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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zarathustra on September 22, 2003, at 21:01:03
***************I have already posted this in psycho babble and thought I would seek different opinions from 'psychological babble', perhaps a different point of view. what follows is my original post***************
I have turned to 'psycho-babble' for advice as I dont believe I can trust psychiatrists anymore; I have seen several and they always seem to diagnose me differently. I have followed this board for about ten years now, posting infrequently. I know there are some very intelligent people here (salarmy4me, Cam.w st.james to name a few)including pharmacists and doctors. Also, experience speaks for itself.I am frustrated with my life and chronic 'underachievement' and still have no answers after years of seeking help.
So, I leave my long story in your hands, open to any input, encouragment, ideas, thoughts or advice.
I will begin at the beginning including details which may or may not be relevant (It helps to have all the facts I think). Appreciation to all that read my story, and thanks to those who respond.
I was born in 1974 with an extra thumb on my right hand. The thumb was removed without problem however I was forced to learn to use my left hand to write as my right thumb does not bend. As a child I was a cry-baby and very shy, always seeking my mother for security. This of course drove her nuts over time, and I have been told that on several occaisons she would bribe the neighborhood kids with popsicles to play with me. Predictably, I would cry when they came around and run to her. School started and almost immediately difficulties were evident. I refused to do any type of work whatsoever and was always "day-dreaming", I was not hyperactive at all. At home, I kept myself very very busy with independant projects which I deemed to be important. I invented things, was fascinated by bugs and ants, and had uncanny skills in electronics. At around ten years old I recall having made an electronic burglar alarm system for my room out of a popular magazine. I built and invented many things from scartch and had an insatiable curiosity to know how things worked.
The point being that outside of school, I appeared to be brilliant yet in the classroom I would produce absolutely nothing. The school became very concerned in grade 4 and decided to have me tested using the WISC-R for a learning disability. Both the school and my parents were absolutely shocked to find that my full-scale score was "at or above the 99th percentile", and that "on a subtest thought to involve practical reasoning, Andrew received a perfect scaled score". My math scores however were at the 37th percentile. After many meetings, an IEP was developed and they decided that I would be put into the county's 'mode3 enhanced learning program'. I didnt like the idea of being stuck in 'nerd class', as I already did not fit in with school kids and was alienated from their activites because I was different.
So, in grade 5 my life began to go down hill.
My marks and attention didnt improve with a 'tailored curriculum'; they continued to plumet.
Report cards from my school years are riddled with remarks like "I am sure if Andrew would apply himself, he would do better" or "Andrew appears to have alot on his mind, little to do with his schoolwork". My memories fail me somewhat, however I believe that I simply just wasnt interested in school work. I wanted to do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. At home I was busy reading my mothers college nursing books, creating things and LEARNING LEARNING LEARNING. But (in retrospect) I think that it was a kind of passive agression which caused me to do absolutely nothing in school; I refused to let anyone tell me what I needed to learn or how to learn it, I was kind of a 'fuck you' attitude. In grade eight I was selected by a Toronto television station out of thousands of written stories to be a 'student reporter'. I remember when the selection committee was interviwing me and the the other finalists, they were blown away by me (or so my father said who was present) I was talking about how I would changed the world and my inventions and how a television worked and my feelings on Hitler and Korea etc. etc. etc. they were fascinated by this young child who was so aware of the world. Anyways I went on t.v. and intervied a blind lady who used a seeing eye dog.
I dont mean to toot my own horn, I am trying to convey that as a child I was brilliant and had much potential. Everyone saw it. Everyone was perplexed and frustrated that I would not apply myself in school.
I dropped out of the mode3 program at the end of grade eight, to the dismay of my parents. I was longing to 'fit in' with my peers and felt that this could not be achieved if I was a nerd. So, grade nine I went to a regular high school. It was a nightmare. I was bullied badly for the first two years. I had no friends. I felt different. I failed most of my courses. I went to summer school and night school but I failed there too. My attendance was excellent, but I refused to do written work, homework, or to study. It was at this point in my life that I began to develope very bad self esteem. I was constantly picked on and called things such as a fag, loser, fat boy etc. I remember eating my lunch in the stairwell under the stairs. Perhaps if a teacher or counsellor had have opened their eyes a little they would have seen that what I needed was some support and somone to talk to, NOT more homework or detentions. I dropped out of high school in grade 14 :-) (I stayed an extra year to try to graduate but gave up) I immediately began working in a warehouse and blew every cent on stupid things, never saving (impulsive). My parents were seperating again for the third time and my mother was verbally abusive. This is when I began to take anti deppresants. My doctor gave my Zoloft and it worked ABSOLUTE WONDERS. It was awesome, fantastic, life was beautifull. Colors were more intense, music sounded better, I was sociable for the first time in my life. I couldnt believe it, It was like I had been transformed or put on a different planet. It was like I had woken up from a long nasty nighmare. I stayed on zoloft for about three months and then discontinued it myself because I couldnt achieve orgasm (let alone get it up) anymore. Of course the 'depression' returned. My doctor gave me a new script for zoloft several months later after life became intolerable again. To my dismay it did not work, he upped the dose and it still did not work. Many years and trials later (I am 28) it still does not work. I have tried at least 15 different antideppresants in a seemingly neverending quest to achieve that same profound effect zoloft had. I wonder if it was a 'better than well' reaction that zoloft had given me? Thats what the controversy over prozac was.I am getting tired of typing, so I will sum it up. Thanks for hanging in this far!
