Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 203

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SandaraDee's important question

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 21:55:51

In reply to just clarifying.... Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on June 28, 2002, at 17:12:53

SandraDee,
Now one of the people in the called are those that are suffering. I was told in the City of Peace ,"that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. You shall be delivered from your slavery to your corruption into the glorious libety of the Children of God."
You see, first, the Called all know that they are suffering as being in human form. We get older and sick and degrade into death. We are corrupt. But in The City of Peace, there will be no death. Actually, we will be all new creatures, without memory of our former lives. That will be erased.
I will tell you more , next.
Lou

 

Re: SandaraDee's important question:The World

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 22:18:21

In reply to SandaraDee's important question, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 21:55:51

SandraDee,
The world is a place that The Called have to overcome. The Called are not of the world, although they are in the world. The Called have their hearts toward God and His rightiousness. The Called want to store up treasures in heaven. The world people have their minds fixed on material things of the world. They want power and prestige and welth.
When I was in The City of Peace, the Rider said to me, "In the world you will have tibulation. In me you will have peace. Be of good cheer. I have overcome the world."
I will tell more, next.
Lou

 

Re: SandaraDee's important question:

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 22:43:18

In reply to Re: SandaraDee's important question:The World, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 22:18:21

SandraDee,
I was also shown The Wrath of God. The people that made a choice to be the enemys of God recieved the Wrath of God. You see, hell was prepared for The Devil and his followers. It was not prepared for man. Man was created to live forever. Death came into the world after the creation. I asked about this in the City of Peace and was told,"The Lord is not slack concering His promis, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
I will tell you more, next.
Lou

 

4 paragraphs and my simple question not answered. Lou Pilder

Posted by SandraDee on June 28, 2002, at 23:44:36

In reply to Re: SandaraDee's important question:, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 22:43:18

I just asked a simple question to try to understand you a little better... but I can see that it is too hard. I will bow out of this conversation because you will not answer my simple question. It reminds me of a time I had the "Church of Latter Day Saints" people in and asked them ONE simple question... "Do you beleive in the trinity?" And they could not and would not answer me. The young missionaries kept dancing around my question telling me they had to teach me all this other stuff before they could answer my ONE SIMPLE QUESTION. So thank you anyway... I guess I learned one thing, that I sort of already knew (FOR ME): Stay out of discussions such as this. Anyone else interested in getting tangled up in a LENGTHY discussion/debate with you is free to do so. I don't have that kind of time.

 

The answer will be seen SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2002, at 7:32:04

In reply to 4 paragraphs and my simple question not answered. Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on June 28, 2002, at 23:44:36

SandraDee,
Dr. Bob cited a quote from a U.S. Supreme Court Justice. He said, "I know it when I see it." Now in order to see something, you must be in the visible range to see it. You must be close enough to see it. In answering your question, I must bring you close enough to it so that you can see it.
When the Anointed One started to answer all the peoples questions, the first thing that He said was, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." Now those people that He was talking to were very knowlegable in those terms but still needed to be drawn closer to the Truth in order to "see" what He was saying. I can imagine that there were people there who wondered what he meant by "repent," or "the Kingdom of Heaven." I suppose that there were people that thought that the man was insane. I suppose that there were people that went to the market and ignored Him. I suppose that there were people that challenged Him and tried to entrap Him or frame Him. I suppose that there were people that wanted to kill him. And there were people that wanted a straight answer that instant. But He could not answer immmediatly because they were not close enough yet to understand.. What your question entails for me to answer is to tell the last two Gates. And I am going to do that. But first, I must bring you close enough so you can "see it."
Now I could skip up to the last Gate now if you want me to, but if you came to a play in the last scene, how would you know what it meant without seeing all the other acts amd scenes?.
But I will tell you more so that you can come closer to see the answer.
Lou

 

Re: The answer will be seen SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2002, at 8:01:04

In reply to The answer will be seen SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2002, at 7:32:04

