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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 79 to 103 of 104. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2005, at 14:55:35
In reply to Re: This has been interesting, but I need a break, posted by Minnie-Haha on April 29, 2005, at 12:42:42
> If it *is* intentional, then the poster will not curb it unless something compels him to. If it is *not* intentional, and the poster has seen and heard repeatedly that the behavior is offensive, then he will stop it on his own if he cares how others feel.
So either the poster intends to offend or he doesn't care how others feel? Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. The last time you were blocked it was for 1 week, so this time it's for 2.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2005, at 14:57:50
In reply to Re: being scrutinized » Dr. Bob, posted by nikkit2 on April 29, 2005, at 7:58:44
> > How does it make you feel when your words are being scrutinized?
>
> Its your role, as administrator to check the posts. You also only comment on them when they *are* uncivil.
>
> Can you not understand the pain this causes people?
>
> It HURTS, incredibly, to be accused of being anti semitic when that is very far from the truth, it hurts to have your civility questioned when in fact there is nothing in the post remotely uncivil.1. True, it's my role to check the posts. Still, that means I scrutinize your words, and you might have feelings about that.
2. Civility is subjective, and reasonable people can disagree. And have. :-)
3. I understand it can be uncomfortable to be accused, or even just scrutinized. But if you know something's very far from the truth? Would it hurt to be accused of having two heads?
> words are *often* taken out of context, and not reproduced accurately.
>
> By para phrasing and using [..]'s we can easily take almost any post and turn it into something different to what it is.But isn't one of the advantages of this medium that inaccuracies like that are easily corrected?
> Please please instigate a "report this" button so we can put a stop to admin posts that subject people to intense scrutiny
The button may help, but I don't know if it's going to put a stop to all conflict...
Also, a button shouldn't be too hard to add, but there's also the issue of how a "report" should then be handled. Any thoughts regarding that?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 15:14:58
In reply to Re: being scrutinized, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2005, at 14:57:50
What do you mean? Wouldn't the button just generate an email to you, with perhaps the id of the poster reporting and a short message space to explain what they think is wrong?
Then you could look at the posts reported and send back an automated message to the reporter along the lines of "I've looked at this and it appears to comply with the civility guidelines" or "I've looked at this and handled it accordingly"?
Are you asking if there should be a public report of posts reported? That would appear to be contrary to the spirit behind the whole button idea.
Weren't you giving some thought to allowing the button reporting to replace your reading every post and save you time? Are you still considering that? Or do you still want to look for things that others might not have found uncivil but you would.
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 30, 2005, at 15:38:51
In reply to Re: being scrutinized, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2005, at 14:57:50
3. I understand it can be uncomfortable to be accused, or even just scrutinized. But if you know something's very far from the truth? Would it hurt to be accused of having two heads?
To borrow a phrase, if someone is accused of being anti semitic, this could lead others to believe it. Having two heads is impossible.. but to be thought of as anti semitic, in my mind, is closer to be thought of as ignorant.
Would you allow it if someone "suggested" another was a peadophile? Both are illegal here in the UK (anti semitism falls under "inciting racial hatred" I believe)..Installing the "report it" button (Dinah's suggestion sounds perfect by the way) would remove all of this..
If you use outlook for your emails I might even be able to work out how you can just press a button to send the appropriate reply!Nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2005, at 0:27:08
In reply to Re: being scrutinized » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 15:14:58
> Then you could look at the posts reported and send back an automated message to the reporter along the lines of "I've looked at this and it appears to comply with the civility guidelines" or "I've looked at this and handled it accordingly"?
I was thinking maybe the reports should go to not just me, but also the deputy administrators. So we'd need to be coordinated on the other end. And would having a button mean people couldn't report something here?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2005, at 0:27:12
In reply to Re: being scrutinized » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on April 30, 2005, at 15:38:51
> > I understand it can be uncomfortable to be accused... But if you know something's very far from the truth? Would it hurt to be accused of having two heads?
>
> To borrow a phrase, if someone is accused of being anti semitic, this could lead others to believe it.Even if it's very far from the truth? They'd be swayed by one accusation?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 0:46:47
In reply to Re: being scrutinized, posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2005, at 0:27:12
Ah, Dr. Bob.
