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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 52 to 76 of 86. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 6:55:34
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by AbbieNormal on July 19, 2008, at 6:37:38
> > from disengagement...it's a natural survival mechanism
> > to give up trying to engage
>
> Agreed. I think people have backed off and disappeared over the years for emotional protection. I've been hurt, seen others hurt too many times. For me, in the end the benefits have not out wieghed the harm.
>
> The rules put babble on the endangered species list long ago.
>
> Abbie
>
>
> Abbie,
You wrote,[...The rules...long ago...]
Could you elaborate on that? If you could, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 19, 2008, at 7:31:44
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 18, 2008, at 15:37:39
I have invested enough emotional energy and certainly TIME to wish babble to continue. I understand that any community evolves over time, but I have an uneasy sense that things are slowly winding down here in babble land.
Maybe something that we could try harder at is providing newcomers with the information and support that will encourage them to return to check their replies and give us updates; perhaps they will even choose to get involved in others' threads.
Posted by sdb on July 19, 2008, at 12:55:10
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 19, 2008, at 7:31:44
hmm i didn't follow what is going on here. probably babble needs a synchronized cardioversion. the problem for me is that I see many people having much more knowledge than I have, especially concerning personal experience. My data is actually only on an experimental basis and from what I see sometimes.
that dr.bob needs a break from time to time is fully understandable for me. i guess that in real life he treats patients plus he's probably having something else.
i wish everyone well
Posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 13:43:34
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by AbbieNormal on July 19, 2008, at 6:37:38
[opinion alert] I totally agree with those who say that arbitrary rules (which create a Parent/Child atmosphere), have killed natural relationships and communication. It's stifling, squelching, and utterly un-authentic.
I left a long time ago -- this was my first-ever online community, and I thought this was just the way it was ('course, I was then in an uber-controlling church, so I was under many delusions at the time).
I discovered that this is NOT the way that most forums function -- where there is freedom, mutual resepct, and where each one is considered to having something of value to be shared, the sharing happens freely. Sure, there can be moderators ("deputies" sounds far too punitive to me, being associated with "sherrifs" and those who enforce the Law, by force if necessary), who can kindly and relationally remind others of the basics (like, treat others the way you want to be treated).
The more people are constrained by rules, the less free they are. When each one is responsible to self-regulate, it happens ... rather uncanny, but real.
When the general expectation is that people will operate out of good-will, folks generally rise to meet that expectation... again, uncanny, and beautiful to experience.
I only returned to help out a friend here ... it saddens me to see so many people here walking on eggshells, and only experiencing a sense of pseudo-community. How can people share from their hearts, and learn how to do so in a way that's considerate of others, if they're censored, squelched, and reprimanded during the learning process?
Sigh... controlling environments do damage. May we each find a place in which to share our hearts, be heard, be understood, be accepted, and to do the same for others -- guided by inner good-will, rather than by external restrictions.
If honest relationships are built, healthy boundaries are natural, and rules are unnecessary.
But rules will never foster honest relationships... only a hierarchy.[/end of opinion alert]
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by fayeroe on July 19, 2008, at 15:28:35
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup » AbbieNormal, posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 13:43:34
I've been on a forum where "moderators" are helping out and I agree that "deputies" has the ring of "law enforcement" to me.
Not that I am put off by law officers but I am uncomfortable around people who monitor my thoughts and feelings and give me PBCs when sometimes I don't even know how I was "uncivil".
I've already had a mother who pretty much governed how I expressed my thoughts and feelings and it wasn't all that much fun.
Good post, Dena
Pat
Posted by Zeba on July 19, 2008, at 18:19:33
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup » AbbieNormal, posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 13:43:34
Very well said, Dena. I only post about meds anymore as I don't feel comfortable anymore posting about other things like therapy. I hardly looke at babble anymore, and I used to be pretty active under another name. But I have lost my incentive to post about it. It just seems too personal anymore.
