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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 18:16:58
In reply to Re: Yes. It helps. » beardedlady, posted by Miller on February 7, 2003, at 17:14:36
I love this part:
> I feel I am doing better. The hardest part of all of this is try to readjust to being back in my life. I honestly feel like a visitor in someone else's life right now. I am sure I will feel the same (if not stronger) on Monday when I am going back to work.You're already doing great. Love it. You're not dumping at all. Thanks for sharing your triumphs.
Beardy : )>
Posted by Miller on February 7, 2003, at 20:59:37
In reply to Not dumping at all., posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 18:16:58
Beardy,
Thanks for your support. I can see now why the hospital kept talking about reintergrating back into "normal life". It's not as easy as a person would think.
I am probably more scared to be well than I was ever about my depression and desperation. At least I was used to those feelings. I don't know if I am a strong enough person to be well.
If a person gives up their "escape hatch" of suicide, what replaces it? What if I can't give it up?
Too many unknowns right now. Yikes.
-Miller
Posted by beardedlady on February 8, 2003, at 5:58:07
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » beardedlady, posted by Miller on February 7, 2003, at 20:59:37
Miller,
I was wondering what you meant about giving up the escape hatch of suicide, but then I realize that everyone has an escape hatch. Mine is a sleeping pill. I know that it's there if I need it.
Fortunately for me, the sleeping pill isn't the end of my life. (It's something I loathe, even though it doesn't even give me a hangover.)
Maybe you and your therapist can come up with a new escape hatch. Or maybe that escape hatch can always be there, but you just won't ever think about it.
So keep it around, but make it difficult to find by surrounding yourself with feel-good things.
Look at getting well as something you deserve. Own it. Take charge of it. Say dammit, this is mine! Isn't worthiness one of your major esteem issues anyway? Once you begin to believe you are worthy of getting well, you'll probably have this landslide: you'll brighten, you'll feel better, you'll feel you deserve to be better, you'll fight any feelings to feel bad, etc.
So let's try to focus here on all the positive things that will happen to you. Your babbler buds believe in you. Now it's your turn.
Good luck. See you next week.
beardy : )>
Posted by Miller on February 8, 2003, at 14:10:27
In reply to escape hatch » Miller, posted by beardedlady on February 8, 2003, at 5:58:07
Yes, you are right. Maybe I will never be able to totally give up my escape hatch. But, if I feel like I don't need it, maybe it won't keep appearing to me in such a seductive way.
Esteem issues are a valid point. I am working on them, as suggested. There may just come a time when I feel strong enough to believe in my own strength and even my own weaknesses.
Thanks for everything. Especially the faith.
-Miller
Posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:30:51
In reply to Journaling--Does it help?, posted by Miller on February 3, 2003, at 21:28:36
I'm back to trying to at least keep a mood chart, and maybe journalling as well. I get intimidated by that blank sheet though. I'm one of those people who need an idea before I can write, otherwise I sit with a mind as blank as my sheet. I tried one of those journalling books with suggestions for what to write, but the things they mentioned didn't inspire me at all.
Posted by judy1 on February 10, 2003, at 1:52:08
In reply to Re: Miller, you've inspired me. » Miller, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:30:51
sometimes I just start with an idea from a post here, you've written several really good questions in the last few days- could that be a start? take care, judy
Posted by Miller on February 10, 2003, at 21:22:30
In reply to Re: Miller, you've inspired me. » Miller, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:30:51
Dinah,
I was really concerned with how to start writing. But what I found is that even if I don't have a "creative" idea, there are always the old stand-by issues. Always, my parents are a great place for me to start. So, if I am looking at a blank page and don't already have a game plan, I begin with some thoughts about a parent. Twelve pages later, I learn something. :) I have learned that the theory of "real love" which is the ability to give something I never had, has made me able to give compassion to mother. It has allowed me to give love (without an expectation of receiving) to my dad. I am also working on trying to give forgiveness and understanding to people who never gave me the same.
One huge issue I deal with is irrelevance. So many people, for so long, have made me feel as if I don't matter. I have high hopes that by journaling, I will be able to see that I DO matter. I want to believe it. Oh, if only it were that easy.
So don't dwell on creativity or specific subjects, just get feelings out. It feels good to be able to get them out. I never would have thought I would say that. But, for once in my life I am being honest. And I am being honest to myself, which is really close to a miracle.
