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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 14:48:32
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
Hiya Susan-
I used to think that it was an automatic 'yes', but it isn't that simple. What if someone cut a major artery, couldn't get help, and realized they didn't want to die? I can't say God wouldn't forgive them that, who am I to say?
If they outright asked God's forgiveness, no, because God forgives you anything if you ask...
Probably not a lot of help-
Kiddo
Posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 14:59:42
In reply to Re: A question » Susan G, posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 14:48:32
Thanks for responding Kiddo. What if it is done intentionally, not accidentally, but the person asks for forgiveness?
Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 15:16:13
In reply to Re: A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 14:59:42
> Thanks for responding Kiddo. What if it is done intentionally, not accidentally, but the person asks for forgiveness?
Welcome dear-If the person asks for forgiveness before they die, yes they will be forgiven....
Kiddo
Posted by Angel Girl on July 22, 2002, at 15:20:32
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
Sue
I have pondered this same question many times over the years. In fact, about 3 years ago when I was determined to kill myself, it 'just happened' to be at the same time that my fave aunt was in the hospital in a coma due to kidney problems. My suididal thoughts had nothing to do with my aunt. When she came out of her coma, she relayed on to the family a couple of near death experiences. They were NOT pretty. When I heard what she had to say, I started doing some reading on the subject and I came to the conclusion that anybody who comitted suicide was damned to hell so therefore, obviously you can see I didn't do it. I also strongly believe that God allowed my aunt to experience what she did in order to save me because had it not been for her near death experiences, I would not be here today.
Now years later, even knowing of what she told me, it seems to have absolutely no impact on me when I get suicidal. I however, now have different feelings. I think some people do go to heaven, some not. I would think, by my own beliefs that if you ask for forgiveness for your sins, then you will have eternal life. I think God forgives anybody for anything if we ask for it, regardless of what our sins are. I firmly believe that even murderers and rapists can have eternal life if they turn towards God, repent and ask forgiveness of their sins, if even done on their deathbed.
Just my opinion.
Angel
Posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 15:21:40
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
There are a few answers to that question. It depends on who you ask.
The Catholic Church has always said that someone who committed suicide was automatically condemned to hell.
The Baptist church that I was raised in said that once you were "saved", you were always saved, and you would not go to hell no matter what you did.
Some Eastern religions say that if you kill yourself, you will be reincarnated as a lower being, or suffer in a future life.
And some religions, like those of Jim Jones or Heavens Gate, teach that god will actually reward you for committing suicide.
The modern viewpoint of Scientific Humanism does not believe that there is a god to condemn you or a hell to go to. Your life belongs to you, and it is up to you to live it in the best way you know how. If you decide to end it, that is your choice.
If there really is a god, I doubt he would punish someone who is in devastating pain for ending their life to end their pain. But then again, if there really is an all powerful god, and he saw one of his beloved creatures in devastating pain, you’d think he could at least help out or something…
> I suppose most everyone is off reading Admin but I have a question to ask. I don't mean to get anyone stirred up by my asking it, I just am not very knowledgable about religion and I know many of you will have an answer to this. I'm wondering what you believe God really feels about those who commit suicide. Do you really think God condemns a person to hell for taking his/her life? I know it's believed to be a sin to do so, but tt's hard for me to imagine that God would do that to someone who is clearly is such devastating pain. Your thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Sue "I Quit Going to Sunday School a Long Time Ago" G.
Posted by krazy kat on July 22, 2002, at 15:28:43
In reply to Re: A question - a few answers » Susan G, posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 15:21:40
Posted by Lini on July 22, 2002, at 15:38:04
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
Paraphrased from another website in regard to the Baha'i Faith's view of suicide:Our religion forbids suicide, but there have been many Bahá'í martyrs who knowingly went to their deaths.
One reason not to commit suicide is because of the harm it can do to the spirit. Shoghi Effendi says that
'Suicide is forbidden in the Cause. God Who is the Author of all life can alone take it away, and dispose of it in the way He deems best. Whoever commits suicide endangers his soul, and will suffer spiritually as a result in the other Worlds Beyond.... '
Lights of Guidance, No. 677, p. 204_______________________________________________
Bahai's don't believe in "hell fire" so to speak, but rather that our lives simply are a preparation for the next "world" and in committing suicide, you do not allow your spiritual side to develop to the extent that your life would have permitted.
-L
Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 15:51:03
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
You and I have chatted briefly... I wish I could give you my concrete belief on the matter. I believe much like Kiddo... And Dinah said things best when she once said something like - who's to say what God can/cannot or will/won't do. I know my Grandmother didn't go to church every week, and I don't believe she had that loving connection/relationship with God, but in her final moments (in anyone's final moments) who's to say she didn't ask God's forgiveness, and accept Christ? How big is your God? (Not just asking SusanG.) Do you ask him for help with the little stuff, or just cry out when you've gotten to the end of the rope? Okay, so I've said I wasn't the preachy type, and then there I go! hahaha See whatcha get for asking questions on Monday, right after a church day :)
Have a great week everyone - God Bless us all.
