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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
Ok, so most of you feel something during therapy and/or directly after. I really don't, other than annoyance at him for talking too much, or for various other reasons. I don't feel anything at all until later that evening and it is mostly guilt for not working hard enough during the session. Or, I'll start thinking about things and I just shake. I wouldn't say that emotionally I feel anything, but my anxiety comes through physically. So, it is fairly obvious to the casual observer that I have blunted emotions. How do I start "feeling something" Anything for crying out loud. I think the best place to start would be therapy, as it is a safe place. He won't yell at me for crying, or be upset with me. So, how do I start feeling emotions again. Feeling emotions about things that I need to. It seems now that I am crying, but not when I need to (ie, during Oprah's favorite things. What is that??) I can talk about things that happened to me, but I have no emotion towards it. Like I'm just reading a story. Any tips on how to feel emotions DURING therapy sessions?
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 9:43:47
In reply to Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
I know what you mean - my emotions seem to have a mind of their own - they come and go as they please! If I could talk to her every time something comes up, then I think it would be more helpful, but it seems like when I actually go to my session, I'm feeling better (usually, not always), so she doesn't see the other, more troubled, side of me.
Last week, I think it was, I talked to my pdoc for 30 minutes on Wednesday night. I see him on Friday, but usually (since it's Friday, the work week is over and I have a couple of days of peace, so to speak) I'm feeling better when I see him. But when I talked to him last Wed night, I was a mess. I told him on Friday that that is more of an accurate indicator, in my eyes, of how I'm feeling. Not sure he believed me though!
A thought, though I can't really do this - when you are *feeling*, can you journal it? Journal whatever it is you are feeling, and then maybe re-read it before therapy (to bring up some of those feelings) or read it in therapy.
You might also talk to him about that, about not really being able to feel during therapy. I, too, think that it makes my sessions less productive. I love seeing my therapist. But I think that half the time we end up talking about nothing at all. Certainly nothing productive or 'therapeutic.' But I so hate to be upset, that I don't try to bring up those troublesome feelings during my session except occasionally. Sigh.
Which brings me to a question - do you (and others) think that it's possible to have productive therapy sessions without dredging up sadness, anger, frustration, troublesome feelings???
P
Posted by judy1 on December 18, 2003, at 10:12:24
In reply to Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
It's pretty obvious that you are feeling quite a bit- so much that you're having physical aspects of anxiety. It sounds like the problem is you can't verbalize those feelings in the presence of your therp. Honestly that comes with time and trust- how long have you been going? Does he remind you of someone that you feel unresolved anger towards? Not expressing emotions tells your therp quite a lot too, if a great deal of time elapses without you feeling safe enough to progress then maybe you should try someone else. Writing helps too, I e-mail my pdoc all the time. I've seen mine for 3 years and I still am very closed up in his presence, but I have major trust issues and he really gets it. So we wait.. Not everyone can conform to a time schedule, the important part of this is for you to feel better and not feel guilt about anything.
take care, judy
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 10:41:55
In reply to Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
Like you Karen, I feel nothing during therapy. I am always very matter of fact. After therapy however or even before, I will cray about things we have talked about or are about to talk about. I told him I felt it was a waste of time and money for me to cry in therapy since he would be watching me cry, and I would be crying, and no talking would be going on.
Posted by judy1 on December 18, 2003, at 11:00:32
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 10:41:55
that is so practical :-). just think of all the kleenex and time you save, I never considered that aspect. I imagine that as long as you feel you're making progress, it really doesn't matter when you emote.
take care, judy
Posted by Joslynn on December 18, 2003, at 11:01:57
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 10:41:55
This is an interesting discussion. I think it takes a lot of time. In the beginning, I could discuss my emotions verbally, but I wasn't actually feeling them as I articulated them. Or I would come in and read journal entries out loud, but not express the feelings I was having at the moment in the room.
Then time went on and it just got easier, gradually, to feel what I was discussing, not just intellectualize it. Sometimes it helps me to remind myself in my head about what feelings I want to get out.