SandraDee,
In that time-Gate I saw The Son of Man in His glory with all the angels around Him while He was sitting in His throne. And before Him were all the people and they were separated, like sheep from goats. And He said to the sheep, "Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungered, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty and you gave me drink. I was a stranger and you took me in.
Naked and you clothed me: I was in prison and you came into me. Then I saw some say," when did we see you hungry and feed you? or thirsty and give you drink? or saw you a stranger and took you in, or naked and clothed you?"
"Or when did we see you sick or in prison, and came onto you?"
He answered us and said, "Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of my brethren,you have done it to me."
I will tell you next, what He said to the other people.
Lou

 

breezing through Lou Pilder

Posted by SandraDee on June 29, 2002, at 10:22:32

In reply to Re: The answer will be seen SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2002, at 8:01:04

Since you are not answering my question I sort of just barely skimmed your post. I do not want to hear about the Road. I do not wish to hear of the City of Peace at this time (which is why I skimmed over it), I just asked a simple question on what you beleive. I know what *I* beleive already as I posted before on a different thread. Thanks anyhow, and like I said before it was interesting TRYING to have a conversation with you.

 

Re: breezing through Lou Pilder SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2002, at 17:07:33

In reply to breezing through Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on June 29, 2002, at 10:22:32

SandraDee,
I will respect that you do not want to hear about the City of Peace or the Road. I could answer your question, though, by not mentioning the experiance that I had.
You said that you are interested in trying to have a conversation with me. If that means that you will have a conversation with me ,with the restriction that I do not mention my experiance, then I would be delighted.
Best Wishes,
Lou

 

Re: what do you think about god? Bookgurl99 krazy kat

Posted by oona on June 30, 2002, at 14:41:21

In reply to Re: what do you think about god? Bookgurl99, posted by krazy kat on June 24, 2002, at 15:59:44

Hey kk,

Just reading old posts and will not post on the gender of god at this time (see my post on god and trees) but was interested in the vision of the sunset in NM.

I am also here in NM, and once saw a giant cross in the sky but it was made by the jets that make those contrails in the sky. Thought they may be playing a joke on us about the coming of Jessus or something....

anyway, we are closer to god here in NM being over a mile or more high (some of us are higher than others, depending on our mindset)

oona

 

Re: Lou and bookgurl Bookgurl99 Lou Pilder

Posted by bookgurl99 on June 30, 2002, at 22:40:34

In reply to Lou and bookgurl Bookgurl99, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2002, at 17:08:45

> bookgurl,
> In your post, you mentioned that you had suicide feelings and that there was a time in your youth that you wanted to "refind"
> When someone posts on this board that they have suicide feelings, I take them seriously. And I know about suicide feelings, for I have experianced them also.
> I responded to your plea to "refind it". Your dream that you described was real. I have known others that have had the same dream. But the part that is the most important is the gold object on the wall. It is a sign to you. And all I wanted to do is be of help to you to explain the sign of the Star. You see, the Star was placed there. God places Stars to guide people to something. When the Anointed One was born, God created a special Star to guide those from the East that were seeking The King that would redeem mankind from death and hell. The star was placed over where they could find Him.
> God is not a respector of persons. If He placed a star to guide those 2000 years ago, He will place a star for us to guide us to The King also.
> But when the men from the East found the star and the King, they gave Him gifts. One of those gifts was gold. Your star was gold. Gold for the King . And then the men from the East were warned in a DREAM to depart back to their own country. God connects His star with a Dream. You had a dream. Dreams can come true if they happen to you.
> Lou


Lou,

I really appreciate your positive interpretation of this dream. I am amazed by your ability to make connections between divergent realities. Thanks for the note --

bookgurl99

 

Re: please be supportive SandraDee

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 1, 2002, at 10:28:06

In reply to breezing through Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on June 29, 2002, at 10:22:32

> I do not want to hear about the Road.