I hope you are able to have the relief I have found. Let's hope it will be enough.
Good luck, my friend.
-Miller
Posted by rayww on February 22, 2003, at 11:02:20
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » beardedlady, posted by Miller on February 7, 2003, at 20:59:37
One thing I haven't quite figured out about PB etiquette is if it's polite to add a comment to a post that is directed to another individual. Whether polite or not I would like to make a comment on your
"If a person gives up their "escape hatch" of suicide, what replaces it? What if I can't give it up? "Suicide is like entering into a black hole, where you perceive nothing else exists but the black hole. What might replace that? Imagination.
Lets imaginate.
Let your mind soar until it can picture the most perfect personal world for you. Cummon-play along, no pain, no weeds, beautiful gardens, floaty pillowy lovely relationships with people, you are sought after, popular, admired, respected, gifted, part of a connected happy family, animals are clean, odor free, friendly, cuddly, no mess, no dishes, but delicious meals and plenty of fresh food to keep you thin and healthy. Keep this rolling.Now imagine that Heaven is simply the perfection of the world we create here. And, continue to imagine that if you suicide, you will be stuck for eternity in the exact place you are trying to escape from. Don't leave early, unless what you have right now is all you want. Endure and fix what you can while you are here. Imagine that God will take care of the "rest" in His own due time. Trust His timing.
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_cor/2/9#9If you can do nothing more, love God. The power of that love you feel for Him is strong enough to lead you through life.
http://scriptures.lds.org/mark/12/30#30
Posted by Miller on February 22, 2003, at 14:35:53
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » Miller, posted by rayww on February 22, 2003, at 11:02:20
Rayww,
Whether it is against etiquette or not, I appreciate the words of hope.
The way I read the first scripture you linked for me is that there is no way I can comprehend what awaits for me in heaven (if I get that far). So everything that I think is ggo and nice, will be multiplied too many times fo rme to realize if I am accepted in. Did I read it right?
I have never figured out if it is my depression or if it is my way to grieve when I attempt suicide. I wish I knew.
I can assure you that I am trying very hard ot better myself. Not for me, but for those who love me and for the hope that I can once again find my Faith.
Thank you for caring enough to respond and support my anxieties. :)
-Miller
Posted by PuraVida on February 23, 2003, at 22:34:15
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » Miller, posted by rayww on February 22, 2003, at 11:02:20
I've been journaling for about 20 years, and it has been really good. First, I have been able to go back and review what the real underlying things have been in my life. For instance, in one very LT relationsip I had myself talked out of kids and marriage - finally I realized, and my journals backed this up - that I did want kids and marriage - I had just slowly talked myself into denial of it over the years, cuz the guy wasn't right. Looking back over what your dreams were "back then" helps too - to refresh, support, reinspire. The one thing I have noticed, which I will warn about, is that I tend NOT to write when all is wonderful, usually because I am so busy with my friends, boyfriend, activities. So, sometimes I look back at my journals and see depressive cycle after cycle. It helps then to get the photos out - that is what happens during the good times - Regardless, journaling is awesome.
PVG, journaling a lot lately, and hoping there will be some picture taking times very soon -
PS Miller - I read what you said about being a visitor in your own life. I just got back from a long trip, and felt exactly the same way when I returned. It was very, very eerie! Hope you are settling back in well - it's been a challenge for me.
Posted by Miller on February 24, 2003, at 16:33:46
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all., posted by PuraVida on February 23, 2003, at 22:34:15
Thank you for the supportive words. I have found it is kind of hard to get into the habit of writing on a regular basis. I think of things during the day (whenever) that I want to write about, but then it seems life gets in the way.
I'll keep trying though.-Miller
Posted by Rach on March 1, 2003, at 6:27:58
In reply to Journaling--Does it help?, posted by Miller on February 3, 2003, at 21:28:36
I want to answer before I read the rest of the posts (so sorry if I repeat stuff).
It really helps me. i used to keep a diary when i was a kid, but stopped once I got to about 17. I'm 21, and have started keeping a journal again. I used to have trouble writing because it seemed like such an effort, and I felt like I had to write pages and pages. Now I've given myself permission to write as little or as much as I like, whenever I like, however often I like. I tend to write at least once a week. Sometimes it's pages, sometimes it's a single line.
