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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 14:39:49
Hello all,im on the Maoi parnate and after 4 years of use im exper poopout.I have already tried an extensive variation of medication to try and augment it to work again,having various success.
I also have used at one time or other natural products succesfully to augment,they have been taurine,l-theanie,and kava kava.
Im not having much luck now with anything,does anyone have any suggestion on a possable augment addition of either a herb,nutrient etc to parnate.
Posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 15:09:27
In reply to Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 14:39:49
It sounds like you want something calming, Willy. Would that be right? Or if it's poopout.......
One idea would be those protein powders that have been hydrolised, (is it?), Musashi's Shi Ho is one. When I've taken that with my small Parnate dose it has made my insomnia worse, which probably also means that amino acids like phenylalanine and tyrosine in the protein shake were leading to higher than usual levels of NE and Dopamine. When I complained of this to my nutritional dr he said that tyrosine and phenylalanine might interfere with the transport of tryptophan across (what?) the BB barrier (maybe). So he recommended taking extra 5htp in the afternoon, which I've done the last couple of days and might have helped. My guess is that you've tried protein powders, you look like you work out anyway, from the photo I saw of you. But a couple of scoops of such powder contains as much amino acids as a handful of capsules. You could also try pyridoxal5phosphate with the protein powder. Starting there makes most sense to me.
Incidentally, how are you sleeping, and if you are, how do you manage it?All the best
Declan
Posted by linkadge on August 3, 2005, at 15:53:15
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 15:09:27
Actually when I was on parnate, some high quality magnesium supplements really kept it working.
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 17:14:21
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 15:09:27
> It sounds like you want something calming, Willy. Would that be right? Or if it's poopout.......
>
> One idea would be those protein powders that have been hydrolised, (is it?), Musashi's Shi Ho is one. When I've taken that with my small Parnate dose it has made my insomnia worse, which probably also means that amino acids like phenylalanine and tyrosine in the protein shake were leading to higher than usual levels of NE and Dopamine. When I complained of this to my nutritional dr he said that tyrosine and phenylalanine might interfere with the transport of tryptophan across (what?) the BB barrier (maybe). So he recommended taking extra 5htp in the afternoon, which I've done the last couple of days and might have helped. My guess is that you've tried protein powders, you look like you work out anyway, from the photo I saw of you. But a couple of scoops of such powder contains as much amino acids as a handful of capsules. You could also try pyridoxal5phosphate with the protein powder. Starting there makes most sense to me.
>
> Incidentally, how are you sleeping, and if you are, how do you manage it?
>
> All the best
>
> DeclanActualy its rather simple,its just not providing much of an anti-depressant effect.Ironcally what it seems to do at this point is kinda act as a mood stablizer,meaning if i take enough of it im ok,not worse.Im trying to remeber why i like this medication so much and its getting harder everday.I rember it once light my mind like a psychostimulant,and i feel confident,MOTIVATED,pro-social,now i take it to feel no less than crummy.
Yess i now have terrable sleep problems.But honestly i think a lot of it is due to just depression comming around in the late night.I think if the med worked better id have less sleeping problems.Im not doing too much to combat it as i found sleeping pills just make it that much less effective the following day.
I could look into magnesium supplments,i just want this med to get a kick in the a- and nothing im trying seems to cut it latly,its been a while since i rember it have a robust anti-depressant effect.
I was using pure caffiene for w hile but just the side effects of that came to much,also caffiene stopped energizing it,and instead made me more fatigued and tired in the day,which is a problem i have with it.
Isnt it wierd that caffiene would make it more tiring in the day than taking it alone?
Im in great hope of the patch,maimly cause taking no medication isnt much of a option,and aside from aumgentation,there doesent seem to be a single med id feel motivated enough to take primary.
I might try adding maybe Same to it?
Posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 20:07:43
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 17:14:21
Well, I dunno about SAMe and Parnate. I'd taken 400mg/d SAMe for years, and while it wasn't the ants pants I never had any problems with it. When I added 10mg/d Parnate I became agitated. It certainly potentiated the Parnate. A smaller dose of SAMe might have been OK. I don't think it was a dopamine thing because I can take deprenyl and Parnate together OK. I think it was some seratonin thing.
Declan
Posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 23:02:58
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 20:07:43
> Well, I dunno about SAMe and Parnate. I'd taken 400mg/d SAMe for years, and while it wasn't the ants pants I never had any problems with it. When I added 10mg/d Parnate I became agitated. It certainly potentiated the Parnate. A smaller dose of SAMe might have been OK. I don't think it was a dopamine thing because I can take deprenyl and Parnate together OK. I think it was some seratonin thing.
> DeclanWell actualy higher doses for me of parnate are much less stimulating in a bad way,higher doses are more calming.
PERHAPS and i do mean perhaps,a higher dose of parnate with samE might be smoother,i was able to tolerate dexadrine with parnate,which i believe had id been willing to go higher it might have worked.
I was just hesitant with its amphetamine properties to mess with it,but again what is life if its a struggle to simply exist.
Decaln u have offered some good insight for a while now i thank you,along with everyone else.
