![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 15:23:48
In reply to Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar?, posted by Cyleilo on April 20, 2004, at 10:51:07
I think homeopathics are a great adjunct. If you find the right remedy it can effectively disrupt an unhealthy energetic pattern that has set up house. A bad vibe, so to speak. But it's pretty delicate and best done with the help of a homeopath. A good homeopath will take a very detailed history - almost like an intense psychotherapy/physical session - and then prescribe based on your whole constitution and not just your symptoms.
I've seen amazing things happen with my cats, who were going through some very rough times this past winter, both health and emotional. Two of them were in crisis and we took them to a holistic vet and after finding the right remedy, the change was undeniable. Especially in Jasper, who was going totally insane every evening. His eyes would dilate, his skin become red and inflamed, he was attacking the others and causing total mayhem in our home environment that was already going through severe stresses. The vet said it was a clear cut case for Belladonna. It was rarely so evident a case. One course of 1M Belladonna and he is a new cat. Another cat's serious physical problems really turned the corner after being given a few courses of 1M Sulphur. I have personally been helped by homeopathics and flower essences, but not so dramatically as my cats.
To get to the deep emotional levels, you have to work with the high potencies and you can't get these at the local natural foods market. So, best of luck finding a great homeopath. That's the next step for me too, so let's keep each other posted. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Cyleilo on April 22, 2004, at 17:07:21
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 15:23:48
BarbaraCat, it's been interesting to read your posts. I'm new to Psychobabble and have read a lot of old posts, and always got a lot out of yours in particular. Plus, your writing is so beautiful. My story is kind of the opposite of yours, except for the suffering. Long story short: been trying to get well for many years. 27 years ago, age 24, realized I was an alcoholic, (a "periodic" and got it before that disease had progressed very far), went to AA and have been following that spiritual, substance free life since then, practicing a lot of what you talk about (living in the now, going through the emotions, praying, meditating, realizing my powerlessness over most of life, getting out of "self.") It helped enormously, saved my life, and yet, there was always a struggle, big ups and downs. 17 years ago I was diagnosed with Bipolar II. I tried Lithium but it didn't do much, didn't like the side effects (hair loss, having to take thyroid) so after 2 years, I got off it. Some years later I tried Prozac for 2 months, but that was a disaster - it precipitated mania, so got off that. I tried mightily to heal without any meds, hoping I could heal with the power of mind, and also scared as hell about drugs. And I've done fairly well, with very good periods, although always there's a struggle. I've been through having a baby at age 42, chronic sleep deprivation for one reason or another since then, breast cancer treated with chemo and radiation which precipitated instant menopause with all its ills, and all sorts of other family/life stresses. Last fall, the straw that broke the camel's back was learning my son is on the autistic spectrum (after going through many years of difficulty with him), and I've been severely depressed ever since. I opened my mind to the possibility I might need drugs (AAAAAHHHH). The psychiatrist recommended lamictal, but said I should try Omega-3's first, which I did for many months with no success. Then someone suggested homeopathy. I have a bottle of Lamictal on the dresser, none used, and I'm going crazy trying to decide whether to try yet another thing (homeopathy) in order to avoid the dreaded drugs. I have located a wonderful homeopath. But I feel I don't have the strength anymore, even to make the appointment, or the patience. So I'm on the precipice. I've been basically drug free for 27 years, except for the brief Lithium/Prozac experiments, and now I feel like I need help, need a break, needs meds, but I'm so scared of drugs. I don't even know why I'm writing about this, maybe just trying to work out in my own mind which path to follow. When you say you think homeopathy is a great adjunct, do you mean adjunct to meds? The research I've done on homeopathy seems to indicate it doesn't do much for mood stabilization, but it does help a lot with the depression. I was so interested to hear about the success with your cats. Anyway, now I'm just psychobabbling. Thanks again for your reply and good luck with your path. It sounds like you're doing so well, working through so much, in spite of "it all." One day at a time, eh?, rather, one minute at a time.
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 21:24:35
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar?, posted by Cyleilo on April 22, 2004, at 17:07:21
Thanks for your sweet words! I don't feel that homeopathy is enough to get you out of a major bad place but can be used pretty well to maintain things once you're stable. Or can be used along with meds to deal with the energetic stuck patterns that meds don't address. Sometimes you can get lucky and find the right remedy like my lucky cats. But that usually takes time, and in the meantime it's best not to spiral down too far and deplete your whole system. God bless any medication that relieves things long enough find level ground and take the load off for a while.
As for Lamictal, I had good luck with it along with lithium. In fact, it was the only combo that worked to bring me out of a constant horrible mixed state depression that was going on for years. When my Mom died I had to add on nortriptyline because I was descending pretty badly. This combo worked very well but I stopped after 4 months, with no residual problems, because of dry mouth side effects. The lithium/lam combo worked well for about 1-1/2 years and then just pooped out. I was finally ready to address the underlying issues, I guess. Had no choice, really, cause nothing was working anymore.
