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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 13:19:53
How badly do I need help?
If there is a problem, and you know the solution (along with the whys and wherefores), yet simply are emotionally unable to change, are you a lost cause?
Is medication really going to create that change or just help me to (possibly only temporarily) feel better about myself?
In therapy, I'm told what I seem to be feeling, and how ideally I should feel and have even been given several logical and positive solutions.
Yet I can't change my way of thinking.
I planned on starting this year a new person, yet I feel like more of a failure than I did before.
Why are my feelings getting progressively worse. Is this happening because I'm aging? I'm 36.
As much as I really don't want to, I have had thoughts of obliterating myself. I would never do it, though, because I have 2 precious children and a husband who love, accept and depend on me. I'm not that selfish (and hopefully won't become that way).
I really loathe myself. No matter how many books I read, no matter which therapist tells me the contrary, no matter how much my husband tells me he loves me, I still do. Aside from them, I feel like everyone else thinks I'm a loser/misfit. I have no charisma or wit and my short-term memory is faulty, usually because I'm so stressed out and unmotivated to do anything very constructive.
I would be more than happy to settle for being just an average person, nothing special, but somebody that people like and respect, and someone who comes across as OK.
Almost everyone takes me the wrong way. Even when I try to be positive, smile, don't talk too much, etc., many people treat me with contempt or disregard. It hurts so bad. I'm so tired of crying all the time.....
Posted by Miller on January 3, 2003, at 13:42:43
In reply to I know what I probably should do but I can't, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 13:19:53
Hi Worrygirl,
I will be 36 later this month. I don't think it has anything to do with your age. Are you on medication right now?
One thing I learned from a psychologist out of San Francisco who was nice enough to email me on several occasions without having ever met me, is that mental health has to be just as important to you as life itself. Faulty mental health created dangerous situations for yourself and your family.
I totally agree that it is hard to change thought processes. (Feel free to read many of my posts.) However, there is a part of you that wants a better life for yourself and your kids. In order to do that, you have to make a commitment to listen to your therapist, be honest, and to try his/her suggestions. Depression tends to come in cycles. So, the good news is that you may not have the energy or the ambition right now, but if you hang in there and have a little hope, you should be able to think more clearly soon. It's at that time you can get down to business.
A good start is being here on this board. All the people who post and read the comments are in the same struggle. It's kind of like an anonymous group therapy session. Use all the tools that are given and remember your life is worth trying.
I was telling another board that my shrink gave me an assignment (actually 3 ) last night. The one that may also be useful to you is to finish this statement: "I am the type of person..." By filling in the statement you will begin to understand yourself better. An example would be "I am the type of person that feels extremely sad when other people treat me with contempt or disregard" and "I am the type of person that would do anything to protect my children from harm." Once you have a list of your "types" you can then figure out how to help avoid conflicts that break your heart. Everyone will experience pain and sadness, but we don't need to set ourselves up for it. If you are honest with the list maybe you will see what kind of talents and great qualities you have missed giving yourself credit for.
-Miller
Posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 14:16:51
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by Miller on January 3, 2003, at 13:42:43
> Are you on medication right now?
No, although I'm at the point where I feel that it is my only option. My concern is that medications seem to merely relieve the symptoms, but not get rid of the underlying problem.> mental health has to be just as important to you as life itself.
You are absolutely right.> Depression tends to come in cycles. So, the good news is that you may not have the energy or the ambition right now, but if you hang in there and have a little hope, you should be able to think more clearly soon. It's at that time you can get down to business.
I am at an all-time low. A week ago I felt so inspired to get myself in shape emotionally. I hate feeling as weak as I do right now.> I was telling another board that my shrink gave me an assignment (actually 3 ) last night. The one that may also be useful to you is to finish this statement: "I am the type of person..." By filling in the statement you will begin to understand yourself better.
