![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 77. Go back in thread:
Posted by sowhysosad on April 21, 2009, at 7:26:14
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by sowhysosad on April 21, 2009, at 7:08:07
Due to sleep deprivation and general stupidity I just posted without even reading the research, thinking it was this old chestnut:
Résumé / Abstract
Rationale: The selective serotonin uptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine has been shown to not only increase the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine extracellular concentrations in rat prefrontal cortex. The effect of other SSRIs on monoamine concentrations in prefrontal cortex has not been thoroughly studied. Objective: The aim of this study was to compare the ability of five systemically administered selective serotonin uptake inhibitors to increase acutely the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in rat prefrontal cortex. Methods: The extracellular concentrations of monoamines were determined in the prefrontal cortex of conscious rats using the microdialysis technique. Results: Fluoxetine, citalopram, fluvoxamine, paroxetine and sertraline similarly increased the extracellular concentrations of serotonin from 2- to 4-fold above baseline. However, only fluoxetine produced robust and sustained increases in extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine after acute systemic administration. Fluoxetine at the same dose blocked ex vivo binding to the serotonin transporter, but not the norepinephrine transporter, suggesting that the increase of catecholamines was not due to non-selective blockade of norepinephrine uptake. Prefrontal cortex extracellular concentrations of fluoxetine at the dose that increased extracellular monoamines were 242 nM, a concentration sufficient to block 5-HT2C receptors which is a potential mechanism for the fluoxetine-induced increase in catecholamines. Conclusion: Amongst the SSRIs examined, only fluoxetine acutely increases extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine as well as serotonin in prefrontal cortex, suggesting that fluoxetine is an atypical SSRI.I'm far too tired to get my head around that second piece of research that Amelia posted - is it contradicting other studies which say SSRI's reduce D2 receptor availability? Does the reduced binding potential mean the fluoxetine is acting as a D2 antagonist? I've also previously read that SSRI's supersensitise D2 receptors. My brain hurts...
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 26, 2009, at 17:43:58
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by sowhysosad on April 21, 2009, at 7:26:14
> Due to sleep deprivation and general stupidity I just posted without even reading the research, thinking it was this old chestnut:
>
> Résumé / Abstract
> Rationale: The selective serotonin uptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine has been shown to not only increase the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine extracellular concentrations in rat prefrontal cortex. The effect of other SSRIs on monoamine concentrations in prefrontal cortex has not been thoroughly studied. Objective: The aim of this study was to compare the ability of five systemically administered selective serotonin uptake inhibitors to increase acutely the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in rat prefrontal cortex. Methods: The extracellular concentrations of monoamines were determined in the prefrontal cortex of conscious rats using the microdialysis technique. Results: Fluoxetine, citalopram, fluvoxamine, paroxetine and sertraline similarly increased the extracellular concentrations of serotonin from 2- to 4-fold above baseline. However, only fluoxetine produced robust and sustained increases in extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine after acute systemic administration. Fluoxetine at the same dose blocked ex vivo binding to the serotonin transporter, but not the norepinephrine transporter, suggesting that the increase of catecholamines was not due to non-selective blockade of norepinephrine uptake. Prefrontal cortex extracellular concentrations of fluoxetine at the dose that increased extracellular monoamines were 242 nM, a concentration sufficient to block 5-HT2C receptors which is a potential mechanism for the fluoxetine-induced increase in catecholamines. Conclusion: Amongst the SSRIs examined, only fluoxetine acutely increases extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine as well as serotonin in prefrontal cortex, suggesting that fluoxetine is an atypical SSRI.
>
> I'm far too tired to get my head around that second piece of research that Amelia posted - is it contradicting other studies which say SSRI's reduce D2 receptor availability? Does the reduced binding potential mean the fluoxetine is acting as a D2 antagonist? I've also previously read that SSRI's supersensitise D2 receptors. My brain hurts...I think all this far too complicated for us depressed brain foggers. Fx, the insomnia caused by the SSRI's could cause increased dopamine in the following day, because the brain is compensating for the lack of sleep. However I do feel that most SSRI side effects and things like hyperprolactima are definite pointers toward inhibition of dopamine.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 26, 2009, at 17:48:50
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 26, 2009, at 17:43:58
Also I think there's a difference between acute admnistration and long term adminitstration. Fx the brain in reponse to the huge increase in serotonin made say "F*ck man, lets pump out some dopamine to balance things out", so you get an increase dopamine, then you take an SSRI again and the brain again says "F*ck it man, keep that dopamine going, pump it up!", then after a period of weeks or months "The adujustment period", the brain just says"f*ck it, no more, we'll just get used to all that f*ck*ng serotonin and stop pumpting the dopamine" and that's when stuff like SSRI apathy, fatigue and PSSD complications set in.
