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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 13, 2010, at 21:03:05
Hello mate,
Could you recommed a good/trustworthy melatonin brand?
Thank you
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 14, 2010, at 7:10:46
In reply to Good Melatonin brand, posted by ralphrost2 on January 13, 2010, at 21:03:05
If you go to iherb.com they have a lot of reviews on different products, including many brands of melatonin. You don't have to buy there, but it's a great resource for research. (I do usually shop there, though, because they have good prices and service, plus cheap shipping. I think I have a 5 dollar off coupon code I could give you if you want to babblemail me.) There are other online sites that have reviews too.
Are you considering taking melatonin for insomnia? If so, another good supplement for sleep is magnesium, any type but magnesium oxide (there are several different kinds). Lots of people use magnesium citrate for insomnia, but you have to be careful with dosing (start with a small amount and build up) because it can cause diarrhea if you take too much. Magensium glycinate is less likely to cause diarrhea, but I think citrate might be better for sleep. At least for me, when I take citrate I feel sleepy within a half hour or so. I can take glycinate during the day without getting immediately sleepy. (I do this for daytime calming.) Even just taking the glycinate in the morning, though, I haven't been having trouble falling asleep at night, and I was an insomniac for most of my life.
Magnesium is a mineral that 3/4 of Americans don't get enough of, so supplementing is probably not a bad idea anyway. There are some combo calcium/magnesium liquids that don't taste too bad that people take for sleep, too. Good way to get both at once.
I tried melatonin a couple times and it didn't seem to help with sleep. If anything, I think it made me more depressed the next day (I've seen other people mention that it can do this). I found that magnesium works better for me. Others seem to do well with melatonin, though. Tryptophan is another option.
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 14, 2010, at 11:48:39
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 14, 2010, at 7:10:46
Hello Jane!
That was very helpful and kind.
I'm really having a bad time with insomnia/bad sleep quality. Some nights I sleep only 1h or so (I stay in bed awaken, trying to rest at least my body).
I'm taking precisely Magnesium Oxide, but it doesn't seem to do anything. As you pointed out, it's no good. I'll try the other preparations.
Maybe I'll order also Melatonin. I've heard that it works as a mild hypnotic, and that sounds temptating (I tried Zopiclone once, and for the first time I understood that sleep can be enjoyable).
Thanks a lot
Ralph
Posted by Sigismund on January 15, 2010, at 2:46:15
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 14, 2010, at 7:10:46
Hey Ralph, I didn't find that melatonin was much help with sleep.
It does have, as you say, a mild hypnotic effect.
I've taken this
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00990/Natural-Sleep-Melatonin.html
though it has magnesium oxide, just to get it in the capsuleIs your problem with sleep maintenance or getting off to sleep?
I don't know if agomelatine is available in your country? It is in the EU now. It is something to bear in mind. Not magic, not bloody awful either.
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 4:59:15
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand, posted by Sigismund on January 15, 2010, at 2:46:15
Thanks Sig.
The problem arised with Hypericum intake, which worked really well for depression. Some nights are impossible to get asleep, and when I do get I have bad sleep quality (light dream). Even sleeping I feel that times passes very slowly.
I just decreased the Hypericum dosage. Let's hope the good effect persists.
I wasn't aware of Agomelatine. It sounds interesting. But it may take a while until it lands in Brazil.
Peace
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 7:42:54
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand, posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 4:59:15
> The problem arised with Hypericum intake, which worked really well for depression.
Good to hear it's working on the depression. I hope reducing the dose helps with your sleep. I don't know what brands you have available there, but I've read that of the popular ones in the US, Kira is more calming while Perika is more activating. Maybe if you tried a more calming formulation, your sleep quality would improve. Might something to consider if it continues to be a problem. The risk would be that the antidepressant effect might not be the same.
Have you ever been to the site below?
There seem to be lots of experienced users there who might be able to offer advice.
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 8:52:46
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 7:42:54
Jane,
I am somewhat afraid of switching brands. It's been a long road to get to this point, and, you know, I'm afraid of losing momentum. I take a brand called Iperisan, which is in the market for long and it's reliable/consistent. There is also Remotiv (the same as in EU), which I may try if sleep doesn't improve.
SJWinfo is very good, isn't? I use to visit there sometimes.
How are you doing with your treatment? Hope you're fine.
Thanks a lot
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 9:40:28
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand, posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 8:52:46
I understand your fear of changing brands. I'd be worried about that too.
I'm actually trying rhodiola rosea right now, which I think has promise. There's a section about it at the SJW forum, though it isn't very active. I've never given SJW a good trial, but might if rhodiola doesn't work out. (Combining the two is another possibility.)
It's always encouraging to hear about someone finding relief, so I was glad to hear that you're doing well. It's too bad about the insomnia, though. If reducing the dose doesn't help, do try the magnesium citrate. I was very skeptical, but pleasantly surprised when it actually worked.
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 11:07:22
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 9:40:28
For me it was quite unbelievable that it worked. I used to feel apathetic or weird on any drug. It took about 2 weeks until I felt there was something interesting going on while under SJW. The first weeks were harsh, because I would feel anxious or have severe sleep problems. But there was an intuition that I was feeling more like myself somehow. That was encouraging and seemed the right way to go.