Zeba
Posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 19:20:46
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup » Dena, posted by Zeba on July 19, 2008, at 18:19:33
Thanks, Pat & Zeba... I say it like I see it.
It's a shame, because this forum has so much potential... and I wonder, is it because many of us have had mental/emotional/psychological issues...? Are we treated as 'children' because of our struggles?
I see that everyone on the planet is wounded to various degrees. NONE of us got the unconditional love and complete acceptance we were created to need... and so we've all self-medicated in a plethora of ways.
But, we're no more damaged than anyone else -- perhaps we're even among the more blessed? I mean, some folks go through their whole lifetime, not even knowing they're living diminished lives. Those of us who had issues which loomed-large enough to get our attention are blessed -- for then we know something's amiss, and we can seek healing.
May we all find the freedom that comes from healing!
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Sigismund on July 19, 2008, at 21:36:27
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 19:20:46
People here have been uncommonly nice and gracious to me.
Sometimes (for whatever reason, misunderstanding being an important one) people really hurt each other.
I suppose the civility rules are there to help with that. If they are, it's a bit much to ask that rules should be able to do that. And we all get very good (maybe too good?) at reading between the lines.
Sometimes I think that everyone gets sick of each other after long enough, and we need a new batch of people who haven't yet had enough of each other.
Posted by Justherself54 on July 19, 2008, at 22:47:04
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by Sigismund on July 19, 2008, at 21:36:27
If it's not dying, it's certainly in trouble. I'm concerned about the amount of thread hijacking which turns into personal bickering. Not good for newcomers. I pretty much stay on the med board but don't participate very much anymore. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one at this point.
Posted by Bobby on July 20, 2008, at 0:22:47
In reply to Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 17, 2008, at 7:34:58
I can't speak for anyone else--but there a few things that have precipitated my absence. I guess that first--I should start with a positive. I am trying to break out of the box and live more-away from the screen---just because I'm able at the moment. Feel like I've lost so much time over the last 10 years. Maybe it's trying too hard to make up all at once----but I don't think that qualifies as a reason not to strive for it.
Another major factor is that it's really frustrating to invest yourself in developing relationships(I'd like to call them friendships) only to have a poster just up and change their posting names and then-under their new name/names-want to be all "buddy buddy" --as if nothing happened. they know all about you--but now you have no idea who they are --or used to be. That's one reason I have a tendancy to shy away from some "Newcomers." I suppose there's some fancy scientific name or diagnosis that explains it perfectly--but that doesn't change the bottom line.
Then--there is the polarizing of the community--you're on my side or theirs. Perhaps it's a new trend of sorts---seems the same in USA politics---the Country appears to be splitting apart over various issues in black or white. The gray areas have melted faster than any Glacier under global warming. Man! It's either the Moral Majority or the ACLU.
I'll not pollute this forum with too much venom--I'll try to get off of my Pulpit--but I must end with one last thing that I don't have the capacity to relate to like maybe I should---however--a lot of people here are so hypersensitive! "oh my God! you said the word "the" or "it"--"How dare you!" --"Can't you see that triggers me or upsets my little world!? Henceforth---they will go on a crusade to strike out any essence of free speach. "I'm telling mommy!" I'm sure that there are valid points somewhere in the maze that is babble----but I'm probably too callous to recognize them at this point--and to some of you ----I'm sorry--I don't hate anyone--but crap! If you know something will bother you --just say no! Don't read the dang post! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Babble appears to have become just another newsstation with orders from upstairs to "only report the good news." I remember when Babble was more open, spontaneous, friendly, accepting and a poster had much more freedom to speak their mind---as long as they were civil---and I mean as in nonviolent. Just check the Archives-of say--Sar. Now civil has become a synonym for "politically correct." We have been torn asunder by special interest groups.