Posted by sowhysosad on April 26, 2009, at 22:30:20
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 26, 2009, at 17:48:50
> Also I think there's a difference between acute admnistration and long term adminitstration. Fx the brain in reponse to the huge increase in serotonin made say "F*ck man, lets pump out some dopamine to balance things out", so you get an increase dopamine, then you take an SSRI again and the brain again says "F*ck it man, keep that dopamine going, pump it up!", then after a period of weeks or months "The adujustment period", the brain just says"f*ck it, no more, we'll just get used to all that f*ck*ng serotonin and stop pumpting the dopamine" and that's when stuff like SSRI apathy, fatigue and PSSD complications set in.
You could be right. Weirdly though, SSRI's can also increase dopamine through other mechanisms. As I understand it, the dopamine reuptake pump starts to soak up some of that excess serotonin floating around, thus preventing reuptake of dopamine and leaving more in the synapse. Maybe that's how fluoxetine boosts dopamine in some parts of the brain?
After 3+ years on escitalopram followed by a lovely bout of sertraline-induced akathisia, it feels like I've been in a hypodopaminergic state for like 8 months now. All the symptoms seem to bear this out. Other AD's I've taken in the meantime seem to have somehow made it worse. As I mentioned elsewhere, NADH seems to be reversing the effect, thank f***.
Posted by Meltingpot on May 17, 2009, at 10:25:42
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by desolationrower on March 4, 2009, at 20:54:14
Hi,
I thought wellbutrin acted more on norepinephrine thant on dopamine??
Denise
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on May 17, 2009, at 10:41:41
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion to d/r, posted by Meltingpot on May 17, 2009, at 10:25:42
> Hi,
>
> I thought wellbutrin acted more on norepinephrine thant on dopamine??
>
> Denise
I think there are some conflicting views on that. Some sources say that wellbutrin equally inhibits NA and DA uptake, and some say it inhibits NA more than DA, and some DA more than NA. You might be right though. Why do you ask?
Posted by Meltingpot on May 17, 2009, at 11:19:12
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion to d/r, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on May 17, 2009, at 10:41:41
Hi,
That was a quick response :-) I ask because I tried Wellbutrin 350mg for two weeks and I felt nothing on it. I was thinking/hoping that perhaps this is because it does not act on dopamine so much as norepinephrine.
The reason I hoped this was the case was because at some point I would like to try a dopamine agonist but if Wellbutrin does act strongly on dopamine then this would increase my chances of not responding to a dopamine agonist.
Denise
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on May 17, 2009, at 11:39:47
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion to d/r, posted by Meltingpot on May 17, 2009, at 11:19:12
> Hi,
>
> That was a quick response :-) I ask because I tried Wellbutrin 350mg for two weeks and I felt nothing on it. I was thinking/hoping that perhaps this is because it does not act on dopamine so much as norepinephrine.
>
> The reason I hoped this was the case was because at some point I would like to try a dopamine agonist but if Wellbutrin does act strongly on dopamine then this would increase my chances of not responding to a dopamine agonist.
>
> Denise
I don't think you should use Wellbutrin as your reference for a dopamine agonist. There's a lot of other definitive dopamine drugs out there.
Posted by garnet71 on May 17, 2009, at 16:32:03
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion to d/r, posted by Meltingpot on May 17, 2009, at 11:19:12
The last time I tried Wellbutrin, it did not work at all for me; a few weeks later, I started taking dextro-amp which works much of the time....though I can't see it as a long term solution..However, I don't think Wellbutrin is comparable to other psychotropics-at least none I know of...
450 mg of WB worked best for me in the past....
Don't give up :-)
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on May 18, 2009, at 23:30:16
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by sowhysosad on April 26, 2009, at 22:30:20
I have cited studies that conclude exactly that (and specifically in regards to fluoxetine). Maybe in this thread? Anyway, yes, I believe that's what happens.
>, As I understand it, the dopamine reuptake pump starts to soak up some of that excess serotonin floating around, thus preventing reuptake of dopamine and leaving more in the synapse. Maybe that's how fluoxetine boosts dopamine in some parts of the brain?