You know full well that no one is allowed to accuse another poster on Babble under the civility rules.
The distinction is whether one is being accused or not, not whether being accused is ok.
Not that this doesn't make for an interesting discussion.
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 0:49:44
In reply to Re: how a report should be handled, posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2005, at 0:27:08
I hadn't thought of the button replacing the Admin board. That's up to you to decide of course. I just thought it would be a more private way to request you to look at a post.
But I do think that if a post is found to be in compliance with the civility guidelines, there should be a place on the open forum to try to lobby for a change in the civility guidelines at the very least.
What are your thoughts?
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 0:52:06
In reply to Re: being scrutinized, posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2005, at 0:27:12
"post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down"
Posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 12:27:00
In reply to :-) » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 0:52:06
I have to admit, I'm interpreting things that Lou has said before, so I am sure he can speak to this better than me.
But since I believe Lou's stated intention about his requests to admin is to improve understanding of the civility guidelines for the sake of the entire community, I don't see how a report post button would change things-- unless it became a requirement rather than a proposed option. I think that those of us who occasionally flag a post here or who send an email to Dr. Bob might use it instead. But I *think* Lou's posts are intended to be open so that anyone in the community may learn from the clarification if they wish.
Lou, please correct me if I am misunderstanding your intentions.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 12:29:04
In reply to Re: being scrutinized » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 15:14:58
> What do you mean? Wouldn't the button just generate an email to you, with perhaps the id of the poster reporting and a short message space to explain what they think is wrong?
Oh lordy, I would NOT want anyone sending me their "id". Imagine all the unconscious needs to meet! :-D
Just had this association to your post as an aside when I was reading it. It made me giggle.
gg
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 15:58:49
In reply to Being playful » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 12:29:04
lol. It took me a good minute to figure that out. So much for my psychology book immersion.
I love playful. I'm feeling more than a bit playful myself.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 18:04:36
In reply to Being playful » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 12:29:04
He he, I thought something similar too.
Now if it was the ego, on the other hand...
Posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 5:19:25
In reply to Open procedure or not, posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 12:27:00
Maybe once Lou had been told something *was* uncivil he could bring it up here for "education"?
And you say his "intention" isn't to be uncivil with his requests.
But when has Lou *ever* taken someone elses intentions into account?Nikki
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 6:28:08
In reply to Re: Open procedure or not » gardenergirl, posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 5:19:25
Posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 7:18:56
In reply to I have no way of knowing (nm) » nikkit2, posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 6:28:08
Sorry, I was in the middle of a sulk.
What I meant was that it is a two way street.. If we have to take the intentions of Poster A into account, then surely Poster A should take into account the intentions of Poster B.
I will never forget, and will NEVER forgive the hurt that was caused me. That hurt could easily have killed me that night.. It pushed me off the fine line I was travelling, and I ended up in hopsital after taking an overdose.. After not having done so for quite some time.
I wasn't after people solving my problem, but all I needed were some virtual hugs, and a little understanding. But instead my words were bought here and pulled apart looking for some hidden meaning. Can you imagine how that hurts?I'm not going to just sit, quietly, at the side lines and let other people be subjected to what I went through. My opinions on this don't actually count for anything, as Dr Bob has said that its fine to Lou to question other peoples civility (though I do strongly believe it is uncivil to do so). But I will still not be quiet on the subject. If I can save one person from the hell I got pushed into, then thats good enough for me.
Nikki
Posted by Jai Narayan on May 3, 2005, at 7:52:17
In reply to Re: I have no way of knowing » gardenergirl, posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 7:18:56
I think (if I remember correctly) you got a lot of support and concern...
I know I was worried about the whole thing.oh nikki I can see why you would feel so upset.
I know it's late but
(((((((nikki)))))))you are not alone.
Jai Narayan
Posted by partlycloudy on May 3, 2005, at 10:21:13
In reply to Re: I have no way of knowing » gardenergirl, posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 7:18:56
And I'm so sorry for your pain from that. (Duh - where was I? Probably hiding my head in the sand.)
