think I wanted him to either 1) Let me stay in his office all weekend, or 2) make it all better. But my therapist won't do those things either.
Did writing the post help at all? You can complain next session. He probably won't change what he's doing, but he'll help you understand better why you want him to change. Aren't they sweet?
Posted by lookdownfish on December 18, 2003, at 22:28:49
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
I can relate. Why don't therapists offer a bit more comfort? Well I suppose maybe because it isn't going to help us in the long run... but it would be so nice to feel a bit more cared for.
Your anger sounds totally healthy, and I think it will be very worthwhile to tell him exactly what you told us.
Posted by Speaker on December 18, 2003, at 23:29:30
In reply to Re: I'm angry - semi-long rant » DaisyM, posted by lookdownfish on December 18, 2003, at 22:28:49
DaisyM,
I can so relate it makes me mad just thinking about you leaving like that! I'm beginning to think these T take a class on pat thing to say. I am in the process of changing T and its the pits but I am a bit wiser this time. When I went to leave the new therapists office he said I will look forward to seeing you Friday...I left mad because thats exactly what the old T would say and I felt like I was getting a PAP and the Dr. says "ok, now relax" what a stupid and pat comment. Obviously, they have not been the one on the table! I am a nurse and I have a quite a few talks to Dr.s about comments that are not appropriate just because they are easy. OK, you got my blood going and I am ranting :). I'm sorry you didn't feel the support you deserve...I mean you sure do pay enough for it! I'm sure I am hypersensitive and I know what he said was no big deal but I still have the right to be MAD...and so do you!!! Why is your weekend going to be so difficult?
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 0:07:04
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
My therapist and I have a semi-ritual about leaving. He generally tells me to call him if I need to. (I think somewhere along the line he discovered that if he invited me to call him, I generally wouldn't need to.) And if it was a particularly upsetting session I ask him if everything is going to be all right, and he answers in the affirmative with as much confidence as he can muster.
Not too long ago he wanted to stop saying everything was going to be all right, but we worked out a compromise instead.
And I get oddly anxious if he forgets to tell me to call if I need him, even though I know I can. He reminds me that even if he doesn't tell me I can, I can anyway. And I can ask him, too.
There's something about an end of session ritual, however small, that helps seal up the wounds and face the real world.
I guess it's like a kid saying bye at preschool. I know my son always had a sequence of events and he would get very upset if we didn't follow them. It's the same way now at bedtime, and before he leaves for school in the morning.
I know we're not kids, but I often feel like one in therapy. Maybe therapists should give some thought to including some rituals in the leavetaking.
Posted by judy1 on December 19, 2003, at 9:39:45
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
I really like getting rid of 'housekeeping' issues right away- payment, drugs, any insurance issues, etc. we don't do the next appt. scheduling until the end of the session, mainly because I'm very unreliable. If you get rid of this stuff early on in the session before you get all emotional, then you don't have to worry about switching from a wreck to business-like at the end. worth a try- judy
Posted by Poet on December 19, 2003, at 9:54:25
In reply to I'm angry - semi-long rant, posted by DaisyM on December 18, 2003, at 18:56:32
Hi Daisy,
It's definitely okay to be angry, just try not to blame yourself for feeling it.
Yesterday, my therapist asked if I was still angry at her for "digging into my childhood." I said no (lie) and she said, "it's okay to tell me when you're angry with me, don't try to spare my feelings and let yours out."
Maybe we should give our therapists the gift of angry rants for Christmas. I see mine on Christmas Eve, so the timing is right. :-).
Poet
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 10:34:49
In reply to Re: I'm angry - semi-long rant » DaisyM, posted by Poet on December 19, 2003, at 9:54:25
I spent a lot of time last night processing all of this -- thank you all for the posts, good questions and great support.
I've moved from angry to that invasive sadness that feeling oh so alone in the world brings.
I've come up with 2 things. My response wasn't rational, it was probably based on my want (need) for someone else to deal with my life for awhile - too much sickness and too much stress. And he didn't. He actually did to me what everyone else does: I have a problem (insurance) could YOU call and fix it for me. And of course, I said yes. It wasn't that this was an inappropriate request, it was just that I didn't expect it from him, right at that moment. I'm sure he didn't realize -- how could he?