I was on a pretty small dose of lithium, 600 mg as opposed to the huge doses you usually hear about, and I think it's because Lamictal potentiated it and vice versa. I never had the stooopids at this level, but it did aggravate my hypothyroid condition. I had to start increasing the lamictal dose as things began pooping out and with every increase I'd feel agitation. I also started getting symptoms of 'the rash', intense itchiness. In fact, I did get Stevens Johnson Syndrome just last month and was pretty darn sick with it. Not from lamictal, but from a sulfa drug. I've never been allergic to meds before and I can't help feel that Lamictal primed the pump in my already sensitive immune system. This has caused me to be very cautious with any drug. But that's just me at this point, and while the lith/lam combo worked, it worked well.
Have you looked into your hormone levels? I can't stress enough how important it is to get your levels checked and address any imbalances. I was on the standard relatively 'natural' hormones I got from my primary care doc, but no tests were ever done, it was just the cookie cutter dose. I was pretty amazed at the results of the saliva tests I eventually had done -- way off the mark! and the custom made cream I use prescribed by the naturopath has helped alot. You can't expect any mood meds to hold for long if there's an underlying metabolic dyfunction going on.
But in the meantime, you gotta be able to rub two brain cells together to get motivated and focussed long enough to sleuth out all these other underlying factors. So, maybe if things keep being real hard for you, giving lamictal a try would be worthwhile. Sometimes you need a big shovel to dig out of a hole. I just don't think that staying on psych meds forever is healthy because there's always something else going on.
Posted by Cyleilo on April 23, 2004, at 11:23:15
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 21:24:35
Thanks SO MUCH for your thoughtful responses. You and Joebob have really been helpful in this difficult decision time. You both seem to be saying the same thing. I feel like I could get out of this hole without a drug, I've done it before . . . but it's taken a long time, even a couple of years really when I think about it, from depth of the hole to "normalcy" and then it tips over into mild mania for awhile, and then - BOOM, back to the hole. I don't have the time. My son needs me as wholly functioning as I can be to address all the issues surrounding his difficulties. My husband - patient and loving husband - would probably be really happy to have a functioning wife again, although he supports unconditionally anything I decide. The thing I fear with meds is something you mentioned, how they just poop out after awhile. I'm afraid to go on Lamictal, have it work, and then have it not work. It was so horrible when I was on Prozac briefly, to feel so good, and then to have it get out of control into mania, then have to go off it, and feel like my sight had been restored briefly and I was back to being blind again. It was worse than never having come out of the cave to begin with, if you know what I mean. That's what frightens me. To get something going again, and then have it peter out once again. But that is projecting and envisioning the worst, something I'm really expert at. Lamictal is not Prozac, and from what I know now, Prozac is not a drug bipolars should take without a stabilizer.
I like the idea that while I'm digging out with meds, I can do some other things like homeopathy, to help the process. And it's been very helpful to hear from both you and Joebob that homeopathy, by itself, probably isn't enough and takes a long time. I've also wondered about my thyroid. The tests come back in the normal range, but then I've heard that the numbers don't always reflect what's really going on, and to look at the symptoms rather than the numbers. I've never been to an endocrinolgist. As for hormone levels: do you mean estrogen/progesterone, that kind of thing? If so, the problem for me is that I have to avoid estrogen because my cancer was estrogen sensitive, meaning my kind of cancer is encouraged by estrogen.
Again, thanks to you and Joebob for your experience, strength, and hope. I've had a certain candle holder I've lit almost every day since Christmas, a little chubby angel with her arms wrapped around the votive. That one little spark of light has gotten me through some tough days, mostly tough days actually. Now this psychobabbling is helping, adding a little more light every day into the gloom.
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2004, at 14:13:43
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar?, posted by Cyleilo on April 23, 2004, at 11:23:15
I'm glad to be able to lend some support for you during these difficult days. It gets very alone feeling after a while, especially when you've been struggling for so long and others around you depend on you and/or are getting a tad frustrated ('why can't she just snap out of it?'). There's always a sense of weak-will we blame ourselves with, not matter how our rational mind tells us we're really sick and simply don't have the spark to move through the day without being overwhelmed.
