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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 15:54:35
Here is some info comparing three CES units I have tried for anxiety/depression issues. I have now tried the Alpha Stim 100, the Fisher Wallace, and the Sota Bio Tuner BT-8.
These are my personal opinions. I have nothing to do with any of these manufacturers.
For past 20 years I have been through many medications. For me, a combo of Xanax and Neurontin has worked the best.
While researching other meds, I stumbled onto this CES technology.
I first tried out the Fisher Wallace unit. From that trial, I could tell CES was for real.
During the trial period of the Fisher Wallace, I also bought an Alpha Stim 100 unit.
The ease of use of the Alpha Stim I liked better than the Fisher Wallace. And, with the Alpha Stim I could feel immediate results. Based on that, I sent the Fisher Wallace back. (Had to pay shipping both ways and a restocking fee).I then wanted to see what the Bio Tuner BT -8 was all about. There are 6 settings on it, and I like the way it is made compared to the other 2 units. Very well designed and not cheap feeling. It does not have the .5hz setting that the Alpha Stim unit has. It is based around the 100-111hz settings. The Alpha Stim has .5, 1.5, and 100.
For me, I really like the .5hz.I think with this CES thing, you really need to test out several devices to see which works for you. Maybe none will help you. I know 100% for sure that it is helping me out.
Let me know if you have any questions. I have jumped into CES with both feet and have learned a lot.
I will sell the brand new Sota Bio Tuner BT-8 that I just got if anyone wants it. Sota will honor the 3-year transferable warranty. For me to ship back to Canada, pay the original shipping, and pay the 20% restock fee will be more than $100. Maybe someone here can use it.
Posted by Tomatheus on July 4, 2013, at 18:17:34
In reply to CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 15:54:35
Jackiehawaii,
First, welcome to Psycho-Babble. I read your post concerning the Alpha Stim 100, Fisher Wallace, and Sota Bio Tuner BT-8 devices with much interest. And I find it encouraging that you seem to have benefited from using the devices for your anxiety and depression.
I'm curious as to which of your symptoms the devices seemed to help the most with. Would you say that the devices helped more with your anxiety or more with your depression? And have you been able to either eliminate or reduce the doses of either of your medications since you've started using the devices?
I have an unusual mix of symptoms that are currently being partially controlled by a combination of Abilify and niacin. I've thought about using some of the devices that you've mentioned here in the past, but some reviews from those who had used the Fisher Wallace device seemed to indicate that it wouldn't likely be helpful for someone with fatigue and hypersomnia. Do you think that any of the devices might be helpful for someone who's had ongoing problems with low energy and sleeping too much?
Thank you for taking the time to post your experiences with the CES devices here. I think that many of those who read this board will likely benefit from reading what you've written. And of course, any responses to any of my questions would be much appreciated.
T.
Posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 18:57:30
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by Tomatheus on July 4, 2013, at 18:17:34
Hi Tomatheus,
> I'm curious as to which of your symptoms the >>devices seemed to help the most with. Would you >>say that the devices helped more with your >>anxiety or more with your depression?
BOTH. I was ready to up dosage on med's. Now I am ready to start reducing med's. I was at a point of total fatigue. Did not want to wake up and do anything. Then when taking med's, it was a combo of wired and tired, not of well being. After 20 years of med's, they were catching up with me. I needed more, but did not want to take more.
_______
>>I've thought about using some of the devices >>>that you've mentioned here in the past, but >>some reviews from those who had used the Fisher >>>Wallace device seemed to indicate that it >>wouldn't likely be helpful for someone with >>>fatigue and hypersomnia.
_______________It is impossible to known until you try which unit will work on you. Maybe none. It can be like Xanax and Klonopin. What works for one does not work for another. I know some that love Fisher Wallace and the Bio Tuner. For me, the brain trigger was the .5HZ setting on the Alpha Stim.
There are several other machines out there. Like the CES Ultra and the Oasis. I do believe in the 3 units I have tried, I have covered most of the bases. But you never know until you try. I think the Oasis has .5HZ too. The CES Ultra is 100HZ which I know does not work on me. But in the battery compartment, they have a switch that is .35HZ, even less than the Alpha's .5HZ. I am curious about Oasis and the CES Ultra too.
Most of these companies have a trial period and it can be costly. But for me....it is better than a pill.
I would not listen to anyone that says one is better than the other. For instance, if you try the Fisher and don't like it, don't think the Alpha or Bio Tuner won't work. They might.
There are also naysayers out there that say you will cause permanent brain damage. No one has been injured by low microamp CES units. They work off max. 9 volt batteries or less for gosh sakes.
Then there are naysayers that say it's a placebo or voodoo. I know 100% for sure it is not on me. I can feel it kick in within seconds. Plus....they use CES on dogs, cats, and horses with good luck.
Hope all this helps some. I have a Bio Tuner to sell if you want to try a used/new one. It does not have the .5HZ that my brain seems to need like the Alpha. I would not have known that unless I tried all 3 first.
I hope you find what you need in this. If I can be of help please ask away. I think I am the first to side by side compare these 3 units. I read other reviews and they seem like they are biases and probably coming from one of the manufacturers.