The difference between feeling any improvement of sympthoms (what I felt under any other drug) and actually feeling a bit like your old self again is striking. And that gives one the possibility to deal with feelings, rather than suppressing them.
I wish you much luck with your treatment. I heard good things about RR. And there is always the possibility of combining 5-HTP or Tyrosine to RR or SJW. These seem to be the most common combos people try, usually with virtually no side effects.
Have a nice weekend
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 12:45:50
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand, posted by ralphrost2 on January 15, 2010, at 11:07:22
Thanks for the encouragement, Ralph. You have a good weekend too!
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 18, 2010, at 7:24:20
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 15, 2010, at 12:45:50
Jane,
I'd like to add two questions:
- How much Magnesium do people report that's useful for sleep?
- What do you think of the chelate form?Thank you
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 18, 2010, at 9:05:00
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » janejane, posted by ralphrost2 on January 18, 2010, at 7:24:20
Ralph,
If a bottle just says "magnesium chelate" (or even just "magnesium"), you may be able to look at the back to see what form it is. For example, I have one that says "chelated magnesium" on the front, but in the ingredients it specifies that it's magnesium glycinate. This would mean that the magnesium was chelated with glycine. If it says taurate or taurinate, then it would be taurine. Those two would probably both be good choices since the amino acids they are made with are associated with calming. I've read that there is one form called asparate and another called glutamate, which some people say are less desirable for use with depressed people since the aminos they are chelated with are excitatory. (I don't think those two are very common, though.) There are other forms too, but I don't know what the pros and cons would be. If you find one you have a question about, you might be able to look it up.
As for dosing, I think the recommended daily allowance for men is 400 mg per day. You might try 200 to start, and work up as required. I think I remember reading that up to 600 per day is quite safe since it isn't stored in the body and any extra just comes out in your urine.
You can learn a lot more about magnesium by searching the archives here. That's pretty much where I learned what I know. Of course you can ask me more questions if you have them.
-Jane
Posted by ralphrost2 on January 28, 2010, at 9:23:06
In reply to magnesium » ralphrost2, posted by janejane on January 18, 2010, at 9:05:00
Jane,
Three days ago I ordered some Mg citrate and some Melatonin. I think I'll receive the stuff in the next days.
SJW is willing to lose its effectiveness... I had to make some dose changes in order to cause some positive change... Maybe this is because sleep was ruined and my body said: "enough of this cr*p"?
Hard to figure. But I need to find some tricks to keep the circus running...
If my body says no to SJW I might try RR... It's my initials, so it might work for real :D
Ralph
Posted by janejane on January 28, 2010, at 10:51:57
In reply to Re: magnesium » janejane, posted by ralphrost2 on January 28, 2010, at 9:23:06
Ralph,
I'm so sorry to hear the SJW is losing effectiveness. I didn't think it would poop out since you didn't stop it completely, just lowered the dose, right? How long has it been seen you went back up to the higher dose? Are you actually taking more now than you used to?
I remember reading on the SJW forum that sometimes when it seems like it's losing effectiveness it actually means you should take less. Do you remember that? It seems less likely in your case since your depression came back after lowering it, but maybe you can ask the people over there what they think.
If you want to try RR, the most recommended brand is Mind Body Spirit by Verde Botanica which is sold at proactivebio.com. I believe they ship internationally. This is what I've been using and it hasn't caused insomnia for me. When I first started it, I felt pretty good the same day, almost normal. But it seems to be losing effectiveness. Taking more helped, but not enough. I recently added 10 mg prozac so we'll see whether that's the answer. There's a guy who posted on the med board about it (John something) who has been taking the MBS rhodiola for years and it still works great for him.
Good luck,
Jane
Posted by ralphrost2 on February 2, 2010, at 10:38:09
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand, posted by Sigismund on January 15, 2010, at 2:46:15
Sigismund,
I just checked that Agomelatine is approved here in Brazil. That got me quite interested...
Do you feel that the drug is mild or rather potent? Does it feel stimulating?
Thanks
Ralph
Posted by Sigismund on February 2, 2010, at 17:29:21
In reply to Re: Good Melatonin brand » Sigismund, posted by ralphrost2 on February 2, 2010, at 10:38:09
>Do you feel that the drug is mild or rather potent? Does it feel stimulating?
People say that the AD effect of agomelatine is less robust than the AD effect of SSRIs when they work well. It will not make you feel like a happy cow. This is what people say....I haven't tried SSRIs. The upside is that it will help normalise sleep and the effect during the next day leaves you feeling like yourself. And the absence of side effects, except for some people who get elevated liver enzyme numbers.
It is stimulating next day, and at the same time somewhat calming. Afternoon anxiety can be a problem, but keeping the dose and expectations low can help avoid this. Eventually your body will adjust.
Posted by Sigismund on February 2, 2010, at 17:31:17
In reply to Agomelatine » ralphrost2, posted by Sigismund on February 2, 2010, at 17:29:21
>The upside is that it will help normalise sleep
There is no antihistamine type effect.
This is the end of the thread.
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