I will try this, although personal insight doesn't seem to be my problem as much as me not coming across well to others. I know that I have to like myself for others to like me - I'm just having a hard time liking myself.I do wonder why when everything in my life is going the way it should, my personal problems seem the worst they ever have.
Why when I was younger and sometimes treated horribly, did I feel that I was in better shape emotionally?Miller, thank you for your post. I will read some of your past ones and hopefully get more insight on thought processes.
Posted by Miller on January 3, 2003, at 14:23:59
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » Miller, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 14:16:51
Yikes!!! Don't read my past posts for insights!! I meant you should read them so you don't feel alone. **Do as I say, not as I do** :)
I think, from what you said, there may be something lacking in your personal insights. I only say that because of the fact you are so bothered by the impression you leave on others. My thought was if you try the assignment my shrink gave me, you will be able to pinpoint a strength or skill that you have that may be able to out weigh or fight the lesser ones.
I understand about feeling the walls are caveing in while the rest of your life seems so good. So, feel free to ask anything you want.
-Miller
Posted by mikhail99 on January 3, 2003, at 15:08:21
In reply to I know what I probably should do but I can't, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 13:19:53
> How badly do I need help?
> If there is a problem, and you know the solution (along with the whys and wherefores), yet simply are emotionally unable to change, are you a lost cause?Absolutely NOT! You are never a lost cause! Many of us know what we SHOULD do, it's finding the energy and stamina (and when you're in the middle of a bad episode, that's nearly impossible) to do those things.
> Is medication really going to create that change or just help me to (possibly only temporarily) feel better about myself?
Medication may help you find the strength to make those changes and you may only need it temporarily.
> In therapy, I'm told what I seem to be feeling, and how ideally I should feel and have even been given several logical and positive solutions.
> Yet I can't change my way of thinking.How long have you been in therapy? How often do you go?
> I planned on starting this year a new person, yet I feel like more of a failure than I did before.
> Why are my feelings getting progressively worse. Is this happening because I'm aging? I'm 36.
> As much as I really don't want to, I have had thoughts of obliterating myself. I would never do it, though, because I have 2 precious children and a husband who love, accept and depend on me. I'm not that selfish (and hopefully won't become that way).
> I really loathe myself. No matter how many books I read, no matter which therapist tells me the contrary, no matter how much my husband tells me he loves me, I still do. Aside from them, I feel like everyone else thinks I'm a loser/misfit. I have no charisma or wit and my short-term memory is faulty, usually because I'm so stressed out and unmotivated to do anything very constructive.
> I would be more than happy to settle for being just an average person, nothing special, but somebody that people like and respect, and someone who comes across as OK.
> Almost everyone takes me the wrong way. Even when I try to be positive, smile, don't talk too much, etc., many people treat me with contempt or disregard. It hurts so bad. I'm so tired of crying all the time.....
Your last paragraph really hit me hard, I recognized a lot of myself from the past in there. My therapist had me take a personality test to better understand my type and I found I'm an introvert but I think I've been fighting it my whole life. My own experience is that my being introverted has made it difficult for me to express myself in way that I'm understood by others and I know I come across in ways I never intended. (Geez, I hope this make sense.) I'm sure you're not a misfit or a loser and your depression is probably sapping every bit of energy that you would be using for wit or charm. :-) I'm sure if you talked to the people in your life that love you, they would tell you differently. I know when I feel this badly, I have no perspective about myself.
Worrygirl, one of the most important things for you to remember is that you won't always feel this badly. Don't give up on therapy and maybe talk to someone about medication. I try not to push it but in some cases, it can work wonders. It's helped me so much.Please take extra good care of yourself now and hang in there!
Mik
Posted by Noa on January 3, 2003, at 18:24:46
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by mikhail99 on January 3, 2003, at 15:08:21
For me, I would not have been able to make good use of therapy without medication--I was just too depressed.
