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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Christ_empowered on February 17, 2011, at 8:49:34
I take bunches of supplements. I'm trying to keep the number of meds I'm on to a minimum while getting maximum benefits, and I'm also trying to prevent side effects (especially tardive dyskinesia).
Anyway, I read online that high doses of B6 have been used both to treat and prevent tardive dyskinesia. B6 has also been used, with some success, in treating akathisia caused by the antipsychotics. So, in addition to my B-100 (which contains 100mgs B6), I started taking 3 100mgs caps of B6 daily.
I feel GREAT! A little stimulated, but calm and focused, definitely not apathetic or depressed anymore. The only downside is that if I don't take the capsules with food they make my stomach hurt. Other than that, I love everything about this latest addition to my supplement line up.
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 17, 2011, at 15:41:02
In reply to B6 is amazing!, posted by Christ_empowered on February 17, 2011, at 8:49:34
I'm glad you wrote this thread. Although I can't tolerate as much B6 as what you are using, my depression is so much better with just 200mg of B6 and 66mg of zinc picolinate per day. Before I was using some cheap B6 tablets from the drug store; then I switched to higher quality capsules from Vitamin Shoppe, and now I notice a difference. The only thing is I need to take the 50mg capsules spread apart throughout the day, i.e. 50mg in the morning, 100mg in the late afternoon, and finally 50mg at bedtime. I also did have some stimulation from the high dosage, but it has seemed to go away with the addition of 66mg of zinc picolinate. I read somewhere that you might need extra zinc if you are taking high dose B6. If the stimulation is too much in the evening, I take 500mg of GABA, but I don't think I always need this to feel okay. Whether the overstimulation will again return I can't say for sure, but so far it hasn't. I seemed to get the overstimulation more from using high doses of P5P, so I don't use this supplement anymore. Anyway, if you use enough B6 according to what is tolerable, it can make an impact on the depression along with zinc, B1, B2, selenium, and B12, as well as other supplements. Adjusting the dosage of each vitamin to individual needs is very important. I cannot stress this enough. The difficult part is in discovering optimum dosages. This can take a while, but be patient.
Lao
Posted by linkadge on February 17, 2011, at 20:29:02
In reply to Re: B6 is amazing!, posted by Lao Tzu on February 17, 2011, at 15:41:02
Be careful with prolonged high dose b6. It has been known to cause peripherial nerve damage.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on February 17, 2011, at 21:35:54
In reply to Re: B6 is amazing!, posted by linkadge on February 17, 2011, at 20:29:02
> Be careful with prolonged high dose b6. It has been known to cause peripherial nerve damage.
>
> LinkadgeI think there is some evidence of it contributing to cancer also. Those are high doses you guys are using.
I'm not saying don't use B6, maybe just see if you can lower the doses and still get some benefit. It's likely that the initial response may not last anyway, not at the same intensity. I'd be curious to see if it does.
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 18, 2011, at 23:16:21
In reply to Re: B6 is amazing!, posted by morgan miller on February 17, 2011, at 21:35:54
My experience is that you need to reach a particular dosage tailored to the individual. For some people with pyroluria, the magic dosage is around 250mg per day, but this is just a generalization. It may vary from person to person. If you have pyroluria, for example, antidepressant meds are not going to be as effective unless you also address the deficiencies in zinc and B6, as well as other possible nutrient deficiencies. You bring up a good point about a vitamin's lasting efficacy. I don't know for sure, but it has been my experience that you can become dependent on vitamins once you've been taking them for some time. As far as efficacy long-term, I think the vitamins will indeed be helpful for as long as you use them, but optimum dosages are essential to maintaining a consistency of health, that is if your individual chemistry requires a certain vitamin above normal amounts.
There has been debate on exactly what dosage of B6 is too much to take. I can never get a straight answer about that. I think some people can tolerate more than other people because of inborn errors of metabolism. In other words, they need more B6 than normal people would need. For someone else, for example, they may need more B12 and folic acid. It really depends on individual chemistry. Will there be damage done due to high dosages of a vitamin? It is possible, but probably with certain vitamins there is a higher risk of side effects than with others. For example, my body demands higher B6 levels, but if I use folic acid, my depression seems to get worse the longer I use it. Invariably, I stop using the folic acid and continue with the B6 everyday. So far, I haven't had unbearable side effects from using B6 and zinc. In fact, my body likes these two vitamins, but I also can't say how exactly my body is using these vitamins. Am I doing harm without realizing it? Is it a placebo effect? My psychiatrist thinks it is unnecessary to use extra vitamins if you have a balanced diet. I hesitate somewhat to say he is wrong, but what if there are other problems with one's metabolism that are not remedied with diet and medication alone. Is there more psychology involved than we realize? Perhaps I am bias, but I do think vitamins are healing for people with mental illness. Yes, medication, diet, and exercise are essential as is psychology. I think there are numerous factors affecting one's mental status, all of which need to be addressed. Depression can be complex.