BUT--where there is life--there is hope---and maybe a good discussion--with open dialog--can heal enough wounds to breath some life back into the community. As mentioned beforehand---that's just me and I swear no allegiance to any one party. Thank's to Lurpsie for starting this thread--I think communication is good. thanks to anyone who's finished this hogwash and Best wishes to all. the end
Posted by TexasChic on July 20, 2008, at 1:25:50
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me, posted by Bobby on July 20, 2008, at 0:22:47
I've been here since 2002 and there's always talk like this. I HAVE seen a big turnover since I started posting, but maybe that's normal. Maybe people grow out of babble. Maybe there were a select few who gave babble a certain feel and now they are gone. And like someone else said, now there are many more sites like this than at the beginning, so it stands to reason things will thin out. I think its a lot of small factors that contribute to this feeling, but I don't think babble is dying. I think its just evolving.
As for the feeling of not belonging and clicks, I remember that being said many times in the past too. I also remember feeling that way when I first started posting, but that changed for me eventually. Maybe its just the normal dynamics of a chat room like this.
As for people being ridiculed, that's deplorable. It only takes a few bad apples (or sometimes even one) to make a whole lot of people feel bad. I don't like seeing people being picked on or ridiculed, and if that's going on it needs to be addressed by the deputies and/or Bob. So maybe Bob's less prominent presence does have something to do with that.
-T
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 20, 2008, at 7:28:21
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me, posted by Bobby on July 20, 2008, at 0:22:47
>Thank's to Lurpsie for starting this thread--I think communication is good. thanks to anyone who's finished this hogwash and Best wishes to all. the end
Thank YOU Bobby. I have been very worried that I started a firestorm over here on admin. I was concerned that I started something that will only add fuel to the fire. Maybe that's so, but I hope it won't escalate past the point of being useful dialog.
I can't remember the last time I started a thread over here. Sadly, I lack the analytical skills and perceptiveness to dissect the real issues behind the loss of so many wonderful posters--- real people, real characters.
-Ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 20, 2008, at 7:35:48
In reply to Things are shifting, posted by banana on July 20, 2008, at 5:46:42
Lacking the wherewithal to comment on Dr. Bob's psychology... I only submit the following reasons why some posters cease posting.
1) boredom. Once the med or therapy questions have been answered, there seems to be little reason to "hang out". When I get bored here, I try to be a little proactive and spice things up. Of course most of my efforts are failures, but at least I tried.
2) feeling better. One of the most prominent human tendencies is to run far and fast away from pain. Once the meds kick in, the job settles down, the relationships smooth out, the therapy is progressing appropriately-- why stick around? It might only remind one of the pain of adjustment, of transition. The reason why many folks seek out babble is because they are in pain, suffering for some biopsychosocial (political?) reason. Once that issue is resolved-- then what? Oh to be a Pollyanna and to proclaim- the death of babble is due to the success of modern psychiatry/psychotherapy... Wouldn't that be a panacea?
-Ll
Posted by Quintal on July 20, 2008, at 10:57:25
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me, posted by TexasChic on July 20, 2008, at 1:25:50
>As for people being ridiculed, that's deplorable. It only takes a few bad apples (or sometimes even one) to make a whole lot of people feel bad. I don't like seeing people being picked on or ridiculed, and if that's going on it needs to be addressed by the deputies and/or Bob. So maybe Bob's less prominent presence does have something to do with that.
One of the problems I've seen is that people don't stop bullying because of the civility guidelines. They either go away or learn a more subtle form of bullying that doesn't *technically* violate the civility guidelines. This has come to be known as 'flying under the radar' or 'stealth' posting, and a lot of people have got it down to an art. I find this particulalry troubling when new posters respond to a taunt with an honest, emotional outburst and get blocked. There are posts on record where an individual (who no longer posts) has admitted to doing this as a kind of sport. This might be one reason why newcomers tend not to hang around/ survive for long these days. Like fresh meat round vultures, they get picked off.