I don't know, but when I read your post, one reaction I had was to how inadequate you seem to feel as a patient in therapy. You are berating yourself for not being a good enough patient--not changing your thoughts. Give yourself a break! You are in therapy for feeling inadequate, the last thing you need is for the therapy to make you feel inadequate.
Is there something about the therapy experience that might be causing that feeling?(if I am picking up correctly on this). Or is it possible you might neet to look into meds if the biological component is too strong for the cognitive to override it?
I don't know, but I hope you can be a little less harsh on yourself.
Posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 20:43:16
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't, posted by Noa on January 3, 2003, at 18:24:46
Thanks Noa,
I have the feeling that I need to start taking meds. I've been avoiding it because I'm afraid that I'll become dependent on them for the rest of my life. But feeling as badly as I have been these past few years (and it's only getting worse), I think I have no choice.
I guess I've still been hanging on to that one part of me that thinks I can handle this without drugs. Like I'm trying to prove that I'm strong enough on my own. But I'm not.
I guess I need to head back to the therapist, but the stress of arranging childcare for two small children, along with the expense, almost stresses me out enough to counteract what the therapist does!! My therapist felt that I needed to see him twice a week, but I only wanted to see him once every week or two. Why does it have to be all or nothing? I feel that I could get just as much benefit from the therapy 2-4 times a month instead of 8-10. If I felt like the therapy was improving me more, maybe I wouldn't be so hesitant. But I can't help feeling that as much as he cares about my well-being, he has to be concerned with his business, too, and make a buck just like everyone else. Is this terrible for me to feel this way?Thanks again
Posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 20:52:03
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by mikhail99 on January 3, 2003, at 15:08:21
>Many of us know what we SHOULD do, it's finding the energy and stamina (and when you're in the middle of a bad episode, that's nearly impossible) to do those things.
Mik,
This is exactly how I feel.> Medication may help you find the strength to make those changes and you may only need it temporarily.
I know this, but my fear is becoming dependent on the medication for the rest of my life. Everyone I know who is on one can't get off it.
> How long have you been in therapy? How often do you go?
I stopped going in the fall. I was going once a week, then twice a week, but the expense was enormous and I didn't feel that I was improving like I should. I had been seeing him for about 7 months.
>My therapist had me take a personality test to better understand my type and I found I'm an introvert but I think I've been fighting it my whole life. My own experience is that my being introverted has made it difficult for me to express myself in way that I'm understood by others and I know I come across in ways I never intended. (Geez, I hope this make sense).Yes, I understand and as talkative as I am sometimes, I wonder if I'm not also an introvert at heart. Don't laugh, but sometimes I think I have some loose screws that are supposed to connect my thought processes to my appropriate disclosures, but somehow don't. If it wasn't for that, I doubt that I would be very social at all. When I think about it, I've never been social simply because I enjoy it. There is always a lot of pressure for me to feel accepted. But nothing ever comes out right and others eventually shy away. I'm one of those strange birds who seems OK when you first meet me, but after a while people figure out something's wrong. Aarrrgghhhh!
Your words of encouragement mean a lot.
Thanks again.
Posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 20:56:09
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by Miller on January 3, 2003, at 14:23:59
> Yikes!!! Don't read my past posts for insights!! I meant you should read them so you don't feel alone. **Do as I say, not as I do** :)
Miller, don't worry I won't start sending you checks. But I will definitely read them because it will help to know there are others who have been there or understand.
>
> I think, from what you said, there may be something lacking in your personal insights. I only say that because of the fact you are so bothered by the impression you leave on others. My thought was if you try the assignment my shrink gave me, you will be able to pinpoint a strength or skill that you have that may be able to out weigh or fight the lesser ones.I am tremendously worried about what others think of me. It's a vicious cycle. The more I worry the less attractive I feel and obviously appear. When I try not to worry I tend to do better, but my mind won't allow me to stop worrying about it completely. I have a feeling medication is going to have to be my next step. Maybe they will be my miracle.