I don't think it's so supportive to tell someone you don't want to hear what they have to say. See:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/250.html

Thanks,

Bob

 

i totally disagree beardedlady

Posted by krazy kat on July 1, 2002, at 11:44:38

In reply to That's not very nice. krazy kat , posted by beardedlady on June 27, 2002, at 16:43:01

i actually didn't even criticize lou's posts. i just wanted book girl to know that there is a history to these threads.

i still stand by my "involvement" in the development of the faith board.

i guess with this post one of my concerns was that no one else was joining in on the lou/bookgirl thread and so it wasn't fair-sided.

you just told me "that wasn't very nice" - should I take that personally? :)

- kk

 

Re: what do you think about god? oona

Posted by krazy kat on July 1, 2002, at 11:46:49

In reply to Re: what do you think about god? Bookgurl99 krazy kat , posted by oona on June 30, 2002, at 14:41:21

NM is so very strongly in my heart. I envy you. :)

 

censorship of lou should have been history

Posted by krazy kat on July 1, 2002, at 11:50:06

In reply to Re: Lou and bookgurl Bookgurl99 Lou Pilder, posted by bookgurl99 on June 30, 2002, at 22:40:34

i should not have used the term censorship. but i was bringing up a valid point re: the history of these threads and the fact the BookGirl would not be aware of them.

I am so tired of this site again... ;) I'll be heading off for a break. Amazing how it drains one.

 

Welcome back Krazy Kat krazy kat

Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2002, at 12:01:39

In reply to censorship of lou should have been history, posted by krazy kat on July 1, 2002, at 11:50:06

Krazy Kat,
Welcome back . I have missed you. You see, you were one of the first people 6 months ago that responded to one of my posts. I believe that one day, and it will be a great day, that all of us will sit down at the table of peace and that all of our differences will be buried and we will remember them no more.
Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon.
Lou

 

I thought I was being supportive. Dr. Bob

Posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 13:38:00

In reply to Re: please be supportive SandraDee, posted by Dr. Bob on July 1, 2002, at 10:28:06

I asked him a simple question, and several times he responded, without answering my question. I just asked him to answer it without reference to the Road, or City of Peace, and he can't do it, so I backed out of the thread altogether. Like you said, if ya don't like it, don't read it (or something to those words...) and also, if you have a problem with it, just don't respond - which I haven't responded to him, because he refuses to answer my question, still. No biggie. Life goes on, I'm not crushed over it, and I never called him any names or anything. I don't care if he posts about the Road, I just wanted him to answer my question without reference to the Road or City of Peace. :)

 

Re: I thought I was being supportive. SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2002, at 15:52:17

In reply to I thought I was being supportive. Dr. Bob, posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 13:38:00

SandraDee,
My apologies for not answering your question immediatly and without sharing with you what I experianced on the Road. I would like to just give you an answer immediatly like you requested without my experiance , but the answer comes from my experiance and I can not separate one from the other.
Also, the answer to your question is very lengthly. You see, I know you understand that there will be a ressurection of the dead, for you talked about being "saved". You see, it was revealed to me that there would be more than one resurrection from the dead. Those that did good, and those that did evil. But is was also revealed to me that there are people that were niether good nor evil. A newborn baby that died at birth would not have done good or evil. A person that has their mind impaired due to illness, such as Alzhiemer's or extreme mental illness would not be able to do good or evil while they were impaired. I know a man that was in the VietNam war and can not live a normal life for he sees the horrors of war before him all day. His condition is beyond post-tramatic syndrome. He can not do good or evil while he is in that state of mind. So what I am saying is that it is not a simple answer to give. But there is an answer and when , or if, you decide that you want to discuss this with me, I would be glad to do so with you. I do understand your frustration with me, and I do not hold it against you for being upset with me. but your original question about the people that do not go on the Road can be answered this way:
I have been telling you of an extreme experiance that is on the complete end of a spectrum of experiances. But there are experiances on the other end of the spectrum , or in between. So someone does not have to have the same type of experiance that I had.
Best regards,
Lou

 

I do not understand you... Lou Pilder

Posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 18:28:54

In reply to Re: I thought I was being supportive. SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2002, at 15:52:17

and Yes I am greatly frustrated with you. If someone asked me what I believe in... or as Tabitha asked me - what do *I* believe the Trinity is, I can answer that without telling her of every religious event I've been to. I just tell her how I feel in my heart. I'm not sure if you hide behind "the Road" or what the deal is. I cannot figure you out, and frankly I'm exhausted trying. I can see why so many people take "breaks" from these boards. (Not saying they take them because of YOU particularly, just I can see why they do take them.) I asked you who you think are called. I believe that we are all called by God. He wants us all 'home' with Him. However some do not wish to know Him. Those are my beliefs. I believe there is a Heaven and a hell. I don't have to tell of all my experiences (notice it's experience <-- with an E) to tell you what I believe. (My word that I always mispell -by the way- is believe, believe it or not! haha) So, I hope you get the picture of where I am coming from because I have no clue how to read you at all.