Q
Posted by fayeroe on July 20, 2008, at 11:46:13
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me » TexasChic, posted by Quintal on July 20, 2008, at 10:57:25
Quintal, I've noticed this since I came here back around 2002/03.
At times it feels like I'm watching some animal marking their territory...pawing, urinating, howling and in general saying "I'm someone to be reckoned with".
Why?
Sometimes I get the gut feeling that there is more here than meets the eye and upon reading a post again, I'll see see how the wording gets them "under the radar"..Such a waste of time for the person who sets out to antagonize.
Do you think the quote below applies Babble?
Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts... perhaps the fear of a loss of power.
John Steinbeck
Posted by Lemonaide on July 20, 2008, at 12:59:26
In reply to Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 17, 2008, at 7:34:58
lol
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 13:05:57
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 18, 2008, at 15:37:39
> Is babble dying due to deputy involvement or due to bob's disengagement?
>
> -LlOn nontearful consideration, I'd have to say that the one is the result of the other, not two separate possibilities. With Dr. Bob's current level of engagement, I don't see how he could continue to keep Babble open without a deputy system. Therefore the deputy system alone cannot possibly be the cause of Babble languishing. And this possibility could be restated and combined as Dr. Bob's disengagement pushing deputies forward into duties he once held is a factor in Babble's lack of activity.
Now, whether the current deputies are more corrupt, vicious, etc. than others might be is a separate consideration, I suppose. I happen to think we work very hard to apply the rules as we understand them, along with our understanding of Dr. Bob's wishes and our knowledge that he can and does override us. And to apply them fairly and equitably. And the fact that there are three of us, and that our actions can be overturned by Dr. Bob is an additional safety factor should any of us be given to enjoying power. Since I've worked hard all my life to avoid both power and its attendant responsibilities I would hesitate to consider myself someone who enjoys power. But I suppose that people who think otherwise would suppose that I could not be objective about that. I hope that Dr. Bob, who is aware of our struggles to apply the rules fairly, would not be in the latter group.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 13:09:01
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup » AbbieNormal, posted by Dena on July 19, 2008, at 13:43:34
I would not wish to be called a moderator. My role is not that of a moderator. The reality is that I act in Dr. Bob's name, to do what Dr. Bob would do if I were here, as best I can determine it. To me, that says "deputy" in its truest sense of the word.
I wouldn't mind assistant. But anything more than that would be misleading as to the actual truth of the situation.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 13:51:37
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 13:09:01
> The reality is that I act in Dr. Bob's name, to do what Dr. Bob would do if I were here, as best I can determine it....
Whoops. Freudian slip. It is true that I, like many people I suspect, wish that Dr. Bob would run Babble the way I would have him run it. Rather than leave the deputies to run it the way he would have us run it. Now *that* would be the best of all worlds.
Posted by johnj on July 20, 2008, at 14:41:59
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me » TexasChic, posted by Quintal on July 20, 2008, at 10:57:25
Wow, you hit the nail on the head. When I was banned for the week it happened because I had posters responding for another poster. To be honest it pissed me off. They were challenging what I said, when it was an honest attempt to help. When in essence they were doing what they were accusing me of. Too bad the person that I was talking with never clarified for all involved they just seemed to sit back and watch it all go down.
That was when I decided I just had to ignore one poster forever and even stated on the adm. board to Dr. bob about the ability to just turn off posters. That post was met with sarcasm which I viewed as a taunt so I responded harshly which just set me up. The deputies did nothing. So yes, people skate along the lines, which they have admitted, so they can "get away with it". The deputies should do something when the intent to taunt is there. The funny thing is I have NEVER responded to a legitimate question with taunting and if people do it for sport that is sad as that means they have nothing better to do.
