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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 0:20:36
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 6, 2003, at 18:28:51
How do I find a therapist that specializes or even knows much about borderline? I am going to go to a day group starting this week. For two weeks. Might as well call it daycare. My husband will NOT leave me by myself. I go tomorrow at 5 to be assessed. Which means I will be alone all day because my kids have football games about 2 hours away and I won't be able to go or I will miss my appointment. It worries me to be alone because of the self injury stuff. I am trying so hard to be big and brave. And good. I am 34 but I feel like a kid! I'm not going back on my meds. Screw them. If I do I feel like I am giving in to the mind mess. I am Bi-polar too. What a great deal!! Why do I try so hard to overcome all of this? Is it worth it? I will though. Everytime I log on and see I have a reply I get a little more hope. Just knowing someone cares and understands. I really want to find a therapist who knows about BPD. I think that would help. I feel more hopeful but so sad. Depression sux doesn't it!
Posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again, posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 0:20:36
First, ask your pdoc for a referral to someone who has experience with BPD. Here are some sites where you can find lists of DBT/BPD therapists:
http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/therapist/main.shtml
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/bpdlist.htm
This one has a good summary of how to find a DBT Therapist. The link to search, however, isn't working, but you can type it in and it is fine - but I couldn't find a way to search for a therapist... http://tara4bpd.org/DBT.htm
National
Borderline Personality Disorder
Resource and Referral Center
1-888-4-TARA APD
Will give you names of DBT therapistshttp://www.mental-health-today.com/bpd/bpdlist.htm
When you have to be alone tomorrow, can you have a friend come to keep you company? Could you go to a mall and walk around? I find that it helps me if I go out where there are people.
I'm glad you are going to a day group. Hopefully it won't just be daycare, but you'll be able to learn something there and become stronger. I would certainly ask the people there if they know about DBT or BPD therapists in your area. They are the people most likely to know.
You said: I'm not going back on my meds. Screw them. If I do I feel like I am giving in to the mind mess.
I'm not quite understanding what you mean. It seems to me that if you don't go back on your meds that you are screwing YOU - not screwing them. The meds aren't helping or hurting them. Can you tell me what "the mind mess" is? The reason I'm concerned is that I have seen friends who were doing OK, but then stopped their meds and went down really quickly. I know that there are times when I think that if I really fall apart, that I'll get the help that I need. But I'm beginning to understand that I can get that help even if I don't fall apart. And then I don't have to claw my way back up from falling apart.
I'm glad that you are determined to make it. It is really, really hard. But there are people to help, and it sounds like your husband is pretty supportive.
Yes, Depression is the pits
Posted by justyourlaugh on September 7, 2003, at 9:00:31
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
eggy we have alot in common..
i am 34 with kids and..in a day program for 3 more weeks..
i wouldnt be able to go everyday with my medication..and i even have found myself laughing and making jokes..i had a woman ask about my scars..i handeled it beautifully..i am finding answers to my questions as well..
..
go in with a possitive attitude,,
have a little fun eggy..let go of the hurt for a bit..
j
Posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 20:26:44
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
What I meant about the meds was...if I take them I am giving in to the fact that I am sick. I went to my assesment today. I am not sure when I get to start day group. Maybe not until next week. The lady I had to see was an hour late because she was with a suicide attempt in the ER. That made me realize I have to get well. Get better. I do not want to end up in room 13 with the other patient. The suicide room. I will not do that!
Posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 21:21:53
In reply to fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 20:26:44
I understand completely about not wanting to admit being sick by taking meds. But read your original post one more time. Can you see things in the post that are not particularly healthy behavior? If you want me to point some out for you I will (and if you have trouble finding more than a couple, please ask). These behaviors tell me (and you?) that you are sick. None of us want to be sick. But ignoring it doesn't make it go away. If you knew a diabetic who didn't take their insulin, would you think that they didn't have diabetes anymore? No, you would just worry about them because they would be getting sicker.
I don't want to have to worry about you. If you take your meds now, and go to your day group, and get hooked up with a therapist, and work really hard then you'll get better (I truly believe this). Once you are better, THEN you can decide if you need to continue the meds. In the meantime, not taking them makes it harder for you to get better.
