![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kath on November 8, 2009, at 10:02:47
I haven't been coming to PB as much as I used to. Just checked today & am shocked to see the very small number of posts on Social & Admin. compared to before all this buttons situation (I was going to say 'fiasco' but didn't know if that would be considered uncivil, although I don't think it is, given the # of people who have obviously been upset about it).
It saddens me.
I don't even know if people woud come back if you removed the 'buttons'. Might be something for you to consider.
K
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 10:38:38
In reply to Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on November 8, 2009, at 10:02:47
There's an echo even meds is empty in comparison to before. Love Phillipa
Posted by Kath on November 8, 2009, at 10:42:14
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » Kath, posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 10:38:38
Pretty empty around here!!!
I am wondering if Dr. Bob cares?
Maybe he thinks that all the tweets etc will pull in new people & so who cares if the 'old' ones leave??Pretty darned 'echoey' around here!
K
Posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2009, at 17:43:56
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » Phillipa, posted by Kath on November 8, 2009, at 10:42:14
I don't think it is about the buttons, per se, but the way they were implemented.
If he had notified posters of his idea, let us hash it out, understand it, come up with the Opt Out option, etc. - SO much stress and hurt could have been avoided.
He KNEW this Twitter/FB change would upset people, but his surprise implementation made it appear that he did not care.
I've yet to see him say that he won't implement changes in the future w/o notifying posters ahead of time. Perhaps he did and I missed it?
Bay
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:17:24
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » Kath, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2009, at 17:43:56
Seems a lot have already left. When I see links to articles posted on psych central. Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on November 8, 2009, at 20:45:48
In reply to Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on November 8, 2009, at 10:02:47
It's been going on for years.
It's not just the buttons.
Fundamentally, it's the blocks, because it's through them that so many interesting people left, and that affects everything.
The idea that you can fix this through connections to Twitter and Facebook is just silly.
Posted by Kath on November 9, 2009, at 10:39:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by Sigismund on November 8, 2009, at 20:45:48
Good points all.
Seems like it's the straw that broke the camel's back.
K
Posted by muffled on November 9, 2009, at 14:21:51
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on November 9, 2009, at 10:39:57
Yes, the points above are why.
Its been said by me and others in various threads.
Bobs disregard, or inability to understand people here has been going on and on for YEARS. But we had such a great community, so we stayed despite Bob. We tored really hard to make Bob able to understand.
He never did.
Then ya, like Kath said, this was it, the last straw for many (I'd already pretty much gone).
Such blatant lack of communication, such blatant disrgard for long time posters concerns.
Yeah, its been said B4....
But anyways, like someone said, its not the buttons per se.
Its the whole fiasco is representative of how we have been treated ALL ALONG.
Its too bad. It really is.
But we can find each other elsewhere, find new friends too. It'll be OK.
Take care all.
I hope Bob can find something other to do than run a website....I don't think this is his strong point.....
Technically, as far as how it runs in a computer sense GREAT!!! But interpersonally....it SUCKS.
Sorry Bob, just calling a spade a spade, and hoping gagainst hope that THIS time you will clue in, and maybe do something different than trying to run a website. ITS JUST NOT WORKING. You are HURTING people DO YOU NOT SEE THIS???? I thot you wanted to help.......
Whatever.
Posted by TexasChic on November 9, 2009, at 18:52:16
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on November 9, 2009, at 10:39:57
I could be totally wrong, but I think things like Facebook and Twitter have just become more popular lately (or at least maybe that's part of it). I know I now post things on Facebook that I would have posted here in the past. Its not the same, I don't feel comfortable posting my mental health issues there, but I do find myself posting the random 'social' stuff I used to post here.
However, now that the newness of FB is wearing off for me, I find myself lurking here more and more. I have to say though, all the complaints about it being 'dead' makes it kind of intimidating to post. I'm like, okay, is what I want to post enough to be considered not dead? I don't know if this makes sense, but all I'm saying is a friendlier vibe just might attract more posters.
Like I said, I may be wrong, this is just my two cents - something to think about.
-T
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2009, at 19:38:11
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by TexasChic on November 9, 2009, at 18:52:16
The only way for it to stop being dead is for those who feel comfortable to post.
I don't want to see Babble die. I've tried to start a post, but haven't been able to. I've responded to the posts of others.
If enough people feel able to start posts, maybe enough people will feel able to reply and trust may slowly be rebuilt. If nothing happens to shake it.
Posted by muffled on November 9, 2009, at 20:30:41
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2009, at 19:38:11
> The only way for it to stop being dead is for those who feel comfortable to post.
*yes, if your comfortable having your posts forever archived( and fully googlable) available to anyone, then post.
If your all right with a website that is run by someone who doesn't pay any heed to posters concerns, then go ahead and post.
If your all right with a website that banishes others for chunks of time for pretty minor offences, for confusing rules noone actually fully understands, then go ahead and post.
If your into allowing adminstration to repeatedly abuses your trust that they have your best interests at heart, then go ahead and post.
If you like an adminstration that comes and goes on a whim(sometimes mysteriously dissapearing for months at a time), then post here.
If you like a site where noone will be deputy becuase the admin doesn't back them up or listen to them, and in fact totally bailed on them for chunks of time with no word, then post here.
If your into being on a very wide open, easily searchable, not very private, ever changing 'community' where to be safe, communications need to be pretty darn careful, then go ahead and post.
******BUT*******
If you want to be safe, don't post here.
If you want a more intimate community, then don't post here.
If you want to be able to talk a bit more openly, don't post here.
If you want more consistant caring adminstration, don't post here.
If you don't want your trust abused, don't post here.
Me, I am here only becuase, you know what? I AM angry. I am very angry with how Bob has treated people here.
I am not good at allowing people very close. I did so here. And they were so kind to me. I was safe with the community, but not with Bob, so I had to leave.
Now I see people falling into the same repetative pattern as I was in. Of SO wishing to be able to trust Bob, to be so hoping that THIS time it would be different....but it never was, and STILL ISN'T.
Its like watching someone in an abusive relationship going back to their abusive partner.
HE HAS NOT CHANGED.
If you are not bothered by Bobs behaviour, then STAY!!!! but if you are, AT ALL, then GET OUT. He will do the same bloody thing again.
I am angry and dismayed that people seem not to recognize his behaviour for what it is.
At some point I am just going to have to walk away from this beacause it is very upsetting to me. Its just I am not one to walk away w/o some sort of a fight from what I see as wrongdoing, and to not make some attempt to stop abuse, or at least make it known, so that others can have their eyes open
> I don't want to see Babble die. I've tried to start a post, but haven't been able to. I've responded to the posts of others.*Its SO HARD to walk away Dinah :( But you know it will just be the same :(
> If enough people feel able to start posts, maybe enough people will feel able to reply and trust may slowly be rebuilt. If nothing happens to shake it.*"if nothing happens to shake it"- but it will. Always has. Bob still doesn't understand what we are trying to tell him.
It is not safe here, if a caring, safe, connected, confiding community is what your looking for...
this is NOT the place.
I don't think Bob is miraculously going to change, hasn't up to this point in time. He still doesn't understand.
HE JUST TRAMPLED on us here. Made NO consideration as to what we might feel.
And when we did express discomfort, did he acknowledge and slow down and consider us??? NO! Just barged ahead full steam.
After the fact he tries to clean up.
Thats b*llsh*t.
Yeah, I am mad.
I don't like seeing my friends treated like stupid brainless people that have no value or valued opinion.
I don't like seeing friends who try and help a guy, who did ALOT to help a guy, and he treated them bad. Talked to them when it suited HIM. Dissapeared w/o a word. Didn't heed what they had to say.
Ya I AM mad.
And Ya I'll proly get blocked and perhaps this is just as well.
Cuz I am NOT one to bash people. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Almost too much.
Well I gave Bob the benfit of the doubt, over and over.
And I still think he is not evil, but just misguided.
Though I must admit, I used to like to think he cared.....but after this last thing....I have now finally accepted that....sadly...I don't think he does, not really. He COULDN'T and do what he has done.
Its sad.
I wish Bob well in what he does.
But I am not sure he should be administering a website, esp a mental health one, when he is so inconsistantly there, and when he doesn't even follow the basic rules(what Deneb found) about how to take care of your community.
I didn't used to want to see babble die, cuz it meant so much to me.
But now, sadly, I kinda wished it would, so that others don't have to go thru this cycle.
The only way I can see babble continuing, in some better safety, is for Bob to make some of the suggested changes, but MOSTLY, for Bob to turn the administration *fully* over to someone OTHER than himself. Someone who will ACTUALLY listen, someone who will work WITH the deputies as a team, someone who will be here more consistantly, someone who has more people skills.
Let Bob just do the computer geek stuff- with permission/ acceptance of the deputies/new administrator.
My thots.
I really hope people will listen to reality here...
Don't invest too much here, cuz admin will SEEM to listen, but he doesn't, not really. Just does what he wants.
Be safe, post VERY carefully.
M
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2009, at 7:43:02
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on November 9, 2009, at 20:30:41
But a lot of people don't care about some or all of those things. Most of them don't bother me overmuch. If not for google, I'd have never found Babble. I always liked the civility rules. Etc.
Whatever decision each of us makes for ourselves, I think it's just as important to respect the decisions others make, once they have the information. Some people didn't mind the icons. Others were satisfied when he removed them.
For those who feel that way, posting again seems logical. I have no wish to see Babble die. I love Babble. I hope that those who wish to post do post.
For me, it didn't seem too much to ask for some understanding of why posters were upset, and some assurance that changes that affect the individual posts of posters wouldn't be implemented without discussion and consideration of the concerns of present posters. But perhaps for Dr. Bob it is a lot to ask. So I like everyone have to make my own decisions about what feels comfortable for me. I hope that whatever I decide others will respect that decision as much as I respect the decisions others make.
Posted by muffled on November 10, 2009, at 9:34:29
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2009, at 7:43:02
Posted by 10derHeart on November 10, 2009, at 9:44:14
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2009, at 7:43:02
Posted by muffled on November 10, 2009, at 10:00:44
In reply to Agree 100% (nm) » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on November 10, 2009, at 9:44:14
It was my last gasp.
I allus have to feel I at least tried.
Goto go.
Way too weird Bobs influence.
I do not understand people putting themselves at risk.
I got parts that protect me from people being bad to me.
I am lucky.
Can't hack it though, because we have to pay for it.
Its the rules internally.
Like a price to pay for peace.
Damn internal rules.
I know they don't make sense.
I see T today and she good to say not to hurt the others inside.
Not to hurt the body.
Mostly we listen to her so it will be OK.
Not safe here.
We won't let her be back.
I am alien.
I go now.
We can't stand to see others hurt w/o helping.
I don't like paying for it.
The scars scare my kid.
So yes, we are gone.
Bye.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2009, at 14:22:37
In reply to FWIW, posted by muffled on November 10, 2009, at 10:00:44
Take care of you, all of you, and definitely don't hurt the body.
I understand the impulse to try to protect others. And I understand feeling so strongly about it.
But in the end, there's only so much we can do, because everyone is different and has different perceptions and different risk tolerances and different priorities. What hurts you most may hurt others, but maybe not be the most hurtful thing to them.
It's hard. And sometimes it is best to at least step back. I hope to see you in chat at least.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 11:43:48
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on November 9, 2009, at 20:30:41
> I don't think it is about the buttons, per se, but the way they were implemented.
>
> If he had notified posters of his idea, let us hash it out, understand it, come up with the Opt Out option, etc. - SO much stress and hurt could have been avoided.
>
> I've yet to see him say that he won't implement changes in the future w/o notifying posters ahead of time. Perhaps he did and I missed it?
>
> Bay> I have to say though, all the complaints about it being 'dead' makes it kind of intimidating to post. ... I don't know if this makes sense, but all I'm saying is a friendlier vibe just might attract more posters.
>
> -TexasChic> The only way for it to stop being dead is for those who feel comfortable to post.
>
> If enough people feel able to start posts, maybe enough people will feel able to reply and trust may slowly be rebuilt. If nothing happens to shake it.
>
> Dinah> yes, if your comfortable having your posts forever archived( and fully googlable) available to anyone, then post.
>
> If your all right with a website that banishes others for chunks of time ... then go ahead and post.
>
> If you like an adminstration that comes and goes on a whim(sometimes mysteriously dissapearing for months at a time), then post here.
>
> If your into being on a very wide open, easily searchable, not very private, ever changing 'community' where to be safe, communications need to be pretty darn careful, then go ahead and post.
>
> I am not good at allowing people very close. I did so here. And they were so kind to me. I was safe with the community, but not with Bob, so I had to leave.
> Now I see people falling into the same repetative pattern as I was in. Of SO wishing to be able to trust Bob, to be so hoping that THIS time it would be different....but it never was, and STILL ISN'T.
>
> he doesn't even follow the basic rules(what Deneb found) about how to take care of your community.
>
> muffledI did move ahead without enough discussion, and I apologize for that. I'm committed to discussing changes in advance, and usually do (and am regarding editing after submission), but I can't promise I won't slip up again.
I agree with TexasChic, a more positive vibe would attract more posters. But I also agree with Dinah and muffled, posters need to feel comfortable with, or at least accept, how things work here.
Speaking of disappearing, one of those guidelines for community managers was:
> Put yourself in the shoes of your members. Would you want to return tomorrow?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090813/msgs/922618.html
You all may wish for things to be different and sometimes have to leave. Maybe I've been in those shoes, too.
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 17, 2009, at 12:22:30
In reply to Re: the vibe, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 11:43:48
Lordalmighty,
Bob.
I find you THE most curious mix????
My scientist side is FASCINATED.
My head hurts.
My heart does too.
Though we dunno why?
MPS We grew up in a family of primarily females(including the dog!). So we find males curious at best. We are trying to better understand males in general. Just so you do not think you are some freakish curiousity. Its got alot to do w/our 'stuff'.
We are suspicious of males.
LOL, ironically now we live with more males than females!
Go figger huh?
M
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2009, at 14:00:38
In reply to Re: the vibe, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 11:43:48
> Speaking of disappearing, one of those guidelines for community managers was:
>
> > Put yourself in the shoes of your members. Would you want to return tomorrow?
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090813/msgs/922618.html
>
> You all may wish for things to be different and sometimes have to leave. Maybe I've been in those shoes, too.
>
> BobWould you like to say more about that?
:)
I'm afraid I'm a bit dense. Are you saying you wish for things on Babble to be different, and sometimes feel the need to disappear because they aren't?
Or are you speaking of having that experience elsewhere?
I'd like to understand. Really I would.
Dinah
This is the end of the thread.
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