>
Posted by desolationrower on May 19, 2009, at 0:44:55
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » sowhysosad, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on May 18, 2009, at 23:30:16
yeah, studies different NA/DA effect of wellbutrin. and it might be an na releaser. or wrok by tnf-alpha inhibition. i don't think you can say its the same as pramiprexole or d-amp or desipramine.
-d/r
Posted by SLS on May 20, 2009, at 5:44:34
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by sowhysosad on April 26, 2009, at 22:30:20
> > Also I think there's a difference between acute admnistration and long term adminitstration. Fx the brain in reponse to the huge increase in serotonin made say "F*ck man, lets pump out some dopamine to balance things out", so you get an increase dopamine, then you take an SSRI again and the brain again says "F*ck it man, keep that dopamine going, pump it up!", then after a period of weeks or months "The adujustment period", the brain just says"f*ck it, no more, we'll just get used to all that f*ck*ng serotonin and stop pumpting the dopamine" and that's when stuff like SSRI apathy, fatigue and PSSD complications set in.
>
> You could be right. Weirdly though, SSRI's can also increase dopamine through other mechanisms. As I understand it, the dopamine reuptake pump starts to soak up some of that excess serotonin floating around, thus preventing reuptake of dopamine and leaving more in the synapse. Maybe that's how fluoxetine boosts dopamine in some parts of the brain?
Don't forget circuitry.I think it has more to do with serotoninergic pathways modulating dopaminergic neurotransmission downstream. Perhaps there is a dysinhibition of dopamine activity as specific 5-HT receptors downregulate as a result of chronic exposure to SRI drugs like fluoxetine. Fluoxetine is a strange drug that is often considered to be an atypical SSRI. It does more than just inhibit the reuptake of serotonin.
- Scott
*********************************************Fluoxetine, but not other selective serotonin uptake inhibitors, increases norepinephrine and dopamine extracellular levels in prefrontal cortex
by
Bymaster FP, Zhang W, Carter PA,
Shaw J, Chernet E, Phebus L, Wong DT, Perry KW.
Neuroscience Research Division,
Lilly Research Laboratories,
Lilly Corporate Center, Indianapolis, IN 46285-0510, USA.
F.Bymaster@Lilly.com
Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 Apr;160(4):353-61ABSTRACT
RATIONALE: The selective serotonin uptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine has been shown to not only increase the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine extracellular concentrations in rat prefrontal cortex. The effect of other SSRIs on monoamine concentrations in prefrontal cortex has not been thoroughly studied. OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to compare the ability of five systemically administered selective serotonin uptake inhibitors to increase acutely the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in rat prefrontal cortex. METHODS: The extracellular concentrations of monoamines were determined in the prefrontal cortex of conscious rats using the microdialysis technique. RESULTS: Fluoxetine, citalopram, fluvoxamine, paroxetine and sertraline similarly increased the extracellular concentrations of serotonin from 2- to 4-fold above baseline. However, only fluoxetine produced robust and sustained increases in extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine after acute systemic administration. Fluoxetine at the same dose blocked ex vivo binding to the serotonin transporter, but not the norepinephrine transporter, suggesting that the increase of catecholamines was not due to non-selective blockade of norepinephrine uptake. Prefrontal cortex extracellular concentrations of fluoxetine at the dose that increased extracellular monoamines were 242 nM, a concentration sufficient to block 5-HT(2C) receptors which is a potential mechanism for the fluoxetine-induced increase in catecholamines. CONCLUSION: Amongst the SSRIs examined, only fluoxetine acutely increases extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine as well as serotonin in prefrontal cortex, suggesting that fluoxetine is an atypical SSRI.
Posted by SLS on May 20, 2009, at 5:46:21
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by sowhysosad on April 26, 2009, at 22:30:20
> > Also I think there's a difference between acute admnistration and long term adminitstration. Fx the brain in reponse to the huge increase in serotonin made say "F*ck man, lets pump out some dopamine to balance things out", so you get an increase dopamine, then you take an SSRI again and the brain again says "F*ck it man, keep that dopamine going, pump it up!", then after a period of weeks or months "The adujustment period", the brain just says"f*ck it, no more, we'll just get used to all that f*ck*ng serotonin and stop pumpting the dopamine" and that's when stuff like SSRI apathy, fatigue and PSSD complications set in.