Spreading information is gonna be the only way anyone gets any better!
Posted by willyee on August 4, 2005, at 8:33:41
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 23:02:58
Lucky me of kava i got actualy worked,all the crap brands ive had trying to re-capture some of kava`s extreme euphria i finaly came across one.
I doubt it will be consistent as kava is a weird herb.But when it works,my goodness,well vault of erowid has a entire section on it to those curious.
All i can say is it hits 15 receptor sites at once,and thats all they know of!It truly is a unique herb.Still continuing on my parnate trials but had a great day thanks to the addition of kava yester,talked a female friend for hours with no feeling of the need to get off and clean or do something i think is important,i just chatted,was a nice change!
Posted by nolvas on August 4, 2005, at 14:51:12
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 4, 2005, at 8:33:41
konakavafarm seems to have good reports. They have 70% and 84% kava and a decent amount in each capsule. Or you can buy the raw root there. I plan to get some so I can try and use Kava instead of Benzos when I need to
Posted by willyee on August 4, 2005, at 15:17:53
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by nolvas on August 4, 2005, at 14:51:12
When it works well,its quite something aint it!
Posted by EERRIICC on August 6, 2005, at 19:28:13
In reply to Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 14:39:49
I'm in the same situation you are, parnate keeps pooping out on me. I'm going to try memantine, ritalin, naltrexone, pergolide, and a TCA.
Can I take DLPA with parnate without it precipitating a hypertensive reaction?
Thanks,
Eric
Posted by Declan on August 7, 2005, at 2:44:55
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by EERRIICC on August 6, 2005, at 19:28:13
You certainly can augment MAOIs with amino acids. As they are a part of food this makes sense. But it is important to be careful. I would suggest carefully trying one of those hydrolised protein powders. In them I think the amino acids are in a free form. When I took a half dose (1 scoop) of one such I was kept awake half the night. I also take Parnate 10mg/d. (I'm 52 and sleep badly anyway.) Such protein powders are full of all the different amino acids. And you could add pyridoxal 5 phosphate and vitC to enhance neurotransmitter synthesis. But of course you would want to do this *carefully*.
Declan
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 7, 2005, at 16:12:30
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by Declan on August 7, 2005, at 2:44:55
I'm combining Rhodiola with Marplan to combat the fatigue that Marplan causes
It does seem to be helping a little, and I'm not having any side effects
Posted by Ktemene on August 7, 2005, at 19:48:06
In reply to Re: Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 4, 2005, at 8:33:41
What brand of Kava worked for you? If you used some of the powdered stuff, did you prepare it in any special way? I ask because I've tried two or three kinds, and none of them has had much of an effect...
> Lucky me of kava i got actualy worked,all the crap brands ive had trying to re-capture some of kava`s extreme euphria i finaly came across one.
>
> I doubt it will be consistent as kava is a weird herb.But when it works,my goodness,well vault of erowid has a entire section on it to those curious.
>
> All i can say is it hits 15 receptor sites at once,and thats all they know of!It truly is a unique herb.Still continuing on my parnate trials but had a great day thanks to the addition of kava yester,talked a female friend for hours with no feeling of the need to get off and clean or do something i think is important,i just chatted,was a nice change!
Posted by nolvas on August 8, 2005, at 6:25:46
In reply to Re: Maoi augment-What Brand of Kava?, posted by Ktemene on August 7, 2005, at 19:48:06
I've tried various brands like you have and none have worked for me.
After reading these forums www.konakavafarm.com was suggested. I'm hoping to purchase some of their 84% capsules.
The difference between these capsules and the store bought ones is that the total amount in mg of kavalactones is much higher.
A quote from konakavafarm about their 30% capsules
" 30% KAVALACTONE CAPSULES: One of our most popular products, these 350mg root-only capsules contain 30% Kavalactone extract. Kava Kava is revered for its calming, pain management, and even its aphrodisiac qualities. We use only our Kona Kava roots to suit the needs for long and pleasant ceremonies that are conducive to sociability and the telling of long stories. Ours have true 30% Kavalactone unlike store-bought capsules that only have 50mg of 30%, while the rest is regular powdered root"
They also adopt the same approach with their 84% capsules, therefore I have no doubt that these capsules from konakavafarm are potent. If I buy these and they don't have an effect then I will probably just give up on kava. They do look promising though. I will just have to buy some and see.
Posted by djmmm on August 8, 2005, at 8:43:17
In reply to Maoi augment, posted by willyee on August 3, 2005, at 14:39:49
> Hello all,im on the Maoi parnate and after 4 years of use im exper poopout.I have already tried an extensive variation of medication to try and augment it to work again,having various success.
>
> I also have used at one time or other natural products succesfully to augment,they have been taurine,l-theanie,and kava kava.
>
> Im not having much luck now with anything,does anyone have any suggestion on a possable augment addition of either a herb,nutrient etc to parnate.
There are several things you can try...I have used a good amino acid supplement (protein supplement with no sugar)
I find that taking a high potency B-Complex vitamin works
also..I have had good success with DMAE, D-phenylalanine, and DHEA (all can be found at a health food store)
This is the end of the thread.
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