When I say estrogen for hormone therapy, not necessarily. It turned out that I ended up with a pre-cancerous endometrial condition from the cookie-cutter HRT I was prescribed, even though it was a 'natural' form and not the horse-pee stuff. When I got test (saliva test through my naturopath), my estrogen levels were way too high in comparison with my progesterone and the kind of estrogen pills I'd been taking orally were interferring with another hormone channel that was aggravating my fibromyalgia. I wasn't getting enough progesterone to offset the estrogen, mainly because I wasn't able to metabolize it orally (hence, the transdermal creme route). The overall imbalance of progesterone/estrogen ratio was a carcinogen as well as causing anxiety and interferring with thyroid production. I was also very deficient in DHEA and testosterone. The last two really contribute to mood, energy, motivation. So, a compounding pharmacy concocts up a transdermal cream based on what I'm lacking and it's made a huge difference as far as woman-y yuck feelings go. My husband also sees her and has been on natural testosterone therapy and help for a low cortisol condition and it's made a major difference in his energy level, mood and general lustiness (although that's the last thing I've been in the mood for recently - sigh).
As far as seeing an endocrinologist, don't get your hopes up unless they're willing to look outside the box. It's not in the general health provider's education, be they psychiatrists, endocrionologists, gynecologists, how crucial having the right hormone balance is to mental health. We need all those little hormone critters to be in proper supply and balance to even create neurotransmitters! Hormones are the chemical messengers of the entire body and neurotransmitters don't reside only in the brain. If the hormonal system is out of balance (and there are so many more than just the estrogen/progesterone we usually hear about), we simply can't maintain health. It's tragic how ignored this whole field is. Most mainstream docs rely on blood tests but unfortunately, blood tests only show the free circulating hormones, not what's actually getting metabolized in and out of the cells. Therefore, they can't really interpret the results. The mainstream medical community simply does not know how to achieve that balance since it's such a symphony that can't be achieved with their current blunderbuss methods. And thyroid, ohmygod! If that's not functioning at a good hum you are going to feel awful.
The best results I've had in my many years of desperately searching for help has been with my current naturopath who has been researching this hormonal link to depression/fibromyalgia especially. She uses saliva tests to monitor how things are going with my hormones and blood tests where appropriate otherwise. It's a slow process getting things in balance, but without that balance, everything else is a band-aide.
But, one wonders, why are these hormones going so haywire? It's not just change of life stuff but the 40's really start exacerbating things. Actually, the current theory and one that she and I support (from my own research), is that our hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal axis is malfunctioning, and this brain axis controls hormonal balance and general homeostasis. The way it gets that way is probably good old stress in its many manifestations. You've had alot, gal, as have so many of us trying to survive in a world that's really insane. What happens is that the adrenal glands, which are the master stress handlers, cannot handle the burden after a while and become exhausted. This hypoadrenal state causes all kinds of very familiar symptoms, inability to handle stress, fatigue, wired but tired, and then eventually the hypothalamus is actually damaged by the chemicals the poor whipped adrenals are pumping out to keep up with stress control. Cortisol gets depleted and that creates its own set of immune function problems. Adrenal exhaustion is not a household word in most medical clinics, but is a very real condition and one that contributes to probably 90% of the dis-ease we're seeing. There's a book you might want to get: "Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome" by James L. Wilson. He has a website that Google can find for you.
Also, check out http://thyroid.about.com website. There's more information in there about the thyroid than you can imagine, all of it very enlightening. Drs. Richard and Karilee Shames have written a book "Thyroid Power"". They're frequent guests on the thyroid website. Check it out. Very informative. But you have to have patience to navigate the site.
We can take psych meds all we want, but they do eventually poop out because the underlying imbalance isn't addressed. While you're finding out about the metabolic dyfunctions you surely have acquired with all the massive stress in your life, you should probably bolster yourself with something that's going to help your brain chemicals get stabilized. But don't expect the stabilization to last forever without addressing the underlying imbalance. You can only pile up so many band-aids on a wound that isn't healing, you know?
There are so many areas to discover about what your body/mind/spirit need to survive and thrive. When you're starting to get more energy and focus, think of all this as a grand opportunity to embark on an amazing journey of discovery. It's been incredibly fascinating for me to learn all I have because of this disability. One thing that's very important is to drink lots of water. Our cells can't function without proper amount of water. Drink at least half your weight in ounces. So, if you weigh 160 lbs, you should drink 80oz water, about 2.5 quarts a day. Adding a pinch of sea salt to the water helps its permeability. This is so important to do.
Giving SSRI's without mood stabilizers is pretty awful for bipolars, don't you agree? I think lamictal is probably the best one out there, but you may need to take it with another. At least, my experience was that lam by itself was too activating. Again, that pinch of lithium was the ticket. But, dang, that thyroid thing...
