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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 11:14:21
I have heard that hypericin can cause cataracts and that the actual antidepressant compound is hyperforin.
I have had very positive results with St Johns Wort during my highschool degree. I was very functioning, calmer and more concentrated. Also, i had euthymic mood. No mania, no depression. Just functioning.
I have been staying away from St Johns Wort due to the fact that in can cause cataracts.
However, pure hyperforin does not cause this.
I have not found any supplements that are hypericin free but i could order pure hyperforin as a pure chemical.
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 12:35:25
In reply to Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 11:14:21
ummm...is it wise to order a potent, isolated compound and take it on your own? I mean, you're doing the research. I just find it sort of frightening, that's all. (Then again, pharmaceuticals aren't exactly pleasant all the time, and there are safety issues there, too).
I don't know much about St.John's Wort. There's a patented extract...Perika or something...that was used in some of the studies that established an AD effect. Maybe that would be a good choice?
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 12:52:32
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 12:35:25
anything that contains hypericin is a bad choice. It can make the eye foggy permanently.
I contacted a company that makes moisturizing creams. They claim to have a SJW extract with hyperforin and no hypericin.
Maybe they can sell it.is it wise to do nothing??
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 14:23:30
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 12:52:32
There are other "alternative" ways to treat low mood. Its your body, of course, I just find this plan of action...ummm...questionable. Just my opinion.
Ever tried amino acids? 5htp? I'm not any kind of expert, but I think you could spend your time and $$$$ on something else that might give you the results you need.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 14:32:42
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 14:23:30
I cant think of anything to be honest. Whats so bad about this course of action?
SJW is the ONLY thing that had a real positive impact devoid of side effects!!
I could also ingest the moisturizer, lol.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 14:56:44
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 14:32:42
my father says i shall contact SJW brands if they can make a hypericin free extract.
Posted by SLS on October 14, 2015, at 15:56:04
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 14:32:42
Have you investigated the interactions between SJW and the other drugs you are taking? Whole SJW induces the CYP3A4 enzyme, but I don't know which of its constituents are responsible for this. Maybe the extract you are thinking of taking doesn't do this.
Enzyme inducers tend to reduce the blood levels of the drugs they interact with. Although Effexor is metabolized by CYP3A4, this is a minor route. I don't think there would be a great decrease in Effexor blood levels when combined with SWJ. I haven't investigated the other drugs you are taking.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:01:32
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts?? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on October 14, 2015, at 15:56:04
Hi Scott,
cool that you chimed in.
Actually the only things i plan to continue taking is: Effexor, Lithium orotate, Cannabidiol (800-1000mg) and Hyperforin.
What do you think about my ideas with pure hyperforin? Id mix it with lactose or what not. 15mg or something like that. Will have to watch blood levels though. I hope there is any data about that.
When i make the switches, i will need my pdoc to control blood levels for sure. Cannabidiol is a major Cytochrome P450 inhibitor.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:12:47
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:01:32
Hyperforin seems to be unstable chemically.
Most of my endeavors are futile.
Cannabidiol seems like a winner though because it can get rid of 3 pharmaceuticals with severe side effects: Seroquel, Zyprexa and Metformin.
Id probably not need the Metformin anymore because i wouldnt have the AP weight gain.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:13:30
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:12:47
If it works which i hope.
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 16:44:48
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 16:13:30
how much cannabadiol (sp?) do you need to control your problems? I'm excited for you. Did a doc Rx this, or is this something you're pursuing on your own?
I hope it works for you. Dropping AP/AAP drugs is always a good idea, if its possible.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 17:09:27
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2015, at 16:44:48
> how much cannabadiol (sp?) do you need to control your problems? I'm excited for you. Did a doc Rx this, or is this something you're pursuing on your own?
>
> I hope it works for you. Dropping AP/AAP drugs is always a good idea, if its possible.I have an appointment with a doctor that has experience in prescribing cbd that said hed be happy to treat me (with cannabidiol).
April 2016 though. He is busy.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 4:37:34
In reply to Re: Hypericin free St Johns Wort=no cataracts??, posted by Lamdage22 on October 14, 2015, at 17:09:27
I want to contact them one by one to see if anyone is interested in making a hypericin free extract.
Here is another thread on the topic of no hypericin St johns wort extract. I have postet there as well. https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264811
It looks like people are working on making a Hyperforin like compound that is more chemically stable. They are working on a prescription hyperforin like substance. Results are expected in 2-3 years. I have read that on a german website. Looks like the research is german. People are working on helping us, but it seems they miss something from time to time. An extact CONTAINING hyperforin might be chemically stable enough.