>
> You could be right. Weirdly though, SSRI's can also increase dopamine through other mechanisms. As I understand it, the dopamine reuptake pump starts to soak up some of that excess serotonin floating around, thus preventing reuptake of dopamine and leaving more in the synapse. Maybe that's how fluoxetine boosts dopamine in some parts of the brain?
Don't forget circuitry.I think it has more to do with serotoninergic pathways modulating dopaminergic neurotransmission downstream. Perhaps there is a dysinhibition of dopamine activity as specific 5-HT receptors downregulate as a result of chronic exposure to SRI drugs like fluoxetine. Fluoxetine is a strange drug that is often considered to be an atypical SSRI. It does more than just inhibit the reuptake of serotonin.
- Scott
*********************************************Fluoxetine, but not other selective serotonin uptake inhibitors, increases norepinephrine and dopamine extracellular levels in prefrontal cortex
by
Bymaster FP, Zhang W, Carter PA,
Shaw J, Chernet E, Phebus L, Wong DT, Perry KW.
Neuroscience Research Division,
Lilly Research Laboratories,
Lilly Corporate Center, Indianapolis, IN 46285-0510, USA.
F.Bymaster@Lilly.com
Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 Apr;160(4):353-61ABSTRACT
RATIONALE: The selective serotonin uptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine has been shown to not only increase the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, but also dopamine and norepinephrine extracellular concentrations in rat prefrontal cortex. The effect of other SSRIs on monoamine concentrations in prefrontal cortex has not been thoroughly studied. OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to compare the ability of five systemically administered selective serotonin uptake inhibitors to increase acutely the extracellular concentrations of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in rat prefrontal cortex. METHODS: The extracellular concentrations of monoamines were determined in the prefrontal cortex of conscious rats using the microdialysis technique. RESULTS: Fluoxetine, citalopram, fluvoxamine, paroxetine and sertraline similarly increased the extracellular concentrations of serotonin from 2- to 4-fold above baseline. However, only fluoxetine produced robust and sustained increases in extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine after acute systemic administration. Fluoxetine at the same dose blocked ex vivo binding to the serotonin transporter, but not the norepinephrine transporter, suggesting that the increase of catecholamines was not due to non-selective blockade of norepinephrine uptake. Prefrontal cortex extracellular concentrations of fluoxetine at the dose that increased extracellular monoamines were 242 nM, a concentration sufficient to block 5-HT(2C) receptors which is a potential mechanism for the fluoxetine-induced increase in catecholamines. CONCLUSION: Amongst the SSRIs examined, only fluoxetine acutely increases extracellular concentrations of norepinephrine and dopamine as well as serotonin in prefrontal cortex, suggesting that fluoxetine is an atypical SSRI.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 5, 2009, at 23:17:28
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » sowhysosad, posted by SLS on May 20, 2009, at 5:46:21
Hi I'm new to this board. You guys know that Zoloft is a Serotonin and Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, especially at doses of 100 and more?
Re: Zoloft and dopamine reuptake inhibition
Posted by halcyondaze on January 19, 2007, at 21:44:16
In reply to Zoloft and dopamine reuptake inhibition, posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 21:12:03
> I've been reading for a while that Zoloft is a mild dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Can anyone comment on how powerful a DA reuptake inhibitor it is with reference to others such as Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.?
>
> Has anyone noticed important differences between Zoloft and other SSRIs that could be attributed to DA reuptake inhibition?
>
> My main memories from the last trial of this med were appalling nausea and vomiting with diarrhea and genital anaesthesia. Any similar?
>
> I'm attracted by the Zoloft packaging - I like the idea of his little smiley face looking out at me at every morning:
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/Zoloft_logo.png
>
> QIt has far more dopamine reuptake inhibition than Wellbutrin. I have a chart from "Psychiatry Second Edition Therapeutics" by Wiley Publishing (editor: Alan Tasman) which is basically like a psychiatry Bible, with affinity (which equals 10^-7 x 1/Kd, where Kd equals the dissociation constant) and here are the numbers:
Serzone: approximately 0.3
Wellbutrin: approximately 0.2
Paxil: approximately 0.2
Zoloft: exactly 4.0
... with a bunch of the tricyclics and Prozac at less than 0.1.It is amazing, if you see the chart. Zoloft is over four times more potent in terms of DA reuptake inhibition than any of the others.