Posted by joebob on April 25, 2004, at 10:14:38
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2004, at 14:13:43
start with low potencies and work your way up...
the single dose/high potency approach has some drawbacks these days...
so there are really two approaches in use at the moment...
for us and our homeopath, we prefer the low to high constant dosage approach...
be sure to find the best homeopath you can, and again, if you need your meds take them until you don't need them
best,
joebob
Posted by joebob on April 25, 2004, at 10:16:50
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2004, at 14:13:43
and anectdotal evidence
be sure to use one high in epa vs dha...we use kirunal or metabolic maintenance
Posted by Cyleilo on April 25, 2004, at 13:39:12
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2004, at 14:13:43
Again, many thanks to joebob and BarbaraCat. You've both been very helpful. I took my first 1/2 Lamictal pill today. AAAAAAAHHHHHHH! All signs seem to point that way, the way of trying Lamictal, and even though I'm not convinced and still afraid, I figure I'll give it a try. I've just got to do something. And I'll give homeopathy a try, too, look into hormones, thyroid, etc., once I get a little more energy to be able to pick up the phone and make an appointment. I have been taking fish oil, with a high EPA content, so that's underway. (I was hoping that's all I would have to take as the psychopharmacologist said some people have good success with it. But, it didn't do it for me, hence the looking for other answers.) You've both given a lot of valuable info based on a lot of experience, and I am deeply grateful for your time. I'll keep you posted too, and hope to hear how your "stuff" is going.
I think the hardest part of the last 8 months, when the depression hit so deeply, was coming to accept that I have this disease too, and that it's a biggie, serious, and has to be dealt with in a big way. That's been tough to swallow, but I'm getting it, and starting to find the serenity to accept the things I can not change. Always a tall order! Thank you two for your input, helping me to find the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Posted by ST on April 25, 2004, at 23:46:38
In reply to Re: it is working for me, but it takes time and in the, posted by joebob on April 20, 2004, at 21:36:47
Hi,
I live in LA, and I'd love to find a good homeopath. I have been doing acupuncture for years. You may write to me off board, if you like. Thank you so much!
Sarah
sarah.taylor at prodigy dot net> your biggest problem may be in finding a really good homeopath....there are not that many around
>
> if you are near to l.a. i can give you a refferal
>
> best of luck,
>
> joebob
>
Posted by joebob on April 28, 2004, at 21:42:06
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar?, posted by Cyleilo on April 25, 2004, at 13:39:12
you been taking it?
what kind?
what dose?
Posted by joebob on April 28, 2004, at 21:45:09
In reply to Re: it is working for me, but it takes time and in the, posted by ST on April 25, 2004, at 23:46:38
address
i'm not sure where to send the referral, my guy is in santa monica
send a full address and i'll write you directly
Posted by Cyleilo on April 29, 2004, at 11:10:13
In reply to fish oil takes some time to kick in..how long have, posted by joebob on April 28, 2004, at 21:42:06
I took it for 3 1/2 months, 3 grams (EPA) for the first month, then almost 6 grams (EPA) for the next 2 1/2 months. I took Nordic Naturals gel capsules, and then Dr. Sears liquid, which were both pharmaceutical grade. That dose was under the advice of my psychopharmacologist. I think he explained that people have taken more than that, but there wasn't any significant benefit from more. Have you taken it? If so, how long, what dose? Did it help you? It seems to be a good thing to take anyway, from any health point of view. He said it might help lower my cholesterol - I'll be interested to see if that happens.
Posted by ST on April 29, 2004, at 17:31:43
In reply to sarah....i don't think that's a working e-mail, posted by joebob on April 28, 2004, at 21:45:09
Sorry! I spelled it out like that to avoid auto-spamming.
My email is:
sarah.taylor@prodigy.net
Thank you so much!
Sarah
> address
>
> i'm not sure where to send the referral, my guy is in santa monica
>
> send a full address and i'll write you directly
Posted by joebob on April 30, 2004, at 8:58:37
In reply to Re: fish oil takes some time to kick in..how long have, posted by Cyleilo on April 29, 2004, at 11:10:13
seems to confirm that you must have a ratio of epa to dha greater than or equal to 3 to 1...i use kirunal and metabolic maintenance, check the net....you can get both from 'emerson ecologics'
the epa and dha compete at the transmitter sites and your body has a much better chance of creating dha from epa, rather than the other way around.....do a google...you will see some differences of opionion but i've done what research i can and think the 3 to 1 ration is the way to go
search for dr.david horrobin and dr. m. peet
> I took it for 3 1/2 months, 3 grams (EPA) for the first month, then almost 6 grams (EPA) for the next 2 1/2 months. I took Nordic Naturals gel capsules, and then Dr. Sears liquid, which were both pharmaceutical grade. That dose was under the advice of my psychopharmacologist. I think he explained that people have taken more than that, but there wasn't any significant benefit from more. Have you taken it? If so, how long, what dose? Did it help you? It seems to be a good thing to take anyway, from any health point of view. He said it might help lower my cholesterol - I'll be interested to see if that happens.
