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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Lou Pilder on March 3, 2016, at 19:50:07
In reply to Aha moment, posted by J Kelly on March 3, 2016, at 18:20:35
> Me:
> this depression/anxiety has biological causes
> its not my fault
> I didn't ask for this
> why me
> this is hopeless
> Im waiting for the right med
>
> Therapist:
> yoga
> deep breathing exercises
> relaxation techniques
> journaling
>
> Are you kidding me? I can barely get out of bed. But here's the rub: while I KNOW there is a med out there that will "fix" me I haven't found it after five years of hell. So Im gonna breathe, do some yoga, journal like a champ, and relax to a free app at bedtime.
>
> So my aha moment: It aint fair but i'm worth it. Just sayin. Can anyone relate?
>
> Jade
>
> ps- did I mention THIS ISNT FAIR?
>
> J Kelly:
[...this is hopeless...there is a med out there that will "fix" me. I haven't found it after 5 years of hell...].
Lou:
You may already know that I have been writing here about a great deception. I haven't really posted what it is yet, but I think that if you knew, you could break on through to another side as you could leave the train to death that many are on here for more than 5 years. You say that it is not your fault. I agree because of what has been revealed to me about The Great Deception. But you see after 5 years of hell, that you are at the station , off the train, waiting for a new train. I say to board a new train. I can give you a ticket to ride.
Lou
>
>
>
>
Posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2016, at 1:10:40
In reply to Aha moment, posted by J Kelly on March 3, 2016, at 18:20:35
> So my aha moment: It aint fair but i'm worth it. Just sayin. Can anyone relate?Hi! I think I get it. You're ready to take care of yourself now, whether or not you've found a fix.
I do a cr*p-ton of journaling. More when I'm not doing well. Can't reliably get myself to yoga, but I can always write.
Posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 7:12:28
In reply to Re: Aha moment » J Kelly, posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2016, at 1:10:40
>
> > So my aha moment: It aint fair but i'm worth it. Just sayin. Can anyone relate?
>
> Hi! I think I get it. You're ready to take care of yourself now, whether or not you've found a fix.
>
> I do a cr*p-ton of journaling. More when I'm not doing well. Can't reliably get myself to yoga, but I can always write.Hi Tabitha :)
What's frustrating to me is that I have experienced several brief remissions due to meds and during those I felt "normal". Meaning I felt like the old me. So I wait for that to miraculously happen again, with out my having to do anything other than take a pill or two. Or three.
I've always sorta smirked at the idea that these seemingly impotent methods (journaling, yoga etc) were an effective way to get to wellness. However, if I'm not actively turning over every stone how am I deserving of wellness (that's not quite right...I am always deserving).Anyway my new therapist is talking to me about creating pathways in the brain with repeated positive behaviors. I'm listening. And I'm realizing how lazy I've been.
Jade
Posted by SLS on March 4, 2016, at 7:46:15
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 7:12:28
> Anyway my new therapist is talking to me about creating pathways in the brain with repeated positive behaviors.
Any learning or extinction (positive or negative) requires changes in neuronal pathways. There are several good reasons to engage yourself in psychotherapy. It might not improve your illness very much, but it can:
1. Create a lifeline to help you survive during your worst episodes.
2. Developing coping strategies to enhance your ability to survive and minimize pain and suffering.
3. Attend to old dysfunctional thinking.
4. Reduce the psychosocial stress that both induced the illness and made it more difficult to treat.
5. Allows drugs to work better and prevents relapse once remission is achieved.
Personally, I am inclined to avoid psychoanalysis and psychodynamic therapies. They take too long and can increase stress rather than reducing it. For me, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and IPT (interpersonal therapy) were good choices, especially when combined.
> I'm listening. And I'm realizing how lazy I've been.
Please don't confuse laziness with depression.
Depression often "feels" like laziness. Loss of interest in life robs one of drive. This is exacerbated by deficits in motivation and energy. It makes no sense to beat up on yourself. I hope you realize that just staying alive is a huge accomplishment. Not only that, but you are also fighting to find healing and move forward.