The other thing is that I'm sure I'm projecting my anger at all of this on to him. I think. I've been asking myself what I want from him, and what can I realistically expect. I've had this whole conversation about all the unfixable things in my life with him in my head.I went from I'm quitting therapy to I'm cutting back to this is ridiculous, last week I was having a tizzy because he might quit on me! (My fear, not his intention). I'm just so confused.
I don't know. I have to go get my kid from college, the dorms close this morning. I'll think about it some more and try to get clearer. Any experiences with out of proportion anger would be helpful.
-D
Posted by fallsfall on December 19, 2003, at 12:09:13
In reply to From Angry to Sad, posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 10:34:49
My experience with out of proportion [insert emotion here] is that that usually indicates that what you are feeling is "old". That you are feeling the emotion from some incident in the past. Sometimes, I can recognize it and knowing that THIS instance isn't so extreme helps me to deal with it. It definately helps to figure out what it was in your past... Therapists can help with that.
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 15:16:13
In reply to Re: From Angry to Sad » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on December 19, 2003, at 12:09:13
Yeah, but I would have to tell him I was mad in order to have him help me and I haven't decided if I want to do that. I keep thinking by Monday I will have "gotten over it."
It could be stuff from the past since we were talking about it. In fact, we were talking about how some of my simple sweet memories bring on such sadness now because they have become tainted by the other stuff. He asked me if I was angry about that, and I said I couldn't get past the sadness to connect to the anger. Hmmm...
Here is another strange thing, I'm relatively sure I've rewritten some of the session in my head. I did a lot of journaling last night, and when I reread it, it doesn't match what I now remember. For example, I'm remembering him looking bored at one point. But I'm sure I would have written that down. And I know he talked more than he usually does, so I don't think he was bored. I also have been remembering him redirecting the conversation into another area, which he NEVER does, without asking.
Maybe my unconscious telling me I don't want to think about the content of the conversation? I don't know.
So, I guess I should bring all this up, but I feel like a little kid who didn't get her way. Plus it is a Holiday week. *sigh* I feel very alone again. Like I've lost something...
-D
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:19:20
In reply to Re: I'm angry - semi-long rant » DaisyM, posted by judy1 on December 19, 2003, at 9:39:45
If I get up the nerve to tell him I got mad, I'll suggest that as a good change. Thanks for that. It makes perfect sense.
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:24:51
In reply to Re: I'm angry just thinking about YOU!, posted by Speaker on December 18, 2003, at 23:29:30
Maybe we are all hyper-sensitive this time of year.
This week and weekend have been really bad because my husband who is pretty ill, has caught that cold/flu and it is anticipated he will end up in the hosptial this weekend. Plus I haven't done any shopping. Plus I'm suppose to see some of my family Saturday and it gets harder and harder right now, because I'm sorting through so much of the past. My mom says to tell my husband: "just don't be sick" so that we can come over. Now, I know she is kidding, but it feels like only 1/2-kidding, you know?
I, like everyone else, am tired of us not going anyway due to illnes. But, I can't do anything about it and my choices are go and feel guilty or stay and make others mad and miss out. It is really my children who miss out. Anyway (sorry for the rant, obviously I still have a lot pent up!)
This was part of what I wanted my Therapist to make "all better." He seems to be out of fairy dust...
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:28:56
In reply to Re: I'm angry - semi-long rant » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 20:23:34
Karen,
>>Or do you not allow him to be there to help you? Or do you think you don't need/deserve help? That you should be able to help yourself...
You HAVE been reading my posts! I know I do all these things but this time felt different. Like I wanted support but maybe I didn't do a good job asking for it. And, I'm not really sure he didn't give it...It is kind of all muddled up.
Thanks for the support. I will most likely be posting this weekend. I keep trying to shake it off but it is haunting. Like I'm sad because someone died, or moved away. Ugh.
I am, however, planning on baking Therapist cookies tomorrow. Noone will know but me that these gingerbread guys have a secret identity. Maybe I'll work out some of this that way.
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 18:39:05
In reply to Re: I'm angry just thinking about YOU! » Speaker, posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:24:51
I'm sorry about your husband. You have more than enough reason to feel tense right now.