Posted by stann on May 11, 2004, at 13:02:07
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar? » Cyleilo, posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2004, at 14:13:43
> I'm glad to be able to lend some support for you during these difficult days. It gets very alone feeling after a while, especially when you've been struggling for so long and others around you depend on you and/or are getting a tad frustrated ('why can't she just snap out of it?'). There's always a sense of weak-will we blame ourselves with, not matter how our rational mind tells us we're really sick and simply don't have the spark to move through the day without being overwhelmed.
>
> When I say estrogen for hormone therapy, not necessarily. It turned out that I ended up with a pre-cancerous endometrial condition from the cookie-cutter HRT I was prescribed, even though it was a 'natural' form and not the horse-pee stuff. When I got test (saliva test through my naturopath), my estrogen levels were way too high in comparison with my progesterone and the kind of estrogen pills I'd been taking orally were interferring with another hormone channel that was aggravating my fibromyalgia. I wasn't getting enough progesterone to offset the estrogen, mainly because I wasn't able to metabolize it orally (hence, the transdermal creme route). The overall imbalance of progesterone/estrogen ratio was a carcinogen as well as causing anxiety and interferring with thyroid production. I was also very deficient in DHEA and testosterone. The last two really contribute to mood, energy, motivation. So, a compounding pharmacy concocts up a transdermal cream based on what I'm lacking and it's made a huge difference as far as woman-y yuck feelings go. My husband also sees her and has been on natural testosterone therapy and help for a low cortisol condition and it's made a major difference in his energy level, mood and general lustiness (although that's the last thing I've been in the mood for recently - sigh).
>
> As far as seeing an endocrinologist, don't get your hopes up unless they're willing to look outside the box. It's not in the general health provider's education, be they psychiatrists, endocrionologists, gynecologists, how crucial having the right hormone balance is to mental health. We need all those little hormone critters to be in proper supply and balance to even create neurotransmitters! Hormones are the chemical messengers of the entire body and neurotransmitters don't reside only in the brain. If the hormonal system is out of balance (and there are so many more than just the estrogen/progesterone we usually hear about), we simply can't maintain health. It's tragic how ignored this whole field is. Most mainstream docs rely on blood tests but unfortunately, blood tests only show the free circulating hormones, not what's actually getting metabolized in and out of the cells. Therefore, they can't really interpret the results. The mainstream medical community simply does not know how to achieve that balance since it's such a symphony that can't be achieved with their current blunderbuss methods. And thyroid, ohmygod! If that's not functioning at a good hum you are going to feel awful.
>
> The best results I've had in my many years of desperately searching for help has been with my current naturopath who has been researching this hormonal link to depression/fibromyalgia especially. She uses saliva tests to monitor how things are going with my hormones and blood tests where appropriate otherwise. It's a slow process getting things in balance, but without that balance, everything else is a band-aide.
>
> But, one wonders, why are these hormones going so haywire? It's not just change of life stuff but the 40's really start exacerbating things. Actually, the current theory and one that she and I support (from my own research), is that our hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal axis is malfunctioning, and this brain axis controls hormonal balance and general homeostasis. The way it gets that way is probably good old stress in its many manifestations. You've had alot, gal, as have so many of us trying to survive in a world that's really insane. What happens is that the adrenal glands, which are the master stress handlers, cannot handle the burden after a while and become exhausted. This hypoadrenal state causes all kinds of very familiar symptoms, inability to handle stress, fatigue, wired but tired, and then eventually the hypothalamus is actually damaged by the chemicals the poor whipped adrenals are pumping out to keep up with stress control. Cortisol gets depleted and that creates its own set of immune function problems. Adrenal exhaustion is not a household word in most medical clinics, but is a very real condition and one that contributes to probably 90% of the dis-ease we're seeing. There's a book you might want to get: "Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome" by James L. Wilson. He has a website that Google can find for you.
>
> Also, check out http://thyroid.about.com website. There's more information in there about the thyroid than you can imagine, all of it very enlightening. Drs. Richard and Karilee Shames have written a book "Thyroid Power"". They're frequent guests on the thyroid website. Check it out. Very informative. But you have to have patience to navigate the site.
>
> We can take psych meds all we want, but they do eventually poop out because the underlying imbalance isn't addressed. While you're finding out about the metabolic dyfunctions you surely have acquired with all the massive stress in your life, you should probably bolster yourself with something that's going to help your brain chemicals get stabilized. But don't expect the stabilization to last forever without addressing the underlying imbalance. You can only pile up so many band-aids on a wound that isn't healing, you know?
>
> There are so many areas to discover about what your body/mind/spirit need to survive and thrive. When you're starting to get more energy and focus, think of all this as a grand opportunity to embark on an amazing journey of discovery. It's been incredibly fascinating for me to learn all I have because of this disability. One thing that's very important is to drink lots of water. Our cells can't function without proper amount of water. Drink at least half your weight in ounces. So, if you weigh 160 lbs, you should drink 80oz water, about 2.5 quarts a day. Adding a pinch of sea salt to the water helps its permeability. This is so important to do.