Suicide is very scary. Unfortunately, suicide is something that us Borderlines do. We do that until we learn other ways to cope. You and I are at risk. I have had my best friends attempt suicide (and come dangerously close). I have sat next to their hospital beds worrying if they will make it. I am so glad that you don't want to follow that route. You (and I) have to work hard to avoid that. We need to take our meds, and go to therapy and work so, so hard.
I'm glad that you went for the assessment. That was a big step in taking care of yourself and getting on the road to being healthier. I hope your group starts soon.
There is no shame in being Borderline (though we do have a lousy reputation). YOU didn't do anything to get this way. Probably you are a little predisposed to it, and things happened while you were growing up that made it hard to learn effective ways of coping. But YOU will need to recover from it - noone can do that for you.
Please keep in touch
Posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
In reply to Am I sick? » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 21:21:53
I found a therapist. I had left a message on her answering machine Friday. I had forgot I did that but she just called and wants me to be there at 11. She said that maybe group wasn't a good thing right now after talking to me. But that she would and could help me. She has counseled Borderlines before. She says she even saw me 12 years ago when I was in a psych ward. I don't remember. But she did. I still miss my therapist. But I was really mad at him and was seriously considering harming him to get him to stay. I think it is a good thing for me to get away from him. I have never seen a female therapist. Never thought I would. I have always seen a male therapist because I have issues about my father and I thought a male therapist could help. I think it only hurt. I think I got attached. I feel somewhat hopeful now. Not so dead. I am going to be honest with her. Try to be anyway. I thought I was honest with michael but now I see I was hiding so many things that only hurt my therapy. I love you guys. You are holding me in there. But don't leave me yet. This new therapist might be a vampire!!
Posted by judy1 on September 8, 2003, at 9:47:20
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
That's wonderful!- especially the part that she has experience with treating borderlines. I can't tell you how critical that is in your recovery. Please let us know how things go today.
take care, judy
Posted by fallsfall on September 8, 2003, at 10:30:31
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
That is so wonderful! I'll be waiting to hear how your appointment goes. Honesty is so important (and sometimes it is so hard!).
There is sunshine, after all.
Posted by Adia on September 8, 2003, at 11:14:12
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
Hi Eggy,
That's so great! Let us know how it goes...I hope that you feel comfortable with her and can start building trust with her...
Honesty is the most important thing and yet it is so hard to open your heart and let someone close...
I hope it goes well today :o)
let us know..
lots of support,
Adia.> I found a therapist. I had left a message on her answering machine Friday. I had forgot I did that but she just called and wants me to be there at 11. She said that maybe group wasn't a good thing right now after talking to me. But that she would and could help me. She has counseled Borderlines before. She says she even saw me 12 years ago when I was in a psych ward. I don't remember. But she did. I still miss my therapist. But I was really mad at him and was seriously considering harming him to get him to stay. I think it is a good thing for me to get away from him. I have never seen a female therapist. Never thought I would. I have always seen a male therapist because I have issues about my father and I thought a male therapist could help. I think it only hurt. I think I got attached. I feel somewhat hopeful now. Not so dead. I am going to be honest with her. Try to be anyway. I thought I was honest with michael but now I see I was hiding so many things that only hurt my therapy. I love you guys. You are holding me in there. But don't leave me yet. This new therapist might be a vampire!!
Posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
In reply to Re: I have good news » Eggy, posted by Adia on September 8, 2003, at 11:14:12
She is awesome!!!! So easy to talk to. Knows just what I am thinking. Ask questions which Michael NEVER did. She didn't make me feel inferior about anything at all. She said I had value. Yes value. My mouth fell open and my mind went blank. Me and value. Those two words were never spoken together in the same sentence. I'm still stumped. She was stumped too. She almost laughed because I was so dumbfounded. This is when she said "Oh yes we have some work to do" Value. I just love it. She said my husband married me because he must have known I was valuble. I told her NO. I was pretty and loved sex. Then we both laughed. I laughed!!! What a joy. I am so happy. She is good. Really good. And only 15 minutes away!!
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2003, at 19:57:51
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
That's great Eggy. I'm so happy you landed in a safe place.
Posted by fallsfall on September 8, 2003, at 21:54:53
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
I am so happy for you!! This is wonderful. It is so nice to click with a therapist and feel comfortable. Enjoy!