So when people ask if babble is dying the answer is if you think it is it probably is. The good thing about all of this I have stayed away more and more and have vowed to limit my posting. That reminds me I need to go do something constructive for my mental health. I will be picking mulberrys today. Peace
johnj
Posted by fayeroe on July 20, 2008, at 16:27:43
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 13:09:01
Dinah, John G. has the final say on everything at PC.
I've seen John step in before a mod sees a post and either warn posters or let them know that he is locking the thread.
Generally, locking a thread comes after John and the available moderators confer behind the scenes, the same way it happens here.You have to do something that is very, very bad before you are asked to stay away.You may be "banned" or suspended for one week. Two people come to mind..a doctor of psychology who was "guest" moderating the psychology forum and a poster who had the entire site in an uproar.
John is more hands on there than Bob is here. That doesn't mean that there aren't squabbles and dustups....
The "moderator" part comes from different people being "in charge" of a specific forum.I have no idea how many mods are at PC now. Maybe 10.
p.s. I really haven't seen a post here today that refers to the deputies as being vicious but posters who know how to stay under the radar are receiving alot of heat. That issue is definitely frustrating posters.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2008, at 18:02:44
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? yup » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on July 20, 2008, at 16:27:43
I didn't mean to suggest that anyone had said that deputies were vicious. I was just seeing where the two possibilities could be separated and where they were entwined. My statement that they were inseparable would of course be incorrect, if it was the particular deputies that were being objected to.
It was, in part, an exercise in logic.
We really aren't moderators of any particular board, though. We're not in charge of anything. We just are Dr. Bob's hands.
Dr. Bob's chosen dictionary didn't load for me for some reason, but Encarta defines deputy as follows.
1. somebody's representative: somebody fully authorized or appointed to act on behalf of somebody else
It's gotten associated with law enforcement because of the prevalence of sheriff's deputies. But I think that the above pretty much defines our role. It's a very limited role, even now. Thank heavens.
"Moderators" might be appropriate for the PC role. I think deputy is the most appropriate name here.
I don't know that it matters in the grand scheme of things. But it matters to me to delineate where my power and responsibility ends.
As far as flying under radar...
I've long wished Dr. Bob would invent the "Please Cease and Desist". A more general warning for specific behavior that may not be conducive to civic harmony, but that is too rare or too elusive to put down in a rule. I'd actually like that better than the plethora of rules. If deputies weren't considered trustworthy to hand them out, it could be reserved for Dr. Bob alone. The general rule could be that requests by Administration should be followed.
Dr. Bob prefers more specific rules, and I understand his reasoning.
I wish Dr. Bob were around more, though.
In the end, isn't it better to have deputies constrained by the rules than deputies not constrained by the rules? Maybe it's even better to have a site owner who feels constrained by his own rules?
Posted by obsidian on July 20, 2008, at 18:15:56
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me » Quintal, posted by johnj on July 20, 2008, at 14:41:59
it's impossible to have a relationship with someone and not really piss them off sometimes right?
and I don't mean that we have to be "mean", because there is a difference between being mean and being truthful
although the response on the other end can be the same
honestly, the energy I have to expend to figure out what people are "really" saying is too much
I just wish people could be more direct, I can't deal with veiled anything at the moment
anger can be there, veiled enough to be civil or notI just want to know where people are coming from, I can't deal with anything else right now
Posted by fayeroe on July 20, 2008, at 18:22:17
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Just me » johnj, posted by obsidian on July 20, 2008, at 18:15:56
Great post!
Posted by ron1953 on July 22, 2008, at 14:46:23
In reply to Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 17, 2008, at 7:34:58
Actually, I think Babble is already dead, just not buried yet. I stopped posting here a long time ago because the insistence on political correctness and "safety", PBCs, blocks and general interference by Bob and the deputies created a rather repressive and sometimes hostile environment. It simply wasn't fun any more. And as the PC dead horse continued to get flogged, the site lost its allure and ultimately its purpose. I realize the PC-insistent folks feel that they've been doing the right thing but they're simply wrong.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
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