One of the best things that ever happened to me was when I cried in front of my pdoc for at least 15 minutes straight. I was falling apart and just could not fight it anymore. Looking back, that's actually when I started getting better, when I let it all out like that first. It was a turning point. And he was so good and patient, not like a lot of men, who cannot stand to hear a woman cry and just want to shut it down.
I cried in front of my therapist a couple times when I was rejected romantically. (That is a big abandonment trigger for me.) Once when I was talking/crying on the phone to her, I was so upset I put the phone down and threw up! Sorry about the details. She heard it and everything. That was the night after a break-up with someone.
Does this every happen to anyone...you start involuntarily expressing the opposite feeling than what you freally eel? This has happened with my therapist, when she will say something empathetic about what it was like to grow up with my father, and I will start grinning and sometimes even have to fight back a giggle! I don't think it's funny, but my body wants to laugh. It's disconcerting.
Posted by Joslynn on December 18, 2003, at 11:06:02
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy, posted by Joslynn on December 18, 2003, at 11:01:57
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:36:12
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 9:43:47
Something is just plain wrong with me. :( Ok, I've been seeing him for almost a year (a year in February). And it is his fault that I've remembered things about my father. Before I started seeing him, I had a perfect relationship with my father. (His words, not mine). I mean I don't hold a grudge towards him.
But, as in emotions, I don't FEEL them. When I get upset I shake. But I don't FEEL anything. I'm not sad. And in therapy I don't feel sad. And when I remember things I can't sleep or eat, so I know it affects me, but I don't actually FEEL it. You know what I'm saying. I'm like a man (he he), I'm not in touch with my emotions. And I find it a bit insulting that he's more in touch with his emotions than I am. And that he is more alarmed by what I tell him during sessions than I am. Hell, I've lived it. And, I'm sure it has alot to do with PTSD and just building up a wall so I don't get hurt again. But, how can I start to feel things again?
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:44:27
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 9:43:47
Well, for a while I was so resistant that he let me drive for a while. I controlled everything. And we didn't talk about much. But, it allowed me to learn to trust him. And it gave me time to slowly begin to talk about my relationship with my father. That was the turning point in my therapy. The time where I thought we weren't doing anything. The time where we were just chit-chatting, which lasted for about 3 months. I set the pace. And I controlled the conversation. I began to open up. It made all the difference to me. That time was really important to my therapy. It gave me a break. I got my anxiety under control. And my memory started to improve. But he didn't hassle me or push me. So, even though none of my sessions cause me to feel anger or sadness, most of the material now involves all of these elements. But, if it wasn't for the time I had with the small talk, I wouldn't be able to now talk about the important stuff!
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 11:57:31
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:44:27
> Well, for a while I was so resistant that he let me drive for a while. I controlled everything. And we didn't talk about much. But, it allowed me to learn to trust him. And it gave me time to slowly begin to talk about my relationship with my father. That was the turning point in my therapy. The time where I thought we weren't doing anything. The time where we were just chit-chatting, which lasted for about 3 months. I set the pace. And I controlled the conversation. I began to open up. It made all the difference to me. That time was really important to my therapy. It gave me a break. I got my anxiety under control. And my memory started to improve. But he didn't hassle me or push me. So, even though none of my sessions cause me to feel anger or sadness, most of the material now involves all of these elements. But, if it wasn't for the time I had with the small talk, I wouldn't be able to now talk about the important stuff!
I see your point...I was in therapy with my former T for 3 years and it didn't take me long to open up to her, and I guess I was in crisis a good bit of the time, so my visits were typically emotionally charged...but I've been seeing my current T for a year now, and I feel very comfortable with her and I've told her some fairly intimate details about myself, but find myself avoiding what I tell myself are the 'real reasons' I'm in therapy. Instead, I talk about the book I'm reading, or something at work, or whatever is happening at the time. Because I don't particularly want to dredge up the emotional stuff that surrounds my childhood, my issues with men (which I've done a mighty fine job of suppressing), etc., I just don't, and she doesn't push me to. Perhaps I should ask her to push me a little more? I dunno...Does any of this make sense?