Posted by noa on September 13, 2003, at 13:15:32
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
That's so wonderful! Good for you for picking yourself up and finding a new therapist, and this one sounds very promising, indeed.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news. » Eggy, posted by noa on September 13, 2003, at 13:15:32
Michael my therapist that said he couldn't see me anymore came back from California and called me yesterday. He said this "Look whose back" I said "That's nice to know" he said, "How are you doing?" I said, "I have some things there I need to pick up. When can I get them?" He was puzzled. I could tell he was somewhat at a loss for words. He couldn't believe that I didn't sit around the whole time in self-pity waiting for him to get back (I sort of did but he doesn't have to know that) He actually was still going to be my therapist. He never once acted like he said he wouldn't. He sort of stammered out "UH so Uh have you hooked up with someone else already". And I said "Actually I have". He said "So do you want to come by today and see me and we can talk and maybe you can get your stuff. I was so confused. Because I wanted to say, "I want you back...please take me back." but instead I said " No my husband will pick my stuff up. Just throw my journals away and put my other things in an envelope and he will be there after work." The journal thing killed him. He loved me doing those journals. 2 years worth.
But this morning I don't know what to think. I want to go back to him. I like my new therapist and I don't want to lose her. I miss him terribly. I am dying to lay on his couch and talk to him. I am so upset and confused. I even cut up my arm a few minutes ago. But I know not going back to get my things was a good step. I am a tad bit suicidal. Just thinking about it a little. Why did he have to call after what he said and did??? Why didn't he just leave it where it left off? I think what he did was inappropriate but it still got to me. I can feel myself sliding back down into that pit of dark sludge! Somewhere in this body is a happy person. I have seen her. I wish she would bounce out and take over and tell Michael to kiss her butt.
Posted by noa on September 18, 2003, at 14:32:57
In reply to Confusing Call from old therapist, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
When is your next appointment with the new therapist? I think you should go see her to process this before you decide what to do.
I don't know what to think either--except that my gut tells me that you are getting such conflicting messages from Michael and that is one thing you do not need from a therapist. If you are anything like me, chances are you have had plenty of those kind of mixed and confusing messages (crazy making) from people in your life and that is hard enough. Therapists are supposed to try to NOT replicate that kind of confusing stuff.
SO, my gut is giving me very uncomfortable feelings about him, but I, of course, can't judge from over here, not being you and all, only knowing a bit about this, etc.
So that is why I suggest holding off on deciding and talking with the new therapist about it to try to process what is going on.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 14:51:37
In reply to Confusing Call from old therapist, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
I agree with Noa that you should talk to your new therapist.
I think it was fine to send your husband after your things.
Two things that strike me are:
1. If a therapist makes a threat (I won't see you any more) they should not back out of it. Otherwise, how do you know when to believe them?
2. Are you in Psychoanalysis? You talk about a couch. I have read that Psychoanalysis is not good for Borderlines because there isn't enough structure. What kind of therapy does the new therapist do?
Let us know how it goes.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
In reply to Re: Confusing Call from old therapist » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 14:51:37
I am going to talk to my new therapist on Monday. And also get this...my P-doc was in with my T(same practice) and he had his secretary call today to tell me that he has mailed me a letter to explain in detail why he can no longer be my doctor. I didn't ask for that. I could care less about HIM!
About the type of therapy I get...yep the ol couch therapy. No CBT or much else around here. But My new T has already done more for me or at least made me think more than Michael ever did. Maybe it is because she is a woman.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 17:09:19
In reply to Re: , posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
You definately have confusing doctors. Do you know what type of therapy your new therapist does? CBT is supposed to be very successful for Borderlines. (I did CBT for 8 1/2 years - and for a while it was really good for me. Now I'm in Psychodynamic - and this is better for now.)