Post #1
So Fresh and So Clean
***Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 14-November 08
Member No.: 13899
I snagged these off the internet. Figured many would find these useful/interesting. I didn't take the pics, wish they were a little bit clearer.<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tygereyes83/Book.jpg >>
1) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING MUSCARINIC RECEPTORS
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger.../Muscarinic.jpg >>
2) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING HISTAMINIC RECEPTORS
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger.../Histaminic.jpg >>
3) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING THE REUPTAKE OF NOREPINEPHRINE
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger.../NEreuptake.jpg >>
4) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING ALPHA1ADRENORECEPTORS
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger...lpha1adreno.jpg >>
5) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING THE REUPTAKE OF SEROTONIN
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger...uptakeblock.jpg >>
6) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING 5HT-2A RECEPTORS
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger...ceptorblock.jpg >>
7) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING THE REUPTAKE OF DOPAMINE
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger...uptakeblock.jpg >>
8) RELATIVE AFFINITIES OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS FOR BLOCKING DOPAMINE RECEPTORS
<< http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/tyger...ceptorblock.jpg >>
Posted by Brainbeard on July 28, 2009, at 14:39:27
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion » SLS, posted by morganpmiller on June 5, 2009, at 23:17:28
> Hi I'm new to this board. You guys know that Zoloft is a Serotonin and Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, especially at doses of 100 and more?
> It has far more dopamine reuptake inhibition than Wellbutrin.
Yeah, but the gap between a drug's receptor affinities is what matters. Although sertraline's (Zoloft's) affinity for the dopamine reuptake pump is greater than that of bupropion (Wellbutrin), it is still 100 to 250 times smaller than sertraline's affinity for the serotonin reuptake pump. This means, as Dr. Preskorn argues, that 'the physician would have to increase the dose (ie, the concentration) of sertraline 100 times higher than that needed to inhibit the serotonin uptake pump before a comparable effect would be achieved on the dopamine uptake pump.' (Quoting from his online book: http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s3.html)
Affinity ratios thus have to be seen 'within the context of the actual affinity of the drug for a secondary SOA [Site Of Action] relative to its affinity for its primary SOA and relative to the clinically relevant concentration needed to produce the desired clinical effect.'
Preskorn has also written a column with a subheading titled: 'Is sertraline an inhibitor of dopamine uptake?' Discussing this question, Preskorn concludes that 'it is quite doubtful that sertraline has any meaningful effect on dopamine uptake at concentrations typically achieved at its recommended dosing range, 50-200 mg/day.' (http://www.preskorn.com/columns/9909.html, scroll down)
Discussing other pharmacological data that support this view, he further concludes that 'While this does not absolutely rule out an effect of sertraline on dopamine uptake at concentrations usually achieved on its recommended dosing range, it places the burden of proof on the proponent of such a theory.'
Interestingly, Preskorn mentions a patient who used sertraline 300-400mg several times a day to achieve a stimulant high.
I do think that Preskorn underestimates the effects that even mild inhibition of the dopamine reuptake pump apparently has for many people. Alternatively, if Preskorn is entirely right, the stimulating effects of (higher doses of) Zoloft may be due to a different, yet unknown mechanism.
It is interesting that Zoloft is a derivative of tametraline, a norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Quoting from the (excellent) Wikipedia article on sertraline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sertraline):'in 1977, pharmacologist Kenneth Koe, after comparing the structural features of a variety of reuptake inhibitors, became interested in the tametraline series. He asked another Pfizer chemist, Willard Welch, to synthesize some previously unexplored tametraline derivatives. Welch generated a number of potent norepinephrine and triple reuptake inhibitors, but to the surprise of the scientists, one representative of the generally inactive cis-analogs was a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Welch then prepared stereoisomers of this compound, which were tested in vivo by animal behavioral scientist Albert Weissman. The most potent and selective (+)-isomer was taken into further development and eventually named sertraline.'
I like to think that this chemical origin might contribute to Zoloft's stimulant profile in some intangible way.
Posted by morganpmiller on July 30, 2009, at 22:45:35
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by Brainbeard on July 28, 2009, at 14:39:27
Gotchya..I also think he underestimates the small effect of dopmamine reuptake inihibition. He's just one of those doctor's taking an extreme view and making a name for himself. Well, maybe not but it just seems many doctors do this, Dr. Peter Breggin being one of them.
