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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nolagirl on June 24, 2007, at 23:08:12
Hi Guys,
It has been awhile since I have been here. I recently quit a 33 yr. pack a day habit. For the past 6 yrs., I had become more and more depressed, anhedonic really, and totally treatment resistant. After 8 days of being smoke free, I am actually beginning to participate in life again. What the heck could cigarettes have been doing to me brain other than standard nicotine addiction? Could they have been causing dopamine depletion depression? Damaging the substantia nigra? I sure would appreciate any insights. I had always been afraid of giving up my smokes because I thought that I couldn't handle my depression without them. If I had known that quiting would have lifted my mood and motivation, I would have tossed them decades ago!
Thanks,
NOLAgirl
Posted by linkadge on June 25, 2007, at 8:23:28
In reply to What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolagirl on June 24, 2007, at 23:08:12
I don't know about dopaminergic dammage. Nicotine is neuroprotective in many models of dopaminergic neurotoxicity. That is why, smokers, apparently have less incidence of parkinsons.
Well I wouldn't smoke just for that.
Smoking is a powerful psychoactive expereince. There are a lot of psychoactive substances in tobacco smoke. Nicotine alone does not replace the effects of cigarretes completely. There are substances in tobbacco that prolong the pleasurable effects of nicotine.
If you are still experiencing depression, you may want to try St. John's Wort if you havn't already. There have been a few promising studies suggesting it is helpful for maintaining abstainance.Linkadge
Posted by LOOPS on June 27, 2007, at 9:24:48
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by linkadge on June 25, 2007, at 8:23:28
Hi nolagirl -
congrats on the quitting!!!
I have been chewing nicorette and a lot of it for years, as well as smoking very thin roll ups in between! I have suffered from depression and specifically it seems from low dopamine AND serotonin for about the same length of time. In the end I 'controlled' this by taking lots of vitamins and minerals. I think I also developed excessively high epinephrine levels as I became quite anxious in normal situations, and if I think right back I was never like this before getting hooked on nicotine.
Nicotine is a stimulant and I was taking a lot of it a day. I would guess that any excessive consumption of stimulants will produce a burn out effect, and probably lower levels of nutrients needed to maintain a calm, healthy nervous system. JMO.
Recently I started taking that Chantix stuff (derived from citisine) after many failed attempts (I couldn't even get past 5 hours without totally flipping out). I am very pleased with the results so far, although it is still early to tell if I will be successful. I am not smoking today or chewing nicorette, and I am going through a physical withdrawal, but mentally it is doable with this drug.
I don't mean to hijack your thread btw! For anyone that is interested, being the anxious type prone to insomnia I was worried about this being exacerbated but it wasn't at all. I just dream loads.
Anyway good for you for doing it cold turkey (I assume?) - you must be very proud of yourself.
I would second the st johns wort for tobacco withdrawal-induced depression if you ever find you have a problem with that (I gather tobacco is an MAOI inhibitor, and so it SJW it seems).
Take care
Loops
Posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 10:24:21
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by LOOPS on June 27, 2007, at 9:24:48
hi loops,
i used the chantix for the first 2 weeks then switched to flavored toothpicks and lolipops. i don't trust the pharma companies and thought i'd duke it out on my own since the nicotine is gone in 72 hrs. i have had a couple of strung out days but try to remember that i had plenty of strung out days when i was smoking. being a new orleanian can be rough!
i used to have a very active dream life and that disappeared a few years back along with motivation, creativity, libido, concentration , joy, etc.... since i quit the cigs, they are starting to come back. i really thought that it was just the progression of my mental illness and gave up. i am really looking forward to seeing who i am when the receptors heal!good luck with your quit. i know that you can do it too! i found alot of help at whyquit.com. i read the aricles and posts there 2x a day for extra motivation.
thanks,
nolagirl
Posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 10:25:45
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by linkadge on June 25, 2007, at 8:23:28
Posted by LOOPS on June 27, 2007, at 18:53:47
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 10:24:21
Hi once more nolagirl -
did you get any renewed cigarette cravings when you ditched the Chantix? Also any withdrawal from the Chantix itself? I am pretty confident in having success this time round, but I think I will taper off the Chantix once I'm completely sure I can cope with most situations thrown my way. HOwever many people seem to be able to come off Chantix immediately without any problems, even after several months useage.