Thanks again
Posted by Miller on January 3, 2003, at 21:59:23
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » Miller, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 20:56:09
Medication will not your miracle. It will certainly help you feel better so you can focus on what you need to work on.
Medication is also a frustration. I have been on medication for only 7 months and this is my third kind. I am hoping we got it right this time.
I guess I thought by seeing a shrink and taking meds, I would "kick this thing" in a matter of a month or two. No such luck. In fact, I got much worse before I got better.
The good news is that I THINK I am on an upswing. Not just my mood but with my therapy as well. A couple of appointments ago, I wanted to cancel. My shrink said he DIDN'T want me to cancel. He said I should just come in and rant and rave and yell and scream or sit and cry, but to come in. I didn't so any of those things. I simply told him I didn't think the therapy was working and I am too frustrated to continue. His opinion is that I am improving, however, the reason I was feeling so much worse was that I am in an in-between stage that is unfamiliar to me. The uncertainty is making me panic and stress. He and I agreed that I would continue for a little while longer, and if I still didn't see results, I could rethink my decision to terminate. As much as I hate to admit it, I think he was right. Compared to a month ago, I am so much stronger and less unhappy.
Did you explain to your therapist about the expense involved with going to sessions multiple times a week and the stress it causes you? If he doesn't give you a price breal, maybe he will arrange an agreeable payment plan. That would certainly relieve some anxiety about going back.
You have already shown that you are strong enough to face your issues. That is the hardest part. My suggestion is that you try some meds, if you think they will help, and to talk to your therapist about sessions that can fit into your time slots and expense range. Again, I will repeat the good Dr.'s advise that therapy can be a matter of life and death. You can work out an arrangement. Have faith. You may want to start your meds and then figure out a way for the therapy to work out.
You will be fine. Look at all the support you have here. We don't judge and we will try to protect you from yourself. Aren't you the lucky one? :)
-Miller
Posted by mikhail99 on January 4, 2003, at 8:47:05
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » mikhail99, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 20:52:03
> >Many of us know what we SHOULD do, it's finding the energy and stamina (and when you're in the middle of a bad episode, that's nearly impossible) to do those things.
>
> Mik,
> This is exactly how I feel.
>
> > Medication may help you find the strength to make those changes and you may only need it temporarily.
>
> I know this, but my fear is becoming dependent on the medication for the rest of my life. Everyone I know who is on one can't get off it.Keep in mind there are medications that have some addictive qualities, like I had a BIG problem stopping paxil when I took it but there are plenty of medications that you can taper off of with no problem. Unless you're talking about feeling dependent on medication (like one can't get through life without it). That's a tough one, it's hard to know when (and more importantly if) you can and should stop medication. I think I'm becoming resigned to the fact that I may need it my whole life (unless they come up with a better way to treat depression). If you ever decide you want to try a medication, you can share all these concerns with a psychiatrist and together you can come up with some options that will work best for you. I do believe it's possible to do medication short-term, I just don't think that's the case for me.
>
> > How long have you been in therapy? How often do you go?
>
> I stopped going in the fall. I was going once a week, then twice a week, but the expense was enormous and I didn't feel that I was improving like I should. I had been seeing him for about 7 months.Do you think it would be worthwhile to see a different therapist? Maybe the one you saw wasn't a good fit? I think that happens and even though this is someone we develop a relationship with, we can be good consumers, ask questions and get recommendations about therapists from others. I don't know what to tell you about the expense but if it helps get you healthy, it's worth it.
>
> >My therapist had me take a personality test to better understand my type and I found I'm an introvert but I think I've been fighting it my whole life. My own experience is that my being introverted has made it difficult for me to express myself in way that I'm understood by others and I know I come across in ways I never intended. (Geez, I hope this make sense).