My life is a sad tragic story of a smart kid who never went anywhere. I start 10 things and finish none. I have very low self esteem and I hate myself. I believe I am ugly and worthless. I am feminine and extremely emotional and empathetic, This actually led to a period in my life where I THOUGHT I was gay; women were never atracted to me and people frequently called my gay. So I figured (in my search for belonging) that they must be on to something. I moved to the gay district in Toronto and started working in gay bars and dating gay men. Of course they welcomed me with open arms; this 20 year innocent young guy who was very eccentric and naive to the 'tricks' of men. ****I have nothing against gays and Its not my intention to offend anyone, however those are MY opinions and experiences******
To my dismay, I soon discovered I was not gay and was left with mountains of sexual guilt.I am 28 now. Up until a few weeks ago I was working as a child and youth worker in group homes
(I kind of sneeked my way into the field through volunteering and using connections) I have worked in this field for the last 5 years.A year ago, I developed a nasty compulsive gambling problem with slot machines. I have blown about 35 thousand dollars. I am going to gamblers anonymous and I guess it helps a little, however, being an agnostic It is difficult to find a 'higher power'. Three weeks ago I gambled again, my whole pay-cheque again. In the last year I have slept in my car, stolen, borrowed, got fired from the best job of my life due to fraud, attempted suicide. Anyways, I blew my cheque and flipped out in a huge ragefull anxiety attack. I was very scared and drove myself to the hospital; they admitted me on a 'form 1' to the psych ward for about a week. After hearing my story, the psychiatrist there concluded that I have ADD. He started me on dexedrine 5mg BID a week ago.
The dexedrine hasnt really improved my attention or focus I dont think, however, my mood has lifted to something which resembles that zoloft experience I earlier spoke of. I am VERY confused....Everyone responds to dexedrine..right?
Am I on a medication or a drug (you know what I mean) I feel like I am cheating somehow.
Aside from this, I have been in a long argument with my G.P. for years, he is the one who has given me the antideppressants over the years. He says I DO NOT have add; I have depression. I raised the add possibility years ago, but he has always dismissed it. He further says that the depression in my life has caused all of my failures and my view that the world is disgusting and that we are animals. I argue
that the reason I am depressed is that the world is shitty and digusting and meaningless.Do you see my dilema? He (g.p.) says that I have been rationalizing the depression. I say "NO!" thats just the way the world is and I see it for what it is because I am smart and different.
That brings to mind another question; does the depressed mind see life as it really is? Or, Is the 'normal' person being denied reality via ample neurotransmitters? I am really fucked up. I dont know what is what anymore, I think too much, over analyse too much, read my dsm too much and I am very introspective.
I have always felt that I am "different", profoundly different. I just dont fit in. I feel like I have this deep insight into life that other people just dont see. Maybe nothing is wrong with me, and I am just a loser trying to justify (or rationalize) my failures with diagnoses like add or depression. Who knows?
Another problem is this; I have read that psychiatrists should be very carefull not to misdiagnose gifted people with A.D.D. They can co-exist however, it is rare. Gifted people tend to be all over the place, hence the old saying "there is a fine line between genius and insanity". If this is true, then what is a smart or gifted person to do? Why dont they have a DSM classification for "too smart disorder".
I feel that my suicidal ideation is increasing, I cant be strong and percevere forever
I also question my intelligence; "how can somone so smart be such a fuck-up" maybe I was just having a good day when I was tested and it was mere coincidence.Are you still with me? Thanks.
I read philosophy now, in my search for answers about conciousness and existence. Unfortunately its all pretty discouraging and morbid stuff. Espescially Nietzsche. I have fallen into this kind of lonely alienated pit of my own thought. I dont know how to get out. And the doctors and psychiatrists in my life seem to be just as baffled as I am. Or they say that nothing is wrong with me and that everyone goes through experiences like mine. I think I need a little validation from people of my intelligence sometimes, however its very possible that some doctors are intimadated by it.