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2016, at 14:37:31
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 7:12:28
Hi again Jade.
I do think medication is the biggest factor in remission by far. Self-care stuff like yoga, journaling, etc is more of a stress-reliever or coping mechanism.
It sounds like you are judging yourself a bit for expecting pills to work, because taking pills seems easier than other self-care tasks. I look at it the opposite way. Taking pills is hard on your sense of identity. It's also stigmatized. It's easier to talk proudly about doing yoga and journaling than to admit taking psych meds. Taking pills is scary and really not easy at all.
In general, I don't think that more effort results in more reward where health is concerned. So just because yoga is more effort than taking your daily pill doesn't mean it's going to work better. Sure, it may give you a better feeling of accomplishment, so you can enjoy that feeling if you can get yourself to do the yoga.
If your therapist is claiming that yoga etc is as effective as medication, I would challenge them on that. I don't think therapists have enough education on how the brain works to make claims like that, or talk about "rewiring" your brain. Some therapists are into a lot of pseudo-sciency stuff.
Posted by SLS on March 4, 2016, at 18:00:22
In reply to Re: Aha moment » J Kelly, posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2016, at 14:37:31
When I first learned that I had an affective disorder, I was very angry. I wanted it to be psychological rather than biological. I wanted complete control over my psyche, and was more than willing to go for psychotherapy. I was not afraid of hard work. The idea of being dependent on a drug was abhorrent to me. It still is. However, not having any drugs at all to treat my pain is even more abhorrent. When a drug starts working for me, I drop to my knees and thank God for pharmaceuticals.
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on March 4, 2016, at 18:46:04
In reply to Aha moment, posted by J Kelly on March 3, 2016, at 18:20:35
You could try looking at your diet, too. I kinda came to a road block with medical treatment options, so that's what I've done. There are many diets out there that are better than the average American diet. (If that's basically what you've been eating.
It took a bit for me to change my ways of eating, but I've finally cut out all "added sugar" and grains. 99% of what I eat is I guess what you'd call a "whole food". Very little processed foods with anything artificial. Once I got the hang of what I can and can't eat, it got pretty easy to eat like this after a few weeks. Though I'd still LOVE a slice of pizza from Pizza Hut, I just ignore the craving.
I haven't really experienced a noticeable benefit on my mental health yet, but a healthier diet definitely can't hurt.
Posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 19:08:33
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by SLS on March 4, 2016, at 18:00:22
> When a drug starts working for me, I drop to my knees and thank God for pharmaceuticals.
>
>
> - ScottThis is totally me! Do you simultaneously look to the sky?
Posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 19:16:06
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by Hello321 on March 4, 2016, at 18:46:04
> You could try looking at your diet, too.
> I haven't really experienced a noticeable benefit on my mental health yetYou're not helping your cause here :)
I just had a steak & cheese, fries, and a beer. It was life changing.
Jade
Posted by SLS on March 4, 2016, at 19:16:40
In reply to Re: Aha moment » SLS, posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 19:08:33
> > When a drug starts working for me, I drop to my knees and thank God for pharmaceuticals.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> This is totally me! Do you simultaneously look to the sky?Yes.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 19:26:59
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by Hello321 on March 4, 2016, at 18:46:04
Im sorry Hello,
I know you were just trying to help me. And Lord knows I need to develop better dietary habits. Its just that being on Zyprexa ...well picking up carry out feels like getting a fix from the corner dealer (I've never done that)
Thanks, Jade
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 7:09:07
In reply to Re: Aha moment » J Kelly, posted by SLS on March 4, 2016, at 7:46:15
> > There are several good reasons to engage yourself in psychotherapy.
Yes I agree. I'm finding myself at a crossroads where I'm realizing that all of my attempts at returning to "normal" have been fruitless. At some point(now?)I have to accept myself and my illness and learn some coping skills. Because what I'm doing isn't working. Oh who am I kidding... I'll never accept this, nor will I stop looking for that magic pill that will take me back to my old happy go lucky self.