P
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 12:06:29
In reply to BUT....., posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:36:12
You say you don't FEEL ... I don't know what to tell you. My experience is that I might be feeling something but not know what it is I'm feeling - like my T will say, "Are you angry? Are you sad?" and I won't know how to answer. Because I'll be experiencing some emotion, but I won't be able to recognize it. It's very strange.
And I know what you mean about your T being more alarmed by what you tell him than you are - there were so many things about my parents and my childhood that I just took as 'normal' (whatever that is!) and then I told my former T and she pointed out to me certain characteristics about myself that were a direct result of the troubled childhood I experienced. Honestly, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not - I see the benefits and the drawbacks - perhaps I knew something was wrong, but didn't know what, and when she pointed out certain things, then I was able to see the entire picture.
He's more in touch with his emotions b/c he's a therapist. That's his job. I would expect that most therapists are more in touch with their emotions than the average person, but they may or may not choose to share that fact. Their whole field is built around emotion in a way.
It does sound like you are putting up a wall - definitely protecting yourself from pain that you would rather not experience right now. And you are obviously expressing that pain in different ways. It will all come in time, I think. When you are ready to handle experiencing that pain, you'll be able to feel it. Suppressing emotion is an important coping skill. Give yourself time. Try to connect those physical reactions (shaking, loss of sleep and appetite, etc.) to the emotion that you think it corresponds with.
What, do you think, it would mean for you to allow yourself to start 'feeling' those things? (whether in or outside of therapy?)
P
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:18:52
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 11:57:31
It makes perfect sense. But, have you resolved the issues from your past? If not, then I think it is important to bring them up again. Why have you not brought them up? Do you feel comfortable with your current therapist? I finally told my therapist that he HAS to push me more to talk to him about things. He used to ask me "What are you thinking about?" and I would answer "Oh, I need a new pair of shoes" or stupid crap like that. We both knew that wasn't true. But, he didn't push the issue. Finally, now he does because I called him one day and said "I'm ready to start talking but you HAVE to push me harder." And he agreed. Just this week, I remembered something but I felt ashamed to admit it. So I was listing some things I remembered and I came to that one and just stopped. And I began to fiddle with my coffee cup. And he moved a little bit closer to me and said, "And..." And I was silent for about 30 seconds but I told him. Three months ago I would never have told him. NEVER!!! I'm so proud of myself! :) :) (That gets 2)
I think the important thing is that you should look at why you are avoiding opening up. My biggest reason is that I didn't want to lose the fact that my dad wasn't perfect. I didn't want to lose that aspect of my life. Also, I didn't want to open up to someone who doesn't have any type of emontional investment in me. That is something I still struggle with, but I can always lie to myself and believe that *maybe* he does. And another reason is just plain shame.
Ask yourself why you don't want to dive into the issues.....
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 13:39:28
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Penny, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:18:52
> Ask yourself why you don't want to dive into the issues.....
I guess I did so much diving into the issues with my first therapist - told her all about my parents' and their drug use, my dad's verbal abuse, and then my grandfather committed suicide while I was seeing her, so that brought up a lot as well. Things I couldn't avoid as they were happening right then. But I've been through the parent stuff so many times...and I've told my current T about them, and we've talked about my grandfather and the situation surrounding his death, and we talk about my family in general, but...I don't know.
We had some fodder for sessions when I was seeing this guy a few times earlier this year - I could talk about my fears and such and she is much better about those things and I am more comfortable talking about sexual things with her than with my former T - but then the thing with the guy ended and there's been no one else since and I haven't wanted to discuss it, frankly. I'm sure that a large part of it is opening up those wounds that I'd rather not deal with! It's not that I am afraid to say any of those things to her, I'm not, I just don't want to talk about it period. But if she pushed me a bit more, I wouldn't be opposed to talking about those things. Left to my own choices about discussion topics however...I don't know at what point I will bring up serious stuff again...