Posted by kara lynne on September 18, 2003, at 18:35:58
In reply to Re: , posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
Hi eggy,
I hope you're feeling better. Maybe I don't know the entire story, but I still cannot understand what you ever did wrong. You cancelled one appt. and had an episode of doubt about the therapy? And for this Michael said you had to find someone else?Whew. These therapists and their egos are too much for me to handle.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 20:56:22
In reply to Re: » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 17:09:19
Here is a link so you can preview my new therapist. She looks different than this. She actually has blonde hair now. I hunted her down as soon as I got her name. Such a stalker. Actually she said she had an old website she thought was still up. And it was. But I had already found it before she told me.
http://www.yousucceed.com/biopage.html
Now if I heard correctly she mentioned behavioral therapy. I have real problems going out by myself. OK I don't go anywhere ever alone. Or do anything ever by myself. Actually her office is across from Kmart and one of our goals is one day to go there with her and we will split up. I will not need her services then. I will be dead!!! But this is a goal. A goal for the year 2008 maybe. I tried to find a DBT therapist but there are none in my area. She is good though. Very good. She reads me like a book.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 21:54:19
In reply to Re: fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 20:56:22
Thanks for the link, Eggy.
I guess I'm a little confused, though. The link describes a woman who does "coaching". Coaching is not the same as therapy. Coaches are not licensed, but Therapists are. One of the related pages says that if you have psychiatric or emotional problems that you need to address those first (with someone else). I would think that Borderline would fall into that category.
Maybe she has finished the requirements for being licensed since that web page was created. Us Borderlines tend to be difficult to handle, so you would want to be sure that she has sufficient training so that she will know the best way to help you. You mentioned behavioral therapy (that will help you to get into KMart), is she also trained in cognitive therapy? I think that (and this is just my opinion) the cognitive part is important to treat BPD.
I'm glad that you feel comfortable with her. Good rapport is so important.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 22:32:25
In reply to Re: fallsfall » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 21:54:19
As for the borderline thing yes we are hard at times.I am so tired of being borderline. So sick of it. She is trained in CBT but not DBT. I wanted to do the DBT. I heard the DBT is really good. Yet I still get them confused.
She is a licensed Psychologist.Plus many other letters after her name. Not that this means anything. As soon as sit down she is like reading my mind. We are straight to the point. With Michael, I had to ask him to ask me questions. But he was still awesome. But with Michael my time would be up and I wouldn't have said anything. But the time I spent in there felt so good. But it is different with Laberta.
The very first day somehow we got on the conversation of my father. I think I mentioned how I felt as if Michael was my father.(she asked about him) And so many issues about my father were talked about. So many things I have always wanted to say and never did. Thoughts I had, feelings, abandonment issues. And she was right there. I actually cried real tears. Michael never saw me cry. We never really talked about my dad. Not once Michael had decided that yes, My dad is a jerk. Then no more dad talk. But Laberta explained and is trying to convince me that my dad is the one who is losing out not loving me. That he is the one who doesn't know how to love me. Not that I am bad or stupid. That no matter how hard I try I cannot live up to his expectations. She wants me to know that I am valuable. I am valuable no matter what he thinks.
I just hope I am doing the right thing. I think Laberta is definitely more helpful but I sure do miss Michael.
What type questions should I ask her?
Posted by fallsfall on September 19, 2003, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 22:32:25
She is a licensed Psychologist.Plus many other letters after her name. - well, I think that is does mean something. A good something. It means that she has had appropriate education and demonstrated her skills. It also means that she is bound by the ethics rules that therapists have. I think that is important.
DBT is like a layer on top of CBT. DBT is just a bit more specific for borderlines. You might ask her if she has seen the books ("Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder" and "Skills Training Manual for Borderline Personality Disorder"). The first book is meant for therapists, but I have it and I have found reading it to be helpful. The second book gives an overview of DBT and lesson plans and handouts for the Skills Training Group - this book is easier to read than the first book.
When I found these books I showed them to my therapist. She immediately went out and bought them. There was a Skills Training Group starting up, so I enrolled and she attended the therapist meetings for that group.
The Skills Training Group is no longer offered in this area. I have a friend whose therapist is including some of the DBT Skills into her regular therapy.
The best thing about DBT is that it takes into account the way that borderlines think. So it avoids some things that wouldn't be good for us, and adds in other things that we need.
From what you have said, she definately seems to be a better choice for you than he was.
Good for you!