When are they going to issue those therapists their wands so that they can make it all better?
Posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 18:45:10
In reply to Re: I'm angry - semi-long rant » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:28:56
Just don't cook 3 batches! And the question of the day is.... Which part will you eat first? Or, will you eat them at all?
And of course I have been reading your posts. If you don't think you have been doing a good enough job of asking for support, then ask again!
Why don't you think he'd give it? I'm sure he would. I just think you're unsure that you are deserving. But, you are!I called my therapist today to ask for some advice about a grade (I have a 79.666% and wanted to know if I should approach the prof) but he didn't call back. I just left him a message saying "I need some advice." Maybe he's ignoring me. Maybe he's already gone (he did have his holiday message on). Either way, he's useless to me now. By the time he gets back, grades will be posted. Crap! And I'll let him know how useless he is next week :) It'll be at the top of my agenda...
Try eating your therapist cookies this weekend when you are feeling stressed out! I wish I had a whole batch of them. I wouldn't save them anymore..
Posted by Speaker on December 19, 2003, at 20:25:21
In reply to Re: I'm angry just thinking about YOU! » Speaker, posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 17:24:51
DaisyM,
I remember when my husband was terminally ill and trying to juggle things...ikkk! One of the things that helped the most was talking with my husband and asking him what would be the best thing to do. He was very selfless (yes, he was a man :) and he always wanted to keep our lives as normal as possible. He always encouraged me to go to things without him...he said it made him feel better knowing the kids weren't missing out because of him. It was hard at times and people couldn't do anything right...if they asked about him I really didn't want to talk and if they didn't ask I would think they didn't care. It is a very difficult task you have. I use to say if there were three of me there would be enough to go around. Fortunately, you have sought counsel...I didn't go for any help until a year after my husbands death. I hope you will be able to enjoy some of your weekend no matter what you decide to do. Remember- take care of you!
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 23:54:29
In reply to Re: I'm angry just thinking about YOU!, posted by Speaker on December 19, 2003, at 20:25:21
>>Fortunately, you have sought counsel...I didn't go for any help until a year after my husbands death. I hope you will be able to enjoy some of your weekend no matter what you decide to do. Remember- take care of you!
<<My youngest starting having anxiety attacks last year and we took him to a wonderful guy who works with kids. About 5 months into it we (the 3 of us) were playing a game and my son's Therapist pulled a card that was "How do you handle your stress?" Now, instead of clueing in that I was suppose to model for my son, I made a smart comment about working too much to avoid home. From that point on, My son's Therapist ask me everytime how I was taking care of myself. He convinced me that I was on overload and needed some support "just for me." Especially since I don't have a clue how to take care of myself -- I work. That is my distraction.
Seven months into Therapy and I still am not very good at it. I know what you mean about explaining to other people though...sometimes I just don't want them to ask, it is too hard. Unfortunately my Husband is on steroids that make him...ummm...grumpy? He gets pretty self-centered and puts what energy he has into working when he can and our kids. Which is fine. It just gets hard sometimes.
Sooo...we are struggling tonight to keep the blood sugars under 300 and the breathing above 400. I should join the circus as a balancing act.
My oldest is home from college and it is nice to have my whole brood together. Ask me about this again in 3 days! :)
Posted by DaisyM on December 19, 2003, at 23:57:08
In reply to Re: I'm angry just thinking about YOU! » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 18:39:05
Thanks Dinah. I know you know how complicated Diabetes can be. Coupled with COPD, it is a night mare. I'm sure he is depressed (I've recently read Diabetes/Depression go together) but he doesn't believe in counseling for himself. He says that is what he has a wife for. Lucky me.
Is Christmas over yet?
Posted by DaisyM on December 20, 2003, at 0:02:01
In reply to Oh no! More therapist cookies :( » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 18:45:10
My Therapist says somewhere along the line I learned that my needs where too big for anyone to handle so I stuff them. I'm very self sufficient that way. But now, as I start to admit the need for support, I find that I'm not very good at asking for it. I think I'm asking, but i don't get what I want. Of course, in therapy, this is common -- you don't get what you want, but rather, what you need. Yuck.
As far as cookies, it is the decorating part that will be entertaining. I can upgrade his wardrobe.
:)
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