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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2003, at 21:10:03
http://www.trauma-pages.com/steele-2001.htm
I think for the most part I have a secure dependency on my therapist. And they make it sound like not such a bad thing. And his countertransference appears rather balanced. :)
Posted by Speaker on December 7, 2003, at 9:40:03
In reply to This made me feel better..., posted by Dinah on December 6, 2003, at 21:10:03
Dinah,
Thank you for doing the research and finding this article. As we have talked I have been terminated and am looking for a new therapist. I have been grieving the loss of my old therapist and thought I shouldn't have gotten dependent enough that it would bother me :). After reading the article I am feeling very healthy. I did have a secure dependency with the therapist as I see is essential for progress with PTSD. Where do you go to find such helpful information?
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 10:30:42
In reply to Re: This made me feel better..., posted by Speaker on December 7, 2003, at 9:40:03
Oh, I was feeling guilty for going back on my agreement with my therapist, and sure he was disgusted with me and wished he could get rid of me (which may be true at the moment). So I was doing a search on safety and psychotherapy, and why it was so hard for me to keep that feeling of safety. My therapist seemed a bit put out that all the work we had done to create a safe environment couldn't stand up to a bit of challenging.
Sigh.
So yes, I guess that not only are you going to have to look for a new therapist, but it will probably be worthwhile to feel securely attached again. I really admire your strength, in case I haven't told you.
Posted by DaisyM on December 7, 2003, at 12:45:01
In reply to This made me feel better..., posted by Dinah on December 6, 2003, at 21:10:03
Dinah,
Thank you for the article. I have recently spent hours researching this as it make total sense to me. I have found that articles and books by J.Holmes, who is cited in this article are really very good. It was also great that they consider reintegration of the self essential (Kohut).Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you are securely attached. Do you think you will share this with your Therapist? Do you think the gender dynamic has any affect on dependency?
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 13:25:34
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 7, 2003, at 12:45:01
Thanks! I'll check out Holmes. I'm always looking for more information.
I'm not sure if I'll share this or not. It's awfully long, I'd have to highlight things, which might change the tone. And it's kind of weird to hear yourself referred to as the client.
I saw in the article that he referred to a book about women needing attachment more than men. I'm not sure that's true. The men I know best seem to need secure attachment at least as much as women, if not more. And I'm not sure that it makes much difference if the therapist/client dyad is male/female either. I've only had that sort.
And my attachment to him is definitely maternal. So I'm not sure about gender making a difference.
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 13:37:58
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 7, 2003, at 12:45:01
That's Jeremy Holmes? And attachment theory?
Posted by fallsfall on December 7, 2003, at 16:50:40
In reply to This made me feel better..., posted by Dinah on December 6, 2003, at 21:10:03
Very good article. Will you show it to your therapist? This is one of the best descriptions of dependency that I've seen. Thanks for finding it for us. (someone will have to check out the other book they mention "The Healing Connection", my library doesn't have it, but a friend's library does.)
Posted by DaisyM on December 7, 2003, at 17:28:07
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 13:37:58
Yes. I have read "The search for a Secure Base: attachment Theory and Psyhcotherapy" and I have a library hold on "Attachment, Intimacy, autonomy: Using Attachment Theory in Adult Psychotherapy", also by Jeremy Holmes.
I also picked up a book by Pat Sable this weekend: "Attachment and Adult Psychotherapy" but I haven't started it yet.
I like that fact that the article recommended giving clients "In Session" to read. I haven't seen that before.
Posted by judy1 on December 7, 2003, at 21:58:57
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 13:25:34
thanks for posting this Dinah. as far as the gender thing- I couldn't have identified more with the male patient who never requested anything in 4? years of therapy. Like him, my ANP is firmly and most independently in place, and like him I'm making little progress. so I too think gender is not an issue, taking a leap of trust is.