I can also get more detailed if needed in my comparisons about what each unit does if needed.
For instance, some love the Bio Tuner because it is twice the amps of the Alpha. Some can't feel the Alpha so they think it does nothing. Not true for me. The Fisher unit was a hassle for me. You have to wet some sponges, and stick under a head band with water dripping down your face. That kind of got old. The ear clip way was easier on me like all the other units have. I could feel the Fisher kick in with calm, but not as much for instance as the .5HZ setting on the Alpha. I could keep going on and on with these comparisons, but it all gets subjective when it comes to how the machine looks, its features, and how it is used. The bottom line is....how does it work? The Alpha is the ugliest, most cheap looking, not so great ear clip input jack, etc.. But for me it works. I also bought the older model Alpha 100. They have a new one now that looks better. But I heard it eats more batteries.
I also know that as ugly and cheap looking the old Alpha's are..... they last forever if you take care of them.They all should take a lesson in how the Bio Tuner is built. Well thought out.
Posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 19:01:44
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by Tomatheus on July 4, 2013, at 18:17:34
T.....
I meant to comment on your Niacin use. I did hear that Niacin is a good one to use with these CES machines. Just last week I went and got some. BUT...i got the no flush kind. I was supposed to get the regular flush version.-- J --
Posted by Tomatheus on July 4, 2013, at 20:09:22
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 18:57:30
Hello again Jackiehawaii,
Thank you for your prompt and thorough reply. I think it's really nice that the CES devices you used helped with both your depression and your anxiety, and I find it particularly encouraging that the devices helped you when you were at a point of total fatigue. What you've written has certainly got me reconsidering trying at least one of these devices to see what effect they might have on me. And I also think that you've done a good job of describing the differences between the various CES devices that you've used. If I come up with any more questions about the devices, I will feel free to ask them.
Regarding niacin, thank you for letting me know that you've heard that niacin is a good supplement to take while also using the CES devices. I will say that I have personally tried the non-flush versions of niacin (niacinamide and inositol hexanicotinate) and that even though both versions helped some initially, I didn't find either to be at all effective for any of my symptoms after a few days. The regular niacin (nicotinic acid) that I take now has at least been helping with my concentration (and my energy, to a lesser extent) for a few weeks now. I don't know the extent to which my response to the niacin might change as time goes by, but for me, the nicotinic acid (flushing) version of niacin seems to have longer-lasting effects than the non-flush forms of the vitamin. Keep in mind, of course, that I'm just relaying my experiences with niacin and that others who've taken the vitamin may have different things to say about it. And also keep in mind that the niacin flush can be extremely uncomfortable -- especially when one first takes niacin -- even though it's said to be harmless. I was considering going to the emergency room the first time I flushed on niacin because the flush was that intense, but because I had read that the flush was harmless, I waited it out, and the flush went away.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I went on for too long about niacin, but I just wanted to thank you again for all of the information that you provided in your posts. I hope you're having a good 4th of July.
T(omatheus).
Posted by Jackie Hawaii on July 4, 2013, at 20:26:59
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner » jackiehawaii, posted by Tomatheus on July 4, 2013, at 20:09:22
Hi T.
The Niiacin with the Ces device idea actually came from a site that I don't think is too good for me. Their ideas with ces are ways to use it to get minimal sleep at night. Not for any anxiety / depression issues. More power to them if they can reduce sleep time by 50%. That is not my thing at all with this.
But trying their niacin idea is not an expensive one.
There are several ways to use ces. I like it because it requires no pill.Happy 4th to you too!
Posted by Hugh on July 10, 2013, at 14:07:59
In reply to CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by jackiehawaii on July 4, 2013, at 15:54:35
There's a new, more sophisticated form of CES that became available recently. It's called Nexalin. Unfortunately, it isn't available for personal use. You have to go to a Nexalin provider to try it. I belong to the Biofeedback group on Yahoo, and some neurofeedback clinicians have started to use Nexalin, and are very pleased with it. It's used for depression, anxiety, insomnia, PTSD, addictions. Here's their site:
Posted by anttommo on July 9, 2014, at 12:01:27
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by Hugh on July 10, 2013, at 14:07:59
I am interested in using some sort of CES device to help with insomnia and constant pain.
The 2 devices that I am tossing up between are the BT8 and the David DELIGHT PRO Light & Sound Machine.
Can anyone help me in making a decision?
The price difference is an issue but I want to buy the machine that is best for me so would stretch if it's for the best.
I have used other SOTA devices and quite like them as a company but see potential for the David DELIGHT PRO Light & Sound Machine to be more versatile and effective than the BT8.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Posted by Hugh on July 24, 2014, at 14:53:58
In reply to Re: CES _Alpha Stim, Fisher Wallace, Sota Bio Tuner, posted by anttommo on July 9, 2014, at 12:01:27
I own a BT7 and I've used a David Paradise XL. Neither one helped my insomnia. But both had a calming effect on me, at least initially. Over time, my brain became habituated to them. What kind of pain are you in?
Read this post about an insomnia remedy I stumbled upon. I've been using it for several months now, and I'm sleeping well most nights, which wasn't the case for many years.
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1065644.html
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