I started writing a journal again for two reasons. One, because I have a terrible memory, and I forget a lot of events and funny memories, so it's like my storage box for those things. And two, because a lot of the time my thoughts are better out of my head than inside. Particularly if I'm down, I can get all that crap that I'm feeling down on the page, and it definitely diminishes the intensity of the feelings. Sometimes I might have to write repeatedly about things, but eventually it helps to quiet my head.
One good thing is to write so fast that you barely have time to think about what you are writing. I often discover my true feelings about things by writing this way. Admittedly, I often have trouble reading it because I have to write so fast! It is so weird to come back and read something that I wrote only 10mins ago, and not remember a word of it. Just pure thought that hasn't been screened by my head. I screen my 'voice' constantly, even writing in my journal, I edit and re-edit my words as I write them.
The only problem I see with it is if someone else finds it. I'm lucky because I know there is very little chance of someone reading my journal. But it would be a problem if someone did find it. It's not necessarily a true indication of how I'm feeling, because when I'm really happy and having fun I don't have time (and I don't really want to take the time) to sit down and record it all. Also, sometimes I may write about other people. It's not necessarily my entire feelings about them, just some aspect that is bugging me in particular. That's the main problem - someone reading it and believing that it gives a true indication of you as a person.
whew. I guess I'm in one of those pages and pages moods...
Posted by Rach on March 1, 2003, at 6:43:26
In reply to Re: Miller, you've inspired me. » Miller, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:30:51
> I'm one of those people who need an idea before I can write, otherwise I sit with a mind as blank as my sheet.
For me, I don't journal unless I already have a thought in my head. I'll be wandering around my house (or wherever) and think of something. Either it's an interesting concept, or it's a concern that is on repeat in my head, or I just sit down and write down the internal dialogue going on.
So you're looking at the blank page wondering what to write? Then write exactly that -
"I'm sitting here wondering what the hell to write. This blank page is staring at me, daring me to have just one interesting thought worth spoiling its pristine condition. Ha ha! Too late - I've already written three and a half sentences. Or should that be five? I'm confused - now I'm sitting here, stressing over whether I should count the sentence I'm in the middle of writing, or if the count should only include previously finished sentences. I'm thinking, how many people are going to read this, count the sentences I wrote, and point out that, well, technically, I'd written 4 sentences, because ha ha isn't a properly constructed sentence. Damn perfectionism..."
In my above post I mentioned writing as fast as you can. That way, you might be able to bypass your conscious editor and write what you truly feel.
Good luck and enjoy!
Posted by Rach on March 1, 2003, at 6:48:33
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all., posted by PuraVida on February 23, 2003, at 22:34:15
>The one thing I have noticed, which I will warn about, is that I tend NOT to write when all is wonderful, usually because I am so busy with my friends, boyfriend, activities.
I've just realised I'm a little different in that respect. If I am really deeply in a depressive episode, I can't be bothered writing. So in my journal you get a more contemplative, "crawling up" or "sliding down" view into my life.
Posted by Rach on March 1, 2003, at 6:51:03
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » PuraVida, posted by Miller on February 24, 2003, at 16:33:46
> I think of things during the day (whenever) that I want to write about, but then it seems life gets in the way.
Could you jot the thought/s down at the time on a scrap of paper, and then stick it into your journal later?
Posted by KrissyP on March 9, 2003, at 0:05:59
In reply to Journaling--Does it help?, posted by Miller on February 3, 2003, at 21:28:36
Hi, I'm new to this board (I have been posting at Psycho-babble for about a week) I kept a journal for 3 years and it did indeed help for me. May I suggest going out and buying a nice pad of paper( the one with the cardboard back) or a nice journal-depending on what you like? I found this to be a start.
About the negatives, when I wrote and got all this crap out of me, I felt better. BUT, it also may bring up some feelings that you NEED to jot down. These feelings can be good and/or bad-but go with it and I truly believe it will help
Good luck:-)
Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------During my week of hell, it was suggested to me to try to start journaling. I have never kept a diary or journaled. Does it help? How do I start? Are there any negatives to it?
Any advise would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for the imput.
-Miller
Posted by kyp on March 10, 2003, at 12:38:57
In reply to Re: Not dumping at all. » Miller, posted by Rach on March 1, 2003, at 6:51:03
Ahh, journaling. Where would I start? Journaling has been my breath for, how long now?