Posted by jane d on December 8, 2003, at 0:03:59
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » Speaker, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2003, at 10:30:42
>
.... My therapist seemed a bit put out that all the work we had done to create a safe environment couldn't stand up to a bit of challenging.But don't you get challenged every day outside of therapy? And shouldn't your therapist consider how well you are standing up to that when evaluating the success of your therapy? You certainly get challenged here often enough and are standing up to it quite well. :)
Jane
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2003, at 19:22:27
In reply to Re: This made me feel better... » Dinah, posted by jane d on December 8, 2003, at 0:03:59
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 13:52:14
In reply to This made me feel better..., posted by Dinah on December 6, 2003, at 21:10:03
By the descriptions in the article, my dependency is a secure one. Yet... I still live in fear of abandonment, and I still can't internalize him very well - not for more than a few days really. I'm hypersensitive to whether or not he's "mad" at me.
But I acknowledge and have empathy for my dependency needs, accept the limits of therapy, control my dependency behaviors to a mutually tolerable level, allow deep dependency on my therapist while maintaining a (for me) normal life, can distinguish my dependency feelings from erotic feelings, can discuss my dependency issues easily, and my dependency on my therapist definitely promotes functioning and improvement in daily life. Straight out of the secure dependency column of that article. I couldn't answer yes to all of them, but I could for most.
Yet I still feel like the blind pup with the mother dog with him.
Does a secure dependency really feel this insecure?
If so, where is up from here? Secure independency? Secure attachment (as opposed to dependency)?
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:09:07
In reply to Why does secure feel so insecure?, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 13:52:14
I think you have to seperate abandonment issues from dependency issues. YOU control your dependency (to some extent). You have NO control over another person's behavior (ie: leaving).
Just because you have a secure dependency doesn't mean you are then capable of functioning without it. Or want to.
That said -- this is one of the hardest things I struggle with in Therapy! Creating a depency that must end at some point seems self-destructive to me, perilous almost. But, I am insecurely attached, as I have noted. I've spent at least 1/2 of today going over the same thing:
"Call. you'll feel better."
"Nope, don't call. What is it you think he can do for you anyway. You'll just look childish."
"But he said call if you need him."
"Just because you feel like screaming doesn't mean you need him. Control yourself."And on, and on...
I'm the pup chasing her tail!
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 17:21:26
In reply to Re: Why does secure feel so insecure? » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:09:07
> Just because you have a secure dependency doesn't mean you are then capable of functioning without it. Or want to.
You're absolutely right. That is why secure feels so insecure. I need to remember that distinction.
>
> That said -- this is one of the hardest things I struggle with in Therapy! Creating a depency that must end at some point seems self-destructive to me, perilous almost. But, I am insecurely attached, as I have noted. I've spent at least 1/2 of today going over the same thing:
>
> "Call. you'll feel better."
> "Nope, don't call. What is it you think he can do for you anyway. You'll just look childish."
> "But he said call if you need him."
> "Just because you feel like screaming doesn't mean you need him. Control yourself."
>
> And on, and on...
>
> I'm the pup chasing her tail!You sound just like me a few years back. And to some extent, still. I was telling my therapist today how utterly dangerous it feels, at my more rational level, to allow myself to feel dependent on someone who has no real ties to me.
And I used to have those internal dialogues, too. I even used to call him, cancel the call, reinstate the call, etc. But the thing was that by the time I was doing that, I was already attached. I was fighting a losing battle to try to fight a done deal.
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 18:00:19
In reply to Re: Why does secure feel so insecure?, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 17:21:26
Sounds like hard earned wisdom.
and a creeping truth for me too.
Posted by Penny on December 10, 2003, at 8:54:56
In reply to Re: Why does secure feel so insecure?, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 17:21:26
Dinah,
I don't really have any sage words of wisdom to share, but wanted to say that I think you are doing a wonderful job in nurturing your attachment to your therapist and opening yourself up to him - how difficult to be so honest, as we all know. Certainly he must recognize that - that, I think, IS a challenge.
P
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