>
> Giving SSRI's without mood stabilizers is pretty awful for bipolars, don't you agree? I think lamictal is probably the best one out there, but you may need to take it with another. At least, my experience was that lam by itself was too activating. Again, that pinch of lithium was the ticket. But, dang, that thyroid thing...Hi, I am wondering wait natural testosterone your husband is taking. I am using androderm and would like to find a natural testosterone therapy.
Thank you....
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2004, at 17:28:38
In reply to Re: Does Homeopathy Work for Bipolar?, posted by stann on May 11, 2004, at 13:02:07
> Hi, I am wondering wait natural testosterone your husband is taking. I am using androderm and would like to find a natural testosterone therapy.
>
**Testosterone cypionate 200mg injection every 2 weeks, prescribed by naturopath and filled by compounding pharmacy. It's in an oil base so the injection is absorbed slowly. He felt a positive effect at around month 4 - more energy, better mood and motivation, more consistent woodies ;-). It's slower ramping than the androderm patch or gel, but he was not happy with the way these made him feel.Women's International Pharmacy (800-279-5708) is a good source of info and can give you more details about the naturalness vs. the synthetic androderm form.
Posted by stann on May 11, 2004, at 23:00:24
In reply to Testosterone info » stann, posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2004, at 17:28:38
> > Hi, I am wondering wait natural testosterone your husband is taking. I am using androderm and would like to find a natural testosterone therapy.
> >
> **Testosterone cypionate 200mg injection every 2 weeks, prescribed by naturopath and filled by compounding pharmacy. It's in an oil base so the injection is absorbed slowly. He felt a positive effect at around month 4 - more energy, better mood and motivation, more consistent woodies ;-). It's slower ramping than the androderm patch or gel, but he was not happy with the way these made him feel.
>
> Women's International Pharmacy (800-279-5708) is a good source of info and can give you more details about the naturalness vs. the synthetic androderm form.
Thanks for the quick reply.I did not know an ND could precribe an injection. I have an ND and asked him about T therapy and he could not help me out. Perhaps Canadian NDs have different rules to follow. I am thinking of trying T therapy injections but am worried I might have a bad mentle reaction to it. I had a bad mentle reaction to andriol. I suffer from anxiety and depression and some how the andriol made it worse.
Thanks again.....
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2004, at 18:26:33
In reply to Re: Testosterone info, posted by stann on May 11, 2004, at 23:00:24
> >I did not know an ND could precribe an injection.**My naturopath works in a health clinic with an MD. I don't know if US naturopaths can prescribe injections either. You can try using a daily cream - see below.
I had a bad mentle reaction to andriol. I suffer from anxiety and depression and some how the andriol made it worse.
**I heard the synthetic form can do that. I also have anxiety and depression. I use a cream prescribed by the naturopath and formulated in a compounding pharmacy that contains testosterone as part of my menopausal hormonal program. I just got my test results today and found out that my tesosterone levels were a little high. I don't think it worsened my anxiety and depression but I have been feeling irritable and angry recently and it could be due to the extra testos. Of course, with all the government bullcrap in this country I'm not surprised I've been feeling reallllllly pissed off.
Posted by stann on May 12, 2004, at 22:19:02
In reply to Re: Testosterone info » stann, posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2004, at 18:26:33
>
> > >I did not know an ND could precribe an injection.
>
> **My naturopath works in a health clinic with an MD. I don't know if US naturopaths can prescribe injections either. You can try using a daily cream - see below.
>
> I had a bad mentle reaction to andriol. I suffer from anxiety and depression and some how the andriol made it worse.
>
> **I heard the synthetic form can do that. I also have anxiety and depression. I use a cream prescribed by the naturopath and formulated in a compounding pharmacy that contains testosterone as part of my menopausal hormonal program. I just got my test results today and found out that my tesosterone levels were a little high. I don't think it worsened my anxiety and depression but I have been feeling irritable and angry recently and it could be due to the extra testos. Of course, with all the government bullcrap in this country I'm not surprised I've been feeling reallllllly pissed off.Does the cream contain synthetic testosterone or a natural form. Are you aware of any other natural forms to get T??
My urologist said a man can not have to much T in his system. When I had my reaction to andriol my T levels were very high. It caused me to have a lot of suicidal thoughts.Very scary!!
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2004, at 13:48:39
In reply to Re: Testosterone info, posted by stann on May 12, 2004, at 22:19:02
> Does the cream contain synthetic testosterone or a natural form.
**I don't know if it's the same testosterone cypionate as in the injectable but it is a natural form. There are probably other forms of natural T but I'm not up on the specifics.