Lao
Posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2011, at 11:26:51
In reply to Re: B6 is amazing!, posted by Lao Tzu on February 18, 2011, at 23:16:21
I've taken B6 200mg for years for water weight. I thought all the B's were water soluable and what your body doesn't need is eliminated in urine? Phillipa
Posted by Lao Tzu on March 3, 2011, at 10:18:19
In reply to B6 is amazing!, posted by Christ_empowered on February 17, 2011, at 8:49:34
I think there is something useful in taking B6 for depression and anxiety. I take 200mg per day, but I also have to use sufficient doses of zinc; otherwise, higher doses of B6 can seem too stimulating. Use only high quality B6, preferably in capsule form without all the other chemicals found in tablets. I used to take only 100mg B6 per day because I thought this was sufficient. However, over the years I have found that this dosage produces only a modest change in anxiety and depression. It just isn't enough if you are severely deficient in B6, i.e. pyroluria. It may take 1-2months of supplementation to see the most benefit. So far it has been a little more than a month, and oddly, I notice that people are definitely more friendly to me and more tolerant. Is this because of B6? It's strange how one can sense a difference in social cues just because of what supplement you are taking. Maybe it's my strange perception, but I do notice that people tend to be more social with me. It's not quite like being on Ativan, but it's the next best thing. I can't say that I am a social butterfly. My personality tends towards introversion, but I am definitely not as shy as I used to be, and definitely not as anxious. However, mental illness is difficult to interpret with just taking vitamins alone. Maybe it is a social disease as well, but I think that negative perceptions are just in the mind. Anyone has the ability to choose negative or positive attitudes in one's life owing to all the resources at your disposal. I think mental illness is probably a disease of loneliness and the altered perceptions that result from lonely ruminations. It is the imagination running away with you, and a tendency to think of fearful situations because one is not getting any positive feedback from others. Anyway, I give B6 and zinc an 8 out of 10 only because it isn't a cure, but it makes life more bearable.
Lao
Posted by Franz on April 2, 2011, at 15:58:29
In reply to B6 is amazing!, posted by Christ_empowered on February 17, 2011, at 8:49:34
Folia Histochem Cytobiol. 2005;43(3):143-50.
Effects of excess vitamin B6 intake on cerebral cortex neurons in rat: an ultrastructural study.Demir R, Acar G, Tanriover G, Seval Y, Kayisli UA, Agar A.
Department of Histology and Embryology, Faculty of Medicine, Akdeniz University, Antalya, Turkey. rdemir@akdeniz.edu.tr
AbstractThe aim of this study was to investigate whether excess of vitamin B6 leads to ultrastructural changes in cerebral cortex of forty-eight healthy albino rats which were included in the study. Saline solution was injected to to the control groups (CG-10, n = 12 for 10 days; CG-15, n = 12 for 15 days; CG-20, n=12 for 20 days). The three experimental groups (EG-10, n = 12; EG-15, n = 12; EG-20, n = 12) were treated with 5 mg/kg vitamin B6 daily for 10 days (EG-10), 15 days (EG-15) and 20 days (EG-20). Brain tissues were prepared by glutaraldehyde-osmium tetroxide double fixation for ultrastructural analysis. No significant changes were observed in the control groups. The ultrastructural analysis revealed that the numbers of damaged mitochondria, lipofuscin granules and vacuoles were significantly higher in all the experimental groups than in the control groups (p < 0.05). However, synaptic density was significantly decreased in the experimental groups as compared to the control groups (p < 0.05). The results suggest that the excess of vitamin B6 intake causes damage to the cerebral cortex due to cellular intoxication and decreased synaptic density. Thus, careful attention should be paid to the time and dose of vitamin B6 recommended for patients who are supplemented with this vitamin.
PMID: 16201314 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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