Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1099906

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Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by meltingpot on July 26, 2018, at 11:44:59

Hi,

I'm just after some advice, reassurance I guess really.

Zyprexa has been an absolute Godsend for me over the years and I've even been able to manage with just a small amount of Zyprexa daily and nothing else to get rid of my anxiety and suicidal thoughts. So you may wonder why I'm not satisfied with just this.

I suppose I'm always hoping for that elusive cure, something that will put me back to normal and fix my broken brain. Whilst I'm sooooo grateful for the medication it bothers me that underneath the medication I feel like a complete nervous wreck. At my worse, I can't sleep, I can't sit still, I just want to walk all of the time and I'm constantly fantasising about ways of killing myself. I feel empty, anxious and broken. On medication I've been able to work and study for a degree and have had some really nice times over the past 15 years. so I have been very lucky.

I was thinking about trying to get on a trial for Psilocybin. I did get on a trial two years ago but backed out at the last minute because I'm scared of the kind of trip I'm likely to have. I went to Amsterdam to try microdosing on psilocybin truffles which had zero affect on my depression.

I want to do the trial but my only concern is that psilocybin is supposed to be a 5HT2 agonist and Zyprexa is a 5HT2 antagonist. Therfore, I'm just worried that as Zyprexa helps me so much, psilocybin might have the complete opposite affect. Having said that Mirtazapine 5HT2 antagonist seemed to make my anxiety worse sometimes when I first took it. So I'm not sure if it is the 5HT2 antagonism that actually helps me.

Does anyone know why Zyprexa is such a good anxiety agent? What the mode of action is. It even helps me when I'm so anxious I'm sick and I've since read that it is used for people having Chemotherapy as it is a 5HT3 antagonist. So that explains that.


Denise

 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 26, 2018, at 12:22:38

In reply to Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by meltingpot on July 26, 2018, at 11:44:59

Well Zyprexa is an Antipsychotic and Shrooms are "Pro-Psychotics"

 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question meltingpot

Posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:32:51

In reply to Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by meltingpot on July 26, 2018, at 11:44:59

Would you have to stop taking Zyprexa in order to participate in the trial? In a psilocybin clinical trial for depression that's about to start in the US, current 5-HT2A antagonist antidepressant medication is listed in the exclusion criteria.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03380442

 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:41:51

In reply to Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by meltingpot on July 26, 2018, at 11:44:59

I tried psilocybin three times, years ago. My first two trips were heavenly, but had no long-term impact on my depression. The third time I took it, nearly a year later, I was in a severe depression. This time I had a bad trip. But this bad trip got me out of my severe depression. And it would be years before I would be severely depressed again.

 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2018, at 16:16:15

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:41:51

Hey Denise,

You are right that psilocybin is a 5-ht2a/c + 5-ht1a agonist. In general antipsychotics would counteract the effects (as they block these 5-ht receptors).

Its not really clear how Psilocybin may help depression (whether it is due to the 5-ht2a effects, or perhaps 5-ht1a effects).

It is your call, of course. But, just because you benefit from a 5-ht2a antagonist doesn't mean that Psilocybin couldn't help.

There is some evidence that both antagonists and agonists end up doing the same thing (desensitizing the receptor). Psilocybin, like LSD may also have neurotrophic effects.

Linkadge


 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2018, at 16:16:52

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:41:51

If you were having a bad trip, you could always take some Zyprexa (or vitamin C) to help counteract this. There are ways to abort bad trips.

Linkadge

 

Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question

Posted by linkadge on July 26, 2018, at 16:21:00

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:41:51

Interestingly some of the antipsychotics have partial agonist activity at 5-ht2a. For example, I remember reading that clozapine can actually act as a partial 5-ht2a agonist (activating the receptor at certain times).

The idea of shutting down a certain receptor 24/7 is a bit simplistic. The receptors are there for a reason.


 

To Hugh

Posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:03:12

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question meltingpot, posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:32:51

Hi Hugh,

If I take 400mg of Seroxat then I can do without the Zyprexa. It's only if I stop the Seroxat that I need Zyprexa. In fact Zyprexa is the only thing that helps me withdraw off Seroxat without unbearable suicidal thoughts, sleepless nights etc.

Denise

 

Re: To Hugh

Posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:07:49

In reply to To Hugh, posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:03:12

Sorry, I meant to say 40mg of Seroxat.

Denise

 

To Linkadge

Posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:09:45

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by linkadge on July 26, 2018, at 16:16:15

Hi Linkadge,

Thanks for the reassurance :-)

I manage ok on Seroxat or Zyprexa, not brilliant but manage to work, study etc without falling apart. Just would hate to jeapardise things and make things worse

Denise

 

To Hugh

Posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:26:29

In reply to Re: Psilocybin/Zyprexa question, posted by Hugh on July 26, 2018, at 12:41:51

Hi Hugh,

It's nice to hear that the psilocybin got you out of a severe depression and you were ok for years. Did you still feel depressed but not as bad?

How would you describe severe depression? Do you experience a lot of anxiety with it?


Denise

 

Re: To Hugh meltingpot

Posted by Hugh on July 29, 2018, at 15:52:20

In reply to To Hugh, posted by meltingpot on July 28, 2018, at 12:26:29

> Hi Hugh,
>
> It's nice to hear that the psilocybin got you out of a severe depression and you were ok for years. Did you still feel depressed but not as bad?

Psilocybin lifted me out of a severe depression, but it didn't end my depression. Instead, I felt mildly to moderately depressed for years, which was still a huge improvement.

> How would you describe severe depression? Do you experience a lot of anxiety with it?

The severe depression I was in at the time was a suicidal one. My anxiety at the time was moderate.


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