>
> 2. Developing coping strategies to enhance your ability to survive and minimize pain and suffering.Yes, this.
>
> > I'm listening. And I'm realizing how lazy I've been.
>
> Please don't confuse laziness with depression.You're right. I'm sorry I said that. I hope I didn't offend anyone.
> It makes no sense to beat up on yourself. I hope you realize that just staying alive is a huge accomplishment. Not only that, but you are also fighting to find healing and move forward.Thank you for that. I am fighting but I'm so very tired. I've been fighting for 5 years. I never cry but the other day I found myself tearing up...
Enough. Word of the day: Cope.
Jade
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 7:30:42
In reply to Re: Aha moment » J Kelly, posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2016, at 14:37:31
> Hi again Jade.
Hi again Tabitha :)
>
> I do think medication is the biggest factor in remission by far. Self-care stuff like yoga, journaling, etc is more of a stress-reliever or coping mechanism.Agreed.
>
> It sounds like you are judging yourself a bitAll day every day. Its exhausting.
> I look at it the opposite way. Taking pills is hard on your sense of identity. It's also stigmatized. It's easier to talk proudly about doing yoga and journaling than to admit taking psych meds. Taking pills is scary and really not easy at all.
Actually other than the fear of side effects and ineffectiveness I have no problem with taking pills/meds. I never have. What's hard for me is the stigma associated with being deeply depressed. The shame I feel is debilitating. Objectively I know I shouldn't feel this way but I do.
.
>
>
> If your therapist is claiming that yoga etc is as effective as medication, I would challenge them on that. I don't think therapists have enough education on how the brain works to make claims like that, or talk about "rewiring" your brain. Some therapists are into a lot of pseudo-sciency stuff.
>No maybe I misspoke. I think she does accept that our time together should be spent learning new behaviors and coping skills. She has not implied that it's a replacement for proper med management. In fact she is part of a practice that includes my pdoc.
Jade
Posted by SLS on March 5, 2016, at 10:24:43
In reply to Re: Aha moment » SLS, posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 7:09:07
> I'll never accept this,
You have company.
> nor will I stop looking for that magic pill
Yes, there are magic pills - at least for me.
> that will take me back to my old happy go lucky self.
I am working towards the same thing.
I have had certain drugs work magic for me for short periods of time - enough to know what life can be like when depression disappears. I can't wait!
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 11:21:10
In reply to Re: Aha moment » Hello321, posted by J Kelly on March 4, 2016, at 19:16:06
It's cool. I suppose I need to find a different site
to discuss other options to increase ones well-being, that aren't simply prescription meds.
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 12:56:18
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 11:21:10
> It's cool. I suppose I need to find a different site
> to discuss other options to increase ones well-being, that aren't simply prescription meds.Hello321,
I'm so sorry if I came off as not placing value on non-med approaches to healing. Please don't leave because of my insensitive post. I know from posting here years ago, all respectful opinions are valued. My niece recently had to make big changes to her diet due to health issues. She's telling me how much better she is an all areas.
I value your opinion. Please keep posting :)
Jade
Posted by SLS on March 5, 2016, at 14:53:20
In reply to Re: Aha moment, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 11:21:10
Please don't go away. I always look forward to reading your posts. Alternative perspectives are definitely welcome. I'd be curious to know what you learn from other sites.
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 18:03:37
In reply to Re: NO HELLO321!! » Hello321, posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 12:56:18
Oops, didn't mean to make it sound like I planned to stop posting on psychobabble. Just that this site is more focused on discussing meds than I've been lately. But I would like to know of a good site that discusses improving ones health and well-being through the diet one eats, as well as other alternatives.
I like babble. It has some very knowledgeable users that have helped me at times when I had a question about certain medications. I wish I could be more helpful for some users on here than I've been.
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 18:34:29
In reply to Oops!, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 18:03:37
> Oops, didn't mean to make it sound like I planned to stