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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 5:04:14
I was reading a bunch of the old posts re: NADH, esp. between Larry Hoover and Ron Hill, and at first there was raving about how wonderful it was and the next thing you know Ron is trying to get rid of his whole stash! What happened? Has anyone else had any experience with NADH?
Thanks.
Posted by Ron Hill on January 5, 2004, at 13:26:09
In reply to NADH -- what are your experiences?, posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 5:04:14
Hi Psychlover
> I was reading a bunch of the old posts re: NADH, esp. between Larry Hoover and Ron Hill, and at first there was raving about how wonderful it was and the next thing you know Ron is trying to get rid of his whole stash! What happened? Has anyone else had any experience with NADH?
For about eight months, ENADA NADH did a good job in treating my bipolar II atypical depression (low motivation, anergy, hypersomnia, loss of enjoyment of life, etc). I'm convinced that the antidepressive effect was due to ENADA NADH increasing my dopamine levels.
Unfortunately, ENADA NADH caused irritability which became worse as the trial progressed. In an attempt to eliminate the irritability side effect, I continually reduced the dosage and five months into the trial I was taking only one 2.5 mg tablet per week. Finally, at about the eight month mark, it became apparent that I needed to completely quit the supplement because of the irritability.
As an aside, I had a very similar response to SAM-e. It worked great for about five months and then turned me into an irritable raging maniac (GRRRRRR!!).
Right now I'm doing very well. I hope it continues. Here is my current cocktail:
300 mg/day Lithobid (moodstabilizer).
300 mg/day St. John’s Wort (provides some good antidepressant effectiveness).
L-theanine (increases dopamine and GABA, reduces cortisol; treats irritability). Currently, I take 200 mg of l-theanine PRN (as needed) to treat irritability. Lately, I have not needed to take it very often. But when I do, it calms my irritability for about five hours. Until a couple of weeks ago, I had been taking 400 mg/day of l-theanine for about seven weeks. However, I fell into a deep depressive episode, and I decided to err on the side of caution and reduce my dosage of l-theanine because some research indicates that it can reduce serotonin levels. I don’t know for fact that l-theanine contributed to my depressive episode. Perhaps I was just cycling (bipolar II).
250 mg/day of TMG.
Small pocket-full of vitamins and minerals per day (most notably, 800 mg/day of magnesium taken at bedtime to improve sleep and overall brain functioning).
Three teaspoons of Carlson’s Fish Oil per day.
Exercise (1 – 2 hours/day; reduces depression and irritability but can increase hypomania, thereby, requiring a temporary increase in the amount of moodstabilizer).
NO REFINED SUGAR!!
No alcohol (and no recreational drugs since the 70's).
Zone diet.
Best Wishes!-- Ron
Posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 15:03:56
In reply to Re: NADH -- what are your experiences? » psychlover, posted by Ron Hill on January 5, 2004, at 13:26:09
Wow, Ron, it sounds like you are really taking good care of yourself, what with the vitamins, minerals, supplements, exercise, and diet. Good for you! Keep up the good work.
Three follow-up questions for you:
1. I know you said L-theanine can reduce serotonin. Do you know how many cups of green tea = how much L-theanine? I want to know if drinking too much green tea will lower by serotonin.
2. How is the St. John's Wort working for you? What brand/dosage do you use? How does it compare to prescription antidepressants?
3. What time of day do you take the TMG and have you noticed any effects from it? I guess it might be hard to single out given your regimen.
Thanks! All the best!
-psychlover
Posted by Ron Hill on January 5, 2004, at 17:19:44
In reply to Re: NADH -- what are your experiences? » Ron Hill, posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 15:03:56
Psychlover,
> Wow, Ron, it sounds like you are really taking good care of yourself, what with the vitamins, minerals, supplements, exercise, and diet. Good for you! Keep up the good work.
Thanks.
> Three follow-up questions for you:> 1. I know you said L-theanine can reduce serotonin.
No, actually I'm not sure that l-theanine reduces serotonin. The research is conflicted. For example, see please see the 18th paragraph (if I counted correctly) of the following article:
http://www.lifelinknet.com/siteResources/ArchivePages/fn27
> Do you know how many cups of green tea = how much L-theanine? I want to know if drinking too much green tea will lower by serotonin.
If I recall correctly 8 – 10 cups of green tea contain about 100 mg, however, I’d have to look it up to be sure. I drink 4 - 8 cups of green tea per day and I'm of the opinion that green tea does not adversely affect serotonin pathways. But that's just my opinion.
> 2. How is the St. John's Wort working for you? What brand/dosage do you use? How does it compare to prescription antidepressants?St. John’s Wort feels good in my brain. I currently take 300 mg/day of Kira brand (Lichtwer Pharma) which is substantially less than the typical dosage of 900 mg/day. Based on Larry Hoover’s recommendation (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031204/msgs/288621.html ), I may buy a brand called Perika when I run out of my current supply. As a bipolar II patient, I have not done well on perscription antidepressants (although I’ve not tried MAOIs which might work for me). The SSRI’s and SNRI all leave me with SSRI Apathy (dopamine pathway disturbances). My layman’s opinion is that St John’s helps me (so far) because is elevates the levels of several neurotransmitters via various methods instead of being selective in action.
> 3. What time of day do you take the TMG and have you noticed any effects from it? I guess it might be hard to single out given your regimen.
I take it after breakfast along with the majority of my other vitamins and minerals. I stopped taking it for a while and I could feel a slight yet beneficial antidepressant effect when I added it back into the mix.
-- Ron
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