>>Are you aware of any other natural forms to get T??
**DHEA is a precursor to testosterone but it's also a precursor to estrogen. Depending on the levels of other hormones in your body, you can get unwanted effects.
> My urologist said a man can not have to much T in his system.
**That's absolutely not true!! Perhaps you misunderstood? Too much can cause aggression, anxiety, acne, prostate cancer, excess body hair, head baldness.
>>When I had my reaction to andriol my T levels were very high. It caused me to have a lot of suicidal thoughts.Very scary!!
**If your levels were high already, it's no wonder. Maybe you don't need to supplement if you've already got too much? Hormones are a tricky business to get everything working together just right. If one starts predominating it can cause a whole cascade of imbalances.
You might want to get your basline levels through some testing. Saliva tests seem to be more accurate than blood tests, and measure the whole hormonal picture instead of just one. Most mainstream docs, especially urologists, don't know about or believe in saliva testing so you probably won't get much support there.
You can order saliva tests without going through a doctor from ZRT labs, which is the lab my naturopath uses. There's alot of good info on the website and you can probably contact them for more. Here's the website:
Posted by stann on May 13, 2004, at 23:42:13
In reply to Re: Testosterone info » stann, posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2004, at 13:48:39
> > Does the cream contain synthetic testosterone or a natural form.
>
> **I don't know if it's the same testosterone cypionate as in the injectable but it is a natural form. There are probably other forms of natural T but I'm not up on the specifics.
>
> >>Are you aware of any other natural forms to get T??
>
> **DHEA is a precursor to testosterone but it's also a precursor to estrogen. Depending on the levels of other hormones in your body, you can get unwanted effects.
>
> > My urologist said a man can not have to much T in his system.
>
> **That's absolutely not true!! Perhaps you misunderstood? Too much can cause aggression, anxiety, acne, prostate cancer, excess body hair, head baldness.
>
> >>When I had my reaction to andriol my T levels were very high. It caused me to have a lot of suicidal thoughts.Very scary!!
>
> **If your levels were high already, it's no wonder. Maybe you don't need to supplement if you've already got too much? Hormones are a tricky business to get everything working together just right. If one starts predominating it can cause a whole cascade of imbalances.
>
> You might want to get your basline levels through some testing. Saliva tests seem to be more accurate than blood tests, and measure the whole hormonal picture instead of just one. Most mainstream docs, especially urologists, don't know about or believe in saliva testing so you probably won't get much support there.
>
> You can order saliva tests without going through a doctor from ZRT labs, which is the lab my naturopath uses. There's alot of good info on the website and you can probably contact them for more. Here's the website:
>
> http://www.salivatest.com/Thanks for the info,
When I had my original T test it was very low and between different treatments my t levels came back very low. I am 40 years old and my doc said this was unusual for a man my age. I thought it might have been caused by all the ssri antidepressants I had been taking but my doc said not likly. I have read that ssri's can cause T levels to lower. I am not on an ssri at this time so I might stop the patch an see if my T will return to normal.By the way, it is my free flowing T that shows up the lowest.
Thanks again......
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2004, at 17:42:18
In reply to Re: Testosterone info, posted by stann on May 13, 2004, at 23:42:13
> When I had my original T test it was very low and between different treatments my t levels came back very low. I am 40 years old and my doc said this was unusual for a man my age. I thought it might have been caused by all the ssri antidepressants I had been taking but my doc said not likly. I have read that ssri's can cause T levels to lower.
**What you are saying is very interesting because this is what happened to my husband. He went through a very stressful period at work and became very depressed. For about 1.5 years he was taking Zoloft. He was OK while taking it but once he stopped he became very depleted and started having sexual dysfunction. He went to a urologist and tested at extremely low levels of T and went on the patch. He was in his early 40's at the time and we both felt it was too young for this kind of thing. He always felt the SSRI was what affected him, but we could never find any info on this. So I'm grateful (as I'm sure he will be) that someone else has had similar suspicions with SSRI's.
BTW, just to let you know the outcome, he went off the patch and wasn't on any hormone therapy until recently getting the natural hormones. During this time, I could sense that his testosterone level was still low. His sexual functioning, energy level and motivation were all low. Sure enough, his test through the naturopath showed low testosterone, but not only that, his estrogen levels were very raised!! Not good for a guy thing, but also the risk of cancer. The naturopath says it's rare for only one hormone to be out of balance. His cortisol was real low too and cortisol is important in hormone production, so he's taking stuff for balancing his adrenal function as well.
Even though it's been a slow ramp-up he's feeling and looking 100% better and feels like things are stable. The urologist only focused on testosterone and not the big picture. He used a powerful synthetic med that worked faster but caused alot of problems.