Some search words to get people to read this: Hypericin free st johns wort extract. Hypericin Cataracts. St johns wort cataracts. St johns wort photosensitivity. Hypericin photosensitivity.
Any support for the matter is appreciated.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 5:06:45
In reply to Can SB name all the good SJW brands?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 4:37:34
Concerning Cytochrome P450 enzymes?
Cannabidiol seems to lower Cytochrome P450 and SJW raises it. Its kinda complicated.
However, i still think it makes sense to contact those SJW brands and ask them if they want to produce St Johns Wort minus the Hypericin. If it doesnt help me, it will help others. They could take SJW with less worry. So the endeavor seems worthwile.
Thanks
(Please ignore the new thread i made it on accident. Lets discuss the topic here!)
Posted by SLS on October 15, 2015, at 6:38:41
In reply to @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 5:06:45
> Concerning Cytochrome P450 enzymes?
>
> Cannabidiol seems to lower Cytochrome P450 and SJW raises it. Its kinda complicated.
>
> However, i still think it makes sense to contact those SJW brands and ask them if they want to produce St Johns Wort minus the Hypericin. If it doesnt help me, it will help others. They could take SJW with less worry. So the endeavor seems worthwile.
>
> Thanks
>
> (Please ignore the new thread i made it on accident. Lets discuss the topic here!)When looking at the CYP P450 enzymes, one must consider each subtype separately. If CBD and SJW affect different enzymes, then they don't interact. It is not as if they cancel each other out.
Now, if both drugs work on the same enzyme, my guess is that the net effect will depend on the concentration and, perhaps more importantly, the binding affinity, which determines which one wins the competition for the enzyme. I do not know for sure. What if both drugs have equal binding potentials? My guess is that inhibition wins out over induction. In this case, the levels of both drugs should increase.
I'm afraid you will need to do some research into this. Neither of these drugs show up on the chart that I often use:
http://medicine.iupui.edu/clinpharm/ddis/clinical-table/
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 6:49:25
In reply to Re: @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by SLS on October 15, 2015, at 6:38:41
thanks Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 6:51:00
In reply to Re: @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by SLS on October 15, 2015, at 6:38:41
if CBD increases it would be really good because of the cost.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 10:06:35
In reply to Re: @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 6:51:00
Let it be known that i live not entirely because of my free will. I dont take the Medications Seroquel, Zyprexa and Metformin entirely because of my free will.
I find these interventions of my human rights unethical.
I dont think mental illness disables me from making the right decisions for my life.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 16, 2015, at 6:50:08
In reply to Re: @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 6:51:00
YES.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 16, 2015, at 10:21:44
In reply to i found hypericin free extract, posted by Lamdage22 on October 16, 2015, at 6:50:08
Can there be euphoria without the risk of psychosis. If so, let me know how.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2015, at 20:00:10
In reply to @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450, posted by Lamdage22 on October 15, 2015, at 5:06:45
> Concerning Cytochrome P450 enzymes?
>
> Cannabidiol seems to lower Cytochrome P450 and SJW raises it. Its kinda complicated.
>
> However, i still think it makes sense to contact those SJW brands and ask them if they want to produce St Johns Wort minus the Hypericin. If it doesnt help me, it will help others. They could take SJW with less worry. So the endeavor seems worthwile.
>
> Thanks
>
> (Please ignore the new thread i made it on accident. Lets discuss the topic here!)The effects of St. John's wort and cannabidiol on cytochrome P450 enzymes are indeed complicated.
Cannabidiol strongly inhibits two of the most important drug-metabolizing enzymes 3A4 and 2D6, but also inhibits 3A5, 3A7, and 2C19. For active drugs relying on those enzymes for clearance, the net effect would be as from overdose. For pro-drugs relying on those enzymes for activation, the net effect would be underdose. You would need to interpret the anticipated effect for specific drugs. No generalizations are possible.
Hypericin, one of the active ingredients in SJW, increases the activity of 3A4 and 2C9, whereas it has no measurable effect on 1A2 or 2D6.
You just can't generalize. If you have specific drug/herb interactions you'd like to learn about, let me know, and I'll see if I can help you out.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2015, at 20:15:36
In reply to Re: @SLS: CBD+SJW? Cytochrome P450 » Lamdage22, posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2015, at 20:00:10
I just found research published this year that hypericin can induce 1A2 and 2D6 in some hepatic cell lines.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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