Personally, I too would hope that if someone found a post of mine of questionable civility, they would approach me about it first. People have done this with me, and I do appreciate it. I can't say, however, that it hurts any less than having a post questioned here on the Admin board. It has just resulted in "please do not post to me"s on multiple sides. Which is, I guess, the closest thing we have here to an Ignore button.
Sometimes I'm pretty much primed for feeling hurt, no matter how the issue is approached.
Posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 10:53:15
In reply to (((Nikki))) I had no idea that had happened., posted by partlycloudy on May 3, 2005, at 10:21:13
Its OK.. I didn't tell anyone at the time that it had happened.. I rarely tell anyone when I over dose, and its rare for me actually seek hospital treatment for it. I never want to be labelled as someone who does it for attention, and though logically I know I wouldn't, its one of my little paranoias!
Does that make any sense?
I should have kept my mouth shut about it even now.. Its a bad frustrating day though
Nikki
Posted by Jai Narayan on May 3, 2005, at 19:42:26
In reply to Re: (((Nikki))) I had no idea that had happened. » partlycloudy, posted by nikkit2 on May 3, 2005, at 10:53:15
Nikki, if you can't talk about this on babble...
well then where can you?I too have gone down that road.
Honestly I never did it to get attention...
I just wanted out.pain is hard to take sometimes...
and pain can be so temporary but appear permanent.Jai Narayan
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 6, 2005, at 1:01:16
In reply to Re: how a report should be handled » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 0:49:44
> I hadn't thought of the button replacing the Admin board... I just thought it would be a more private way to request you to look at a post.
>
> But I do think that if a post is found to be in compliance with the civility guidelines, there should be a place on the open forum to try to lobby for a change in the civility guidelines at the very least.The button might result in a quicker response, too...
What about making the button for issues with specific posts and the board for issues with general guidelines?
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2005, at 19:06:40
In reply to Re: how a report should be handled, posted by Dr. Bob on May 6, 2005, at 1:01:16
Dr. Bob, Just my opinion, but that sounds like a good idea. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jai Narayan on May 7, 2005, at 17:16:13
In reply to Re: how a report should be handled » Dr. Bob, posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2005, at 19:06:40
I ask you questions and adore you
my feelings go un-noticed and un-answered.
a void
empty space
no word from the Man
I always hope for a tidbit
crumbscan't you throw me a crumb?
Jai, forever ignored
you have your own ignore button right?
cosmic Joke
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 8, 2005, at 8:00:00
In reply to Dr. Bob you never talk to me..., posted by Jai Narayan on May 7, 2005, at 17:16:13
> I ask you questions and adore you
> my feelings go un-noticed and un-answered.Sorry! Could you repeat the question?
Bob
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 14, 2005, at 19:51:55
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Minnie-Haha, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2005, at 14:55:35
As a follow-up, I would like to say that I was surprised and hurt to be blocked on this thread, for the following reasons.
1. THE PARAGRAPH IT STARTED WITH said: “First: I’m not trying to attack any particular poster here. I assume that most posters here are nice people with lots of positive things to contribute to the group. What I’m trying to do is start a discussion on whether or not a certain kind of posting behavior can be considered uncivil, and if so, what to do about it.” (At the beginning of the thread, I also used a he/she construction, but that got clumsy so I switched to the generic “he” that is common in English. That is “he” in the sense of “anyone” and not a particular person.)
2. MY POSTS ON THIS THREAD name no particular posters. You will find that others do, but I never even respond to those posts. All of my arguments are hypothetical situations, sometimes featuring an offender called “Minnie.” (Me… Though at the end of one of my last posts, I stumbled and used the words “a certain individual’s behavior,” but even then I did not identify anyone. And in my own defense, at this point in the thread I was getting tired.)
3. CONSIDERING THAT *** INTENTION *** is the bulk of the other side of the debate here, I think it’s ironic and extreme that I was blocked on this thread even though my intention is not to hurt anyone. What I’m trying to do, as carefully as possible, is address a behavior that is hurtful to me and to others. (I was blocked on a previous thread on this subject, but I wasn’t as careful then and the punishment seemed fair.)
FOR THE TIME BEING, I will try to ignore the kind of behavior we’re talking about. However, I think asking people who are offended to ignore it is rather unfair in an otherwise pretty-darned fair forum. (Help, help! I’m being repressed.)
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