At the heart of me I think my problems might lay in my longing to fit in. However, its very hard to fit in with people when I see them so condescendingly. People are so shallow and crass. They are selfish, jealous, greedy, conforming pigs. Compounding this, I realise that I AM TOO!!
I am only human. So maybe its my very existence that sickens me? OR am I depressed? OR do I have add? OR am I just a stupid fucking loser who cant deal with it?WHAT THE HELL IS DEPRESSION???????????????????
I is absolutely impossible to be objective about that matter if the very brain thats looking at the problem is looking at it though 'depressed eyes'. and if I have always been depressed as my g.p. says, then I dont know the difference! I only know MY reality. So therefore that IS reality.
I am rambling.I am just really confused about all this. Humankind has been trying to answer these question forever, and for some reason, I feel like I should be able to do it: maybe I am being to hard on myself. If I am basically taking a 'street drug', Dexedrine, and its making me happier (and maybe focusing me a bit but the doctor says that will take 1-2 week to notice) then is it correcting my brain, or is it drugging me? Is it clouding reality? beyond that, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? If you feel good, then who cares? Well, I do, because I feel like I am lying to myself and denying the truth. But.........They say that MY truth is depressed. whatever.
Please help me. I dont want sympathy, just answers.
Thanks for reading all this crap :-) I am actually suprised that I have been sitting here for over an hour typing, my attention and focus must be getting better.
Andrew.
Posted by fallsfall on September 22, 2003, at 23:03:47
In reply to Reposting from psycho-babble., posted by zarathustra on September 22, 2003, at 21:01:03
Hi Andrew,
I can't answer most of your questions, but as you were describing your attitude towards school I thought of my son. He is very bright - will be a computer scientist some day. Starting in high school his grades started to drop. By his last semester there were 3 classes that could keep him from graduating. He got one D and two D- for those three classes. "Grades don't measure intellegence, so why should I worry about grades?" He decided that he wanted to go into the Army. He told me that he knew that he needed some discipline and that he could get that at Basic Training. He is in Basic Training now (and really liking it). He seems enthusiastic about the amount of discipline and rigidness that the Army provides. I can't tell you yet if it is what he needs, but I'm hoping.
I don't know if this has any relevance for you, but I thought I'd let you know what he decided to do.
Good luck!
Posted by pixygoth on September 24, 2003, at 15:18:33
In reply to Reposting from psycho-babble., posted by zarathustra on September 22, 2003, at 21:01:03
Zarathustra -
I totally empathise with you - I was the kid who always got As...
then in my third year at uni (two years ago) my depression (which I have been aware of since I was so young I can't remember) got worse, I started to drop grades, and worst of all I don't know if it's the depression,. or the anti-depressant drugs (Effexor... and I'm coming off it) or just a natural intellectual burnout that happens when you pass adolescence.
I got through Uni (and got a 2:1 ... good, but not satisfying - I wanted a first, dammit, and might have got it...)Anyway my point is that although it makes me feel bigheaded and pompous to say it (and it will you too I imagine) I agree that properly intelligent people should be able to see how horrible the world is. If they say "it's the illness", it makes me feel like I don't want to get better - If I do and then feel okay, I'll surely feel guilty about not recognising the badness in the world.
Anyway, to not let this whole post be about the paradox of how horrible life is, lets get to Nietzsche... (ho ho)
I love him... I think he was massively depressed, but was pig-headed enough to be really ANGRY about it overall. And thus although he couldn't get happy, he pushed and pushed at life and society etc. and kept himself occupied with his anger (and intelligent anger it was too...)
Did you know that Nietzsche dismissed Schopenhauer's claims to be depressive by saying that a man who played the flute and owned a little dog couldn't be that miserable? That sums up his bitter, black-humour kind of thinking to me. Keep in with the philosophy, cos although it looks nasty to start with, it all links together to show you a transcendant level of consideration - Wittgenstein on Religion, for example is very good and helped me to overcome my 'hatred' of Christianity....
As to your worry about Dexedrine - take it if it makes you feel better. Lots more people have taken that than e.g. Effexor.(that is the sideeffects are better doc'd and so on) And legal drugs e.g. ALCOHOL kill loads of people - illegal ones like cannabis can have no fatalities at all. I say these things to help you demolish the "pharmaceutical/street" dichotomy in your head... (After all, see Kant on the trouble with black and white distinctions!)
As to feeling good while things are bad - as I said I sympathise. But physiologically feeling okay with intellectual misgivings is better than feeling shitty in all ways, right? At least you can still maintain the awareness of injustice etc. in the world, and won't become one of the ignorantly happy.
Hope to see you posting soon,
S
Posted by pixygoth on September 24, 2003, at 15:21:02
In reply to Re: Reposting from psycho-babble., posted by pixygoth on September 24, 2003, at 15:18:33
This is the end of the thread.
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