I hope you pursue this get things in sync. Hormonal dysfunction is at the root of so many of our mood disorders. Just ask any woman (or her partner) about PMS! Standard blood tests only measure the free hormone instead of what is being taken up cellularly and don't provide much useful info, so maybe you'll look into saliva testing. Take care and good luck, and let me know how things go. - BarbaraCat
Posted by stann on May 17, 2004, at 12:40:29
In reply to Re: Testosterone info » stann, posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2004, at 17:42:18
> > When I had my original T test it was very low and between different treatments my t levels came back very low. I am 40 years old and my doc said this was unusual for a man my age. I thought it might have been caused by all the ssri antidepressants I had been taking but my doc said not likly. I have read that ssri's can cause T levels to lower.
>
> **What you are saying is very interesting because this is what happened to my husband. He went through a very stressful period at work and became very depressed. For about 1.5 years he was taking Zoloft. He was OK while taking it but once he stopped he became very depleted and started having sexual dysfunction. He went to a urologist and tested at extremely low levels of T and went on the patch. He was in his early 40's at the time and we both felt it was too young for this kind of thing. He always felt the SSRI was what affected him, but we could never find any info on this. So I'm grateful (as I'm sure he will be) that someone else has had similar suspicions with SSRI's.
>
> BTW, just to let you know the outcome, he went off the patch and wasn't on any hormone therapy until recently getting the natural hormones. During this time, I could sense that his testosterone level was still low. His sexual functioning, energy level and motivation were all low. Sure enough, his test through the naturopath showed low testosterone, but not only that, his estrogen levels were very raised!! Not good for a guy thing, but also the risk of cancer. The naturopath says it's rare for only one hormone to be out of balance. His cortisol was real low too and cortisol is important in hormone production, so he's taking stuff for balancing his adrenal function as well.
>
> Even though it's been a slow ramp-up he's feeling and looking 100% better and feels like things are stable. The urologist only focused on testosterone and not the big picture. He used a powerful synthetic med that worked faster but caused alot of problems.
>
> I hope you pursue this get things in sync. Hormonal dysfunction is at the root of so many of our mood disorders. Just ask any woman (or her partner) about PMS! Standard blood tests only measure the free hormone instead of what is being taken up cellularly and don't provide much useful info, so maybe you'll look into saliva testing. Take care and good luck, and let me know how things go. - BarbaraCat
Hi again, I am glad you found satisfaction from my post. Your husband is not alone.SSRI's and low T levels seems to be fairly common, according to the reading I have done on this problem.If you do a google search, type in (SSRI low testosterone)and a fair bite of reading will be found.Wondering if your husband had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning? This is a big problem for me. Also, I feel very tired all the time. Thanks again..... OH yeah, what was it that he did not like about the patch??
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2004, at 16:10:06
In reply to Re: Testosterone info, posted by stann on May 17, 2004, at 12:40:29
> Wondering if your husband had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning? This is a big problem for me. Also, I feel very tired all the time. Thanks again..... OH yeah, what was it that he did not like about the patch??
>
**He said he did have a hard getting out of bed in the morning, and he's usually a real morning person (unlike moi). But he also had his cortisol levels tested and they were real low and that can contribute to morning tiredness as well (as well as not allowing a stable testosterone level). Have you gotten your thyroid tested?He didn't like the patch because of the hassle. It made him itch in the patch area, he was getting headaches and it just wasn't working very well. But he didn't know about the cortisol thing at the time either. Taking a natural cortisone supplement has been a big part of his regimen but it was important to find out where he was at cause too high or too low is just as bad.
Posted by stann on May 18, 2004, at 23:13:15
In reply to Re: Testosterone info » stann, posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2004, at 16:10:06
> > Wondering if your husband had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning? This is a big problem for me. Also, I feel very tired all the time. Thanks again..... OH yeah, what was it that he did not like about the patch??
> >
> **He said he did have a hard getting out of bed in the morning, and he's usually a real morning person (unlike moi). But he also had his cortisol levels tested and they were real low and that can contribute to morning tiredness as well (as well as not allowing a stable testosterone level). Have you gotten your thyroid tested?
>
> He didn't like the patch because of the hassle. It made him itch in the patch area, he was getting headaches and it just wasn't working very well. But he didn't know about the cortisol thing at the time either. Taking a natural cortisone supplement has been a big part of his regimen but it was important to find out where he was at cause too high or too low is just as bad.
Yes,I just had my thyroid checked and it was fine.Most of the time my thyroid is borderline hyper, but since I started lithium it has come up a few notches. Since I stopped using the T patch I have found I am feeling a little better, also it has been almost two months since I stopped the SSRI. Perhaps my T levels are rising on their own now that the SSRI is out of my system. My next blood work will answer that question. On top of the patch causing me more fatigue and tiredness, it was always falling off.Take care......
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