 

Re: I do not understand you... SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2002, at 18:44:53

In reply to I do not understand you... Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 18:28:54

SandraDee,
You appear to be looking for simple answers from me to what I consider very complex questions. Even when you say that you believe in heaven and hell, you do not define what heaven or hell are. For instance, is hell a place of eternal torment? Is hell a lake of fire? Is hell the grave?
Perhaps you can tell me what hell means to you?
best regards,
Lou

 

Having a hard time... Lou Pilder

Posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 23:42:26

In reply to Re: I do not understand you... SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2002, at 18:44:53

Having a hard time answering all your questions because you are not making any attempt to answering mine. It is not as complicated as you are making it out to be. In a paragraph: Yes *I* believe hell is awful. No, *I* do not believe it is in the grave, *I* believe it goes beyond the grave; for that is just the body, not our spirit.

 

Re: Having a hard time... SandraDee

Posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2002, at 5:41:24

In reply to Having a hard time... Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on July 1, 2002, at 23:42:26

SandraDee,
Ask me the question that you want me to answer and I will answer it all on one post.
Lou

 

One last try... Lou Pilder

Posted by SandraDee on July 2, 2002, at 9:55:18

In reply to Re: Having a hard time... SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2002, at 5:41:24

Here ya go: These are the 3 (THREE) links I 'spoke' with you about. The question started in the first one, which was not really answered, then I had a new simple question in the 2nd one, which wasn't answered... now I have more questions but won't ask them.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/241.html

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/253.html

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/260.html

 

answering questions about faith SandraDee

Posted by krazy kat on July 2, 2002, at 13:04:55

In reply to One last try... Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on July 2, 2002, at 9:55:18

Sandra:

I had an odd thought about this - I've been following the thread but am keeping myself out of it (mostly) because when I got involved in the Gates threads previously, the same thing was frustrating to me - the answers were evaded and it went on forever, as it has again.

So, I thought, what if I answer Sandra's questions from my 'belief system' (or lack of). Maybe that will help Lou see how a straight answer can help? Your last link is such a good example:

"The young missionaries kept dancing around my question telling me they had to teach me all this other stuff before they could answer my ONE SIMPLE QUESTION"

That's absolutely what set off my gut instinct that shouted "cult" re: these threads previously and boy did I get into trouble for using that word. I'm not calling Lou's theory or whatever it is a "cult" - that's just how it felt to me because he was keeping it so mysterious.

Keep in mind I'm really agnostic right now, but I'll approach it from my Christian "history":

Sandra's first question:

"So you are saying that there is no hell or death?"

My answer would be:

It makes sense that there would be punishment for those who have not met God's criteria for a rewarding afterlife. This could be called "hell" based on the Bible. There is "death" because death refers to the demise of the body. These are both contingent on one believing in a separate spirit and a separate body.

Sandra's second question:

"We are all called, but some tend to not want to go that route (or Road) and therefore are not 'saved'?"

My answer:

"saved" is the key word here. to me, that is "meeting God's criteria". to my parents it is accepting Christ as one's savior (being "born-again"). to my husband it is believing in Christ, but Also belonging to the Catholic church.

Sandra's third question:

"Do you beleive in the trinity?"

My answer:

No. But, a Christian would. That's a simple question - the trinity is unique to Christianity (please correct me if I'm wrong, though) and it's God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

So, imho, Sandra, your questions have been forthright and clear. The things Lou would need to define are:

If there is a separate body and spirit?

How one becomes "saved" or gets to the seventh gate, if so.