Posted by Eggy on September 28, 2003, at 20:20:39
In reply to Re: fallsfall, posted by fallsfall on September 19, 2003, at 9:54:49
I hate dragging this thread on and on. I want my old therapist back. I am dying...melting...exploding...being swallowed up by depressive gook!!! He says he will take me. My new therapist is so much better but I have been so depressed lately. Suicidal. I have lost 9 lbs. I lay on the couch, dead to the world. But today he called from his house to see how I am. I just chipped right up. I don't know what it is. My husband says maybe I need his type of therapy. My mom says we are to buddy buddy. All we really do is fight. But if I don't go back to him I know I will kill myself. That is all I can think of. Not because I don't have him. But because I don't feel like I am living anymore. Because I feel like I have nothing. But I just really like my new therapist. I know I can get well faster with her. If I don't die first. This is what will probably happen if I stay like I am now. But if I go back to Michael then I may be in therapy forever but I will be alive.
Please help me and be totally honest. I have to call Michael back tomorrow. I see laberta on Wednesday. I need to make a decision. I really don't know what to do. I know what I want but is what I want what I need?
Posted by fallsfall on September 28, 2003, at 21:52:07
In reply to I totally give up!!!! I need your help., posted by Eggy on September 28, 2003, at 20:20:39
Eggy,
It would be so nice if our lives could be logical and always move forward. But...
I am concerned that you say: "But if I don't go back to him I know I will kill myself."
Therapists can be very important to us. But one thing that I've learned (OK, I'm still learning it) is that if the emotions I'm feeling are out of proportion to the situation, then my emotions are probably from some time when I was younger - they are just being triggered by the current situation. Let me explain. I saw my first therapist for 8 1/2 years. I left her because I was completely miserable (suicidal) and she didn't seem to understand what was going on at all. I found a new therapist (I've seen him for 3 months now). Two weeks ago I went to a Back to School night, and I was terrified. I was afraid that I would see my old therapist (I had seen her there a couple of years in the past). Then, last week I went to a depression support group meeting. My old therapist had started this group over a year ago. She attended only the first meeting. As I was driving to the group I started panicking - was she going to be there? What was I going to say? What was she going to say? Was she going to break my heart?
Now, let's look at this. I had a professional relationship with my old therapist. She had always treated me professionally. I depended on her a lot - she had the power to hurt me a lot. But panicking over her going to a meeting that she wouldn't be going to? There was no reason for her to go to the meeting. And why could she destroy me by NOT saying particular things? It doesn't make sense. My new therapist said "This is totally out of proportion". And, of course, he is right. He said "This is not about your old therapist, this is about your mother. You can't fix this by talking about your old therapist, you need to talk about your mother". Right again. See, my mother doesn't understand emotions so I felt that she was disengaged from me. My old therapist stopped understanding me (it's a long story), so I felt that SHE was disengaged, too. So the pain that I have over my mother being disengaged shows up when I think about my old therapist. My current pain is about my mother.
So you say: "But if I don't go back to him I know I will kill myself."
That is out of proportion. You have a professional relationship with this man (was there more?). Would you kill yourself if you had to get a new lawyer? or accountant? or real estate agent? There is more to this than just Michael. I don't know what in your past this is bringing up for you, but I really think that it must be bringing something up.
A couple of weeks after I left my old therapist I started feeling better than I had felt in a year and a half. I was able to step back and we started talking about other things. The agony didn't come back until that back to school night. But my new therapist can be objective enough to see what is really happening. I couldn't do this work with my old therapist - I was too tied up needing her, and she had her own issues that made it hard for her to help me.
For me, it was really important to get away from a therapy situation that was too knotted up. In many cases, I think that it is important for people to work things out with the therapist who they are having the problem with. But I think that when the therapy situation is too far out of control (like mine was), or when the patient is out of control (maybe you are, right now?), that an external therapist can be really helpful.
If you don't want to give Michael up forever, maybe you could see your new therapist as a consultant. She could help you get a handle on what is going on with you and Michael, and then you could make a decision about where you should be.
You say so many solid things about Loreta. She is working on your self esteem - that is critical. You feel that she would be better for you (if you can just get this pain to go away). You sound calmer when you talk about her.
Michael made a threat and then backed out. Psychoanalysis is supposed to be bad for Borderline patients. And your emotions for him are so extreme.
Can you talk to Loreta tomorrow before you talk to Michael? Tell her what is going on and ask her what she thinks? Why do you have to call him back tomorrow? What would happen if you called on Thursday instead?
These are such hard decisions. I know. I was in agony, and I never was sure that what I was doing was right. But I know now that it was.
I hope you can make some sense from all of this. Please let me know what you decide.
This is the end of the thread.
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