>
> Yes, I understand and as talkative as I am sometimes, I wonder if I'm not also an introvert at heart. Don't laugh, but sometimes I think I have some loose screws that are supposed to connect my thought processes to my appropriate disclosures, but somehow don't. If it wasn't for that, I doubt that I would be very social at all. When I think about it, I've never been social simply because I enjoy it. There is always a lot of pressure for me to feel accepted. But nothing ever comes out right and others eventually shy away. I'm one of those strange birds who seems OK when you first meet me, but after a while people figure out something's wrong. Aarrrgghhhh!
>I know EXACTLY what you mean about nothing ever comes out right, I feel like I'm just a walking offense whenever I open my mouth. :-) And I think you can be chatty and still be an introvert. I remembered the name of the test and you can find one online, it's called a Myers-Briggs test. It's really interesting to take, I was amazed how accurate it was after I read the results. Try this site: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
> Your words of encouragement mean a lot.
> Thanks again.Anytime Worrygirl, please take care of yourself!
Mik
Posted by Noa on January 4, 2003, at 9:52:49
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by mikhail99 on January 4, 2003, at 8:47:05
Hmm...just took that M-B type assessment. When I took it close to 20 years ago, I was an extrovert, now I'm an introvert.
Ok, it does say that the introvert factor is a weak one.
This is the problem with this test, though--the either or questions throw me because sometimes something is true, sometimes not. ON the Judging factor, for instance, I came out as very weak judging (1%), which basically means that I am almost at the 50-50 line between judging and its counterpart (is it sensing, I think?).
The only element I came out in the moderate range for is feeling. No surprise there, of course.
So, the test doesn't mean much to me. But it is fun to take anyway. Thanks. for the link.
Posted by fuzzymind on January 5, 2003, at 1:19:15
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't, posted by Noa on January 3, 2003, at 18:24:46
> For me, I would not have been able to make good use of therapy without medication--I was just too depressed.
>
> I don't know, but when I read your post, one reaction I had was to how inadequate you seem to feel as a patient in therapy. You are berating yourself for not being a good enough patient--not changing your thoughts. Give yourself a break! You are in therapy for feeling inadequate, the last thing you need is for the therapy to make you feel inadequate.
>
> Is there something about the therapy experience that might be causing that feeling?(if I am picking up correctly on this). Or is it possible you might neet to look into meds if the biological component is too strong for the cognitive to override it?
>
> I don't know, but I hope you can be a little less harsh on yourself.My shrink made me feel inadequate and a faliure also. But 3 years later, I still went back to her. Just another example of not knowing how to deal with people.Again she shunned me and purposely missed our final appointment. I want to call her home and yell at her. Too wishy washy to sue. Well I didn't try hard enough, never did the home work aingments, but for crying out loud, I am very depressed and suicidal. Did she think a few months of zoloft would snap me out of things? Lots of crooks out there. I am always being taken advantae of and I don't know how to fight it off.
Posted by fuzzymind on January 5, 2003, at 1:30:31
In reply to I know what I probably should do but I can't, posted by WorryGirl on January 3, 2003, at 13:19:53
I know all about CBT and how interpretations of events and of how people treat you and what they say to you cause anxiety and depression. THe events themselves cannot. But I feel I am too far behind in life....12 years too late. Plus I can't get over anxiety over racism...many time when I walked down the street when I was in college, some jerk would mutter to me "chink" or something similar, and I still remember those events and it still enrages me. ALso, I have a convenient excue for not doing anything...my obesity. During 90 degree weather, I still wear jackets to hide my gut and fat!! I have such a poor self body image, I am unwilling to go back to summer school because of how uncomfortable I would feel. It's all in my head, I know, but I also know there are some realities that I cannot avoid, and to me those aren't in my head.
Posted by WorryGirl on January 8, 2003, at 16:09:14
In reply to Re: I know what I probably should do but I can't » WorryGirl, posted by mikhail99 on January 4, 2003, at 8:47:05
This is the end of the thread.
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