Posted by Brainbeard on July 31, 2009, at 3:23:48
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by morganpmiller on July 30, 2009, at 22:45:35
Yeah, Breggin has this complete tunnel vision that makes him such an unscientific whiner and a waste for the in itself noble cause of fighting Big Pharma.
Posted by SLS on July 31, 2009, at 7:01:57
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by Brainbeard on July 31, 2009, at 3:23:48
> Yeah, Breggin has this complete tunnel vision that makes him such an unscientific whiner and a waste for the in itself noble cause of fighting Big Pharma.
Book sales and speaking engagements.
- Scott
Posted by Wanderer123 on August 30, 2009, at 19:15:06
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by SLS on July 31, 2009, at 7:01:57
So Prozac has caused me apathy which I suspect is Dopamine-related. I don't know why but it became permanent. The question is, can I take some supplements and herbs to re-boost my Dopamine if its been damaged by an SSRI? Please help.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 7, 2009, at 9:57:54
In reply to Is there a way to naturally increase Dopamine?, posted by Wanderer123 on August 30, 2009, at 19:15:06
> So Prozac has caused me apathy which I suspect is Dopamine-related. I don't know why but it became permanent. The question is, can I take some supplements and herbs to re-boost my Dopamine if its been damaged by an SSRI? Please help.
How long time since you went off Prozac?
Posted by Wanderer123 on September 7, 2009, at 10:40:31
In reply to Re: Is there a way to naturally increase Dopamine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 7, 2009, at 9:57:54
> > So Prozac has caused me apathy which I suspect is Dopamine-related. I don't know why but it became permanent. The question is, can I take some supplements and herbs to re-boost my Dopamine if its been damaged by an SSRI? Please help.
>
> How long time since you went off Prozac?Over 6 years.
Posted by Wanderer123 on September 7, 2009, at 10:40:48
In reply to Re: Is there a way to naturally increase Dopamine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 7, 2009, at 9:57:54
> > So Prozac has caused me apathy which I suspect is Dopamine-related. I don't know why but it became permanent. The question is, can I take some supplements and herbs to re-boost my Dopamine if its been damaged by an SSRI? Please help.
>
> How long time since you went off Prozac?Over 6 years.
Posted by Brainbeard on September 7, 2009, at 10:48:31
In reply to Re: Is there a way to naturally increase Dopamine?, posted by Wanderer123 on September 7, 2009, at 10:40:48
One solution is: get back on Prozac. But: low dose this time, say 2.5-5mg. That way, Prozac's 5HT2C-antagonism will boost your dopamine and noradrenaline without touching your serotonin too much. You will be stimulated without being apathized.
Posted by metafunj on September 12, 2009, at 10:47:26
In reply to Re: Is there a way to naturally increase Dopamine?, posted by Brainbeard on September 7, 2009, at 10:48:31
Hey Wanderer123,
I just wanted to say I'm in the same boat as you. I have been off Prozac for 6 years and have low dopaminergic symptoms ie, anhedonia, poor concentration, poor memory, low motivation, feeling tired during the day.
I am also looking at ways to boost dopamine. I've tried natural methods(L-tyrosine, mucana puriens, NADH, ginseng) but none of them worked very well. Even exercise is starting to fail me.
I may try the low dose prozac as brainbeard suggested. I just recently took Lexapro though and even at a low dose of 5mgs it made me kinda spacey and slightly out of it. Hopefully low dose prozac wouldn't do this. Maybe I could take the 5 mg half tablet every other day?
If that doesn't work I'll try a stimulant or both, if I can get a script.
Posted by metafunj on September 12, 2009, at 11:23:47
In reply to Do SSRI's cause dopamine depletion, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on March 3, 2009, at 10:46:37
Just thought I'd throw this in here. I posted it in the tread about dopamine depletion on SSRIs being a myth. I hope this helps to answer the initial question.
Abstract
Serotonin and dopamine transporter (SERT, DAT) availabilities have prospectively been investigated using [123I]β-CIT and single photon emission computed tomography in subjects with obsessive–compulsive disorder under treatment with the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor citalopram. SERT availability decreased by a mean 36.5%, whereas DAT availability increased by about 40%. The data point at a citalopram induced modulation of both serotonergic and dopaminergic activity and support the notion of functional interactions of monoaminergic systems in the human brain.
Keywords: Serotonin and dopamine transporters; Single photon emission computed tomography; β-CIT; Serotonin reuptake inhibitor; Obsessive–compulsive disorder
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Neurotransmitters | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.