Sigh. I have therapy this evening and I think I will tell her about this thread. We'll see.
P
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2003, at 20:24:18
In reply to Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
I used to have time delay reactions to therapy. I honestly wouldn't know I was angry or sad or whatever till a few hours later. Then I got to where I knew I was feeling something but didn't know what.
I used a lot of creative visualization. Before I went into session, I would go deep within myself, opening doors as I went along, to where my feelings were. I could generally pinpoint the place in my gut where I felt something. Lots of things like that. Visualization is one of my talents.
But I only did it when I was ready, when I felt really safe with him, and when I felt mostly able to control the process so that it didn't overwhelm me.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2003, at 20:35:29
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 9:43:47
I've had many productive sessions where no painful feelings came up. Strike while the iron is cold sort of discussion sessions.
I recently told my therapist he could challenge me more, but he liked it too much, and it overwhelmed me. But he said it was ok to renegotiate agreements in therapy too. So now he's challenging me too little. I feel like I push and meet with no resistance at all. We need to adjust the tension a bit to a bit more resistance.
So why don't you give it a try (after the holidays). You can always back off if you need to.
Actually, I think I usually tell him that we should spend the times when I'm feeling better doing the challenging work. Otherwise it gets a bit dull.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 21:13:47
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » Penny, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2003, at 20:35:29
You, dull, I hardly doubt that :)
Posted by LostGirl on December 19, 2003, at 9:50:27
In reply to Feeling during therapy, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 9:12:04
These topics are so great. I can't believe it, like you all have experienced sides of me that I wouldn't be able to explain to other people.
My answer is - when I started seeing my former therapist, with my husband as a couple, I could only feel angry (at my husband) or numb. I always thought there was something wrong with me because I couldn't cry. Then I would start to find that after the session I would get sad. Then it got to where I would get sadder each time. Then I was terribly, horribly sad, not sleeping, etc. First incident of major depression. The therapist started seeing me alone in addition to as a couple. Started asking a lot about childhood, etc. At first I told all kind of stories as though I were a detached reporter. No emotion. Yet emotion would register in his face. He'd look sad at a sad story. Occasionally a tear in the corner of his eye. He would say things like "you felt hurt inside" and that was profound to me, because I couldn't have seen it otherwise. And I went through a period of almost constant heaviness in my chest, like something coming up, wanting to come out, but unable to cry or release it. Then I remembered something my mother used to say - "Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" and I realized I had trained myself not to cry so as not to get hit at a young age. And not long after that, when I told something, and he looked sad, things would well up in me, and then I would sometimes cry. So, in that therapy experience, I became acquainted with emotions, my emotions, over a period of 3 years. Then he, apparantly also pretty attached to me started to play head games, basically out of his own countertransference (Forgetting to tell me about a vacation was the worst offense) and that was it.
But early on when I felt there was something wrong with me not having emotions, he said "you have them, you are just disconnected from them" and I believe that proved to be right.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 11:40:41
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy, posted by LostGirl on December 19, 2003, at 9:50:27
But it took you three years? Waaaa! I don't have three years. I have a year and a half to get my life together. That is my time frame. And that should be plenty of time. I've already used a year and a half. And I'm still not feeling anything.. But, your situation sounds similar to mine. Very similar. How exactly did you start to become aware and acquainted with emotions? I need a step by step set of direction here. I know that isn't possible. But, any type of help would be appreciated.
Posted by Lost Girl on December 20, 2003, at 13:51:07
In reply to Re: Feeling during therapy » LostGirl, posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 11:40:41
The process was just lots of talking and getting more and more comfortable with him and seeing his reactions to the content helped mine come more to the surface. It didn't take 3 year - I was with him for 3 but I was able to start feeling things after 1 year of once a week and then about midway into twice a week the second year.
This is the end of the thread.
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