I know what you mean about the stressed when smoking, stressed when without as well - this time round the main difference for me is I can actually REMEMBER the reasons I quit instead of falling into a complete withdrawal frenzy and forgetting them. Nature of the addiction I suppose.
Good continuing luck to you. It is indeed possible to quit and continue as a non-smoker, and more importantly, to be happier as a result. That is the end goal after all for most people.
Well done once more!
Loops
Posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 19:52:52
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 10:24:21
hi loops,
thanks for the well wishes and vote of confidence!
i have had bouts of anger and anxiety going off the chantix. i did a taper down to 25mgs a day. yesterday was the last. can't tell if the feelings are from the chantix withdrawl or just being ticked off that i can't have my smokes. i had read some web posts that there is a withdrawl from the med. who knows? i just want to get it all out so i can see what my own baseline is. if it gets too weird, i'll try the st. john's wort. that gave me a wicked headache when i tried it before but at this point anything is better than the cigs!
a few years back, i spent a some time on the flight deck of our now defunct charity hospital. i had a bout of the crazies. if i could make it through that, i can make it through this. i don't know where the determination is coming from but i'll use it while i can. nicotine and i were in an abusive relationship and i'm just done! sounds like you are at that point too.
if the chantix is working, stay the course. it really did help me. sending good smoke free thoughts your way!
nolagirl
Posted by nolvas on June 27, 2007, at 19:59:21
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 19:52:52
Allen Carr's "Easy Way to Stop Smoking" is supposed to be good.
Posted by LOOPS on June 28, 2007, at 9:53:52
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolvas on June 27, 2007, at 19:59:21
hi nolvas -
25mg??? I am on 1mg twice a day which is the top dose. I'm sorry you had some problems coming off - I have read a few people tapered very slowly indeed - still, all kinds of things in life can make us angry and stressed. Is it as bad as nicotine withdrawal though? I don't want to flip out like I did cold turkey - that was scary.
I have read Allen Carr's book - twice in fact. The first time I quit for a whole week without much problem and then started smoking again for no apparent reason. I think it is a good book for many people but I do think it is hypnosis and that never works for me in the long run. The second time I read it I only managed 24 hours before I had the biggest panic attack in my life and couldn't hold out any longer. It was awful!
This time seems much better - partly because I think the Chantix really does re-educate your brain whilst you're still smoking - I think that is the main reason it works - that and filling the receptors. If it is not habit-forming like nicotine doseing then I think I can probably come off it without too much hassle. I hope!
I am religiously still doseing myself up with magnesium and vitamins and I think this may be why I haven't had many of the side-effects I've read other people having. Constipation and insomnia aren't a big issue for me, and I have had had chronic insomnia all my life. Also no joint pain - just some tension in my shoulder which I think is from nicotine withdrawal. I'm also back on fish oil to try to help my brain function optimally whilst I'm on this drug.
Loops
Posted by nolagirl on June 28, 2007, at 11:07:26
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by LOOPS on June 28, 2007, at 9:53:52
Posted by LOOPS on June 28, 2007, at 17:06:21
In reply to Re: What have cigarettes been doing to my brain?, posted by nolagirl on June 27, 2007, at 19:52:52
yeah that sounds more like it.
If you have anxiety, have you tried taking magnesium? I also find Holy Basil Extract very good for stress. Failing all that how about some good old fashioned tryptophan? Vitamin C and zinc might also help, or taurine. Taurine, magnesium and some vitamin B1 (or some complex) might also help. If in real dire straights, I find valerian very 'numbing' during the day. Passiflora as well.
Good luck - I will be where you are now hopefully in some time. This has got to be both the best and most traumatic thing I will ever do/have done. We will both make it!
Loops
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