Posted by Mr Beev on July 22, 2002, at 16:01:28
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
It is difficult to add anything substansive to fachad's excellent reply, so I shall merely point out an interesting essay on the subject, with anonymous rebuttal, by the great philosopher David Hume:
http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/suicide.htm
Best Regards,
Mr Beev
Posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46
In reply to I sure wish I could answer that... » Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 15:51:03
Sandra
your anecdote about your grandmother gives rise to the question of what happens to those who do not ask for forgiveness before they die. Any thoughts?
Mair
Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 16:55:30
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... » SandraDee, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46
Are you talking about those that believe in God, Christ and the holy Spirit that don't ask for forgiveness before they die, or those that don't believe in all that and don't have a chance or just plain don't ask forgiveness before they die?
Either way, I'm pretty sure I can't post that on this board, or any PSB type board... :( I still go by the "who knows what God can do?" theory, because I can't put *my* God into a box like that, but going by my Bible... apparently I can't post what I believe might happen.
Perhaps Kiddo can elaborate better, because I'm just an itty-bitty Christian :) (a newbie - so to speak) Sorry, I know that wasn't really an "answer" but at least I tried, and I responded! :) hahahaha
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 16:58:12
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... » SandraDee, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46
Mair, Are you still asking about suicide or about not accepting Jesus as savior.
Posted by judy1 on July 22, 2002, at 17:23:14
In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23
I can only believe in a forgiving God, because if that was not true I would not have any faith. Strictly my opinion- take care, judy
Posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06
In reply to Wellllllllll..... » mair, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 16:55:30
Sandra Dee, I'm asking for your opinion, your belief about this. Surely that's ok to post, isn't it? I don't want this to turn into an Admin-bound debate but since I am specifically asking what people believe about this particular question, I would hope you would feel free to tell me. If not, just tell me in PB Open since I truly am interested in your thoughts. Thanks.
Sue
Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 18:09:29
In reply to Re: Wellllllllll....., posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06
Thanks for saying that Susan....I don't see any reason why it should have to go to admin :-)
Kiddo
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 20:06:26
In reply to Re: Wellllllllll..... » Susan G, posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 18:09:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seven come eleven
Yeah, yeah, yeahZZTop
God wouldn't send you to hell for suicide. He looks at it more as a lateral move. *joke?
Posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 21:37:55
In reply to Have you heard about heaven, posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 20:06:26
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...-John Lennon
> Yeah, yeah, yeah
> Seven come eleven
> Yeah, yeah, yeah
>
> ZZTop
>
> God wouldn't send you to hell for suicide. He looks at it more as a lateral move. *joke?
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 21:57:43
In reply to Re: Have you heard about heaven - Imagine..., posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 21:37:55
Posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 22:25:22
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... » mair, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 16:58:12
> "Are you still asking about suicide or about not accepting Jesus as savior."
Dinah - would there be a difference to your answer one way or the other?Mair
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 23:17:34
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... » Dinah, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 22:25:22
Yes, Mair. It would of course. I have widely researched current theological thought on suicide (for the obvious reasons). I have no knowledge of the other.
Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 23:32:35
In reply to Re: Wellllllllll....., posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06
I would really love to give you my opinion/belief on the matter, but would have to do so in chat, I suppose. It's been made fairly clear that the "road" that us Christians choose is not that of which to be talked about on this Faith Board. I'd be more than happy to tell you how I feel (in more depth). I've already posted "what I believe" without much detail on another thread (it might have been archived?). Perhaps we can set a date for chat?
Posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:30:35
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... » mair, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 23:17:34
Dinah, since you have done that research would you give me a quick overview of thought on this? I'm still counting votes here.
You're the best! :)
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2002, at 9:34:32
In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:30:35
I'd rather answer that off board, Susan. You can message me and I'll explain why.
Posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57
In reply to I would love to... » Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 23:32:35
SandraDee, I would love to talk with you about this in chat. I pop in there most evenings around 7:00 PM our time (Pacific). My schedule is erratic lately so I'm hesitant to set a date and then not show up. How about if we just look for each other?
I don't really want to get into all this but I don't see why it isn't possible to just say here, "The _________ faith believes that if you take your own life you will rot in hell" or whatever. Would that work? If not, no worries, I'll just see you in chat.
Sue
Posted by SandraDee on July 23, 2002, at 10:21:53
In reply to Re: I would love to..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57
apparently says we can't say stuff like that. At least that's the impression I've gotten. I do not want to risk getting blocked by saying stuff like what you quoted. I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to abide by some of these not-so-clear rules. I don't know if you've been following admin... but God help us all.. whew.
I'll look for you in chat... (we might be going swimming tonight, so probably not tonight :( sorry).
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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