I journal, I journal, I journal.
I write when I am happy, depressed, have questions, have answers, want to gripe and especially when I want to document. I keep a record of how I felt that day, what caused changes in my mood etc.I have gotten to the point in my therapy, to trust my therapist enough to let her read what I honestly write. Some things I can express there, that I can't express to her face to face or feel my thoughts are too "out there".
She reads the journal at home and then in therapy,commments on parts she feels would be theraputic or I bring up parts I feel would be. Or I read parts in session when I can not remember how I was going to word something that happened to me. I write dreams, and together we interpret them.I copy down memories. I make up stories.I write in the other mindsets and they write back so I can document conversations in my head.I write ideas for art projects, lists, and sometimes just scribble because no words can come, to explain how I am feeling.I write my responses to books I read or conversations I hear or speakers I have listened to.
I know I get obsessed with writing occasionally. At times, it is essential I have it with me even when I go places. I think up things while I am driving and write them down.
I feel that over the years when I had no therapist, it was my therapy. Now that I do have therapy, it adds.
For people whom journaling does not come easily, there are lots of exercises to start with. You could just write for 5 minutes whatever comes to your mind, even if it is about not having anything to say, this is called a "quick write".
You can list positives and negatives of journaling.You can describe your day, then describe how you felt about each aspect of those activites. Journal what you would like to say to ... but don't.
List what you hate, or what you appreciate.There are lots of books to get you started. I use pens I feel comfortable with and blank books that will stay open without trying to work at pressing them open in order to put pen to paper, that inspire me.
www.campsark.com is a site of an author who writes books in her own handwriting with little stick figure type drawings pulled from her personal journaling and they are very inspirational to say the least !
Just start! You may get addicted!
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2003, at 20:29:27
In reply to journaling, posted by kyp on March 10, 2003, at 12:38:57
Posted by Krissy P on March 12, 2003, at 0:10:49
In reply to journaling, posted by kyp on March 10, 2003, at 12:38:57
Posted by kyp on March 12, 2003, at 7:48:55
In reply to Re: Journaling--Does it help? » Miller, posted by KrissyP on March 9, 2003, at 0:05:59
Krissy P,
You said you did it for about 3 years. Do you see a need anymore or did it fulfill the need and it is now gone? Maybe it cured you ?!!!
Janet
Posted by Krissy P on March 12, 2003, at 9:13:20
In reply to Re: Journaling » KrissyP, posted by kyp on March 12, 2003, at 7:48:55
Hi Janet,
Journaling helped me a lot. When I went back and looked at some of the stuff I wrote, I was like: wow-I've really come a long way. I haven't felt a need to do it anymore, for about 5 years, although when I was really crashing in December 2002 (moved back home-went OFF some meds, etc.) I tried to start again and continue, but I didn't, went back on Effexor and Lamictal, toughed things out, and currently am not journaling and am doing pretty good. Are you journaling? Does it help you?
All the best, Kristen
==================================================================================================Krissy P,
You said you did it for about 3 years. Do you see a need anymore or did it fulfill the need and it is now gone? Maybe it cured you ?!!!
Janet
Posted by kyp on March 12, 2003, at 9:28:35
In reply to Re: Journaling » kyp, posted by Krissy P on March 12, 2003, at 9:13:20
YES, it helps me as told in my post. It works SO well for me that I falsely assume it works the same for everyone else in the world . he he
Janet
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 19:46:10
In reply to Re: I tried, but I couldn't do it. :( (nm), posted by Dinah on March 10, 2003, at 20:29:27
I can't seem to journal, but I have no problem writing posts. So, if I tried to journal as a letter to someone, maybe I could do it better. I could make it an ongoing letter to my therapist.
I think I'll give it a try.
Posted by judy1 on March 15, 2003, at 21:29:22
In reply to Re: I have an idea., posted by Dinah on March 15, 2003, at 19:46:10
Dinah, I regularly e-mail my shrink and I think he keeps the posts- so in a sense it is journaling with the added benefit of it going directly to my shrink so he monitors my moods. It works really well for me- judy
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2003, at 5:52:30
In reply to Re: I have an idea. » Dinah, posted by judy1 on March 15, 2003, at 21:29:22
You have a cool shrink. :)
Mine probably now has e-mail, but I think he's rather proud of not enjoying his computer. lol
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