What happens to those who are not "saved" or allowed to enter this gate? Do they go to "hell"?

Does he believe in God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit?

What do you think? I probably won't answer much, because if I get pulled into this it'll be a web again, but please do offer your opinions.

- kk

 

Re: just clarifying.... SandraDee

Posted by lou pilder on July 2, 2002, at 13:29:22

In reply to just clarifying.... Lou Pilder, posted by SandraDee on June 28, 2002, at 17:12:53

SandrDee,
I presume that your question is: Are the people that do not go on the 7 Gates on the Road to the Crown of Life "saved" or not?
My answer is this:
Case #1:Person travles the Road and recieves the Crown of Life. The Crown of Life is ETERNAL LIFE.
CASE#2: Person does not travle the Road and knew good from evil. That person is judged by their lifetime works. If their lifetime works are works of rightiousness that EXCEEDS the rightiousness of the most rightious Rabbis that ever lived, then they will recieve Eternal Life. This requirers keeping the commandments from their youth without ever breaking one of them. These people do not need a Redeemer for they never broke God's laws.
Case#3: People that did not have the chance to walk the Road because they found out about the Road on their deathbed and could not live an overcomming life. These people are of two types:
TypeA: Never believed in God and just wanted to extend their lives anyway that they could so that they could just have another breath. They can not accept death. These people are not "saved"
Type B: Believed that they have failed in their life to God and are extreamly sorry and know that they deserve hell. They have one last request before their last breath and that is that God will have mercy on them and actually pay their penalty for them . They want to be remembered in God's Kingdom and admit that they are guilty and do not deserve Eternal Life. God will reveal His plan of salvation to them and these people will be in Paradise.
Case#4: There is no "second chance" after death. But there are people that never had a "first" chance. These are the people that can not know what good or evil are. These are the people that died before an accountable age of decernment. These are people that never had an experiance to bring them to the knowkege of God's plan. They do not recieve Eternal Life automatically, but are treated in a manner that I do not have the time or space to tell you about. But God is a God of justice and those people are treated with the same justice as the people that had a "first " chance.
Case#5: The Chosen. These are the chosen by God. There are people that are chosen to be God's people. But these people have a higher standard in their lives to perform. They carry a greater obligation and actually enter into a covenant relationship with God. They acually become sons of God and servants of God. These people have a special mission and give up living a life that the rest of the people live. They sacrifice all for the Kingdom of God. Many of these regret that they were chosen and some commit suicide and many are murdered . God reveals His plan of salvation to them and they do recieve Eternal Life unless they rebel against God. The Devil, Satan, actually was in God's Kingdom and rebelled against Him. He will be cast into the Lake of Fire along with those that follow him for they never repented of their rebellion against God.
Case #6: People in rebellion to God and turn 180 degrees from rebellion against God to seeking God with all their heart. These people find God and God reveals His plan of salvation to them. Most of them go through a purging process that is tourterous. But people volunteer for this persecution for rightiousness sake. They accept the world's scorn. They are outcasts for the Kingdom of God and do not care what the world thinks of them. They seek to store up treasures in heaven and reject the world' ways. They carry with them their own acceptance of being executed for serving God. They recieve Eternal Life as long as they do not return to their evil ways and forsake God.
Case #6: These people know that they have really caused God grief by the way that they lived their life and are extreamly sorry and know that they deserve hell. They have no idea about the Road or anything else about God. But they cry out,"Lord have mercy upom me, a SINNER. Forgive me and I will forgive all others."
These people are taken to the Road and recieve the Crown of Life.
Lou


 

so, the ten commandments are the rules lou pilder

Posted by krazy kat on July 2, 2002, at 14:35:53

In reply to Re: just clarifying.... SandraDee, posted by lou pilder on July 2, 2002, at 13:29:22

to follow:

"This requirers keeping the commandments from their youth without ever breaking one of them. These people do not need a Redeemer for they never broke God's laws."

The only question left then, for Lou, is "Is Christ the Redeemer"?

Hmmm, and just out of curiosity, I would ask "Are the 'chosen people' the Jewish people, as it states in the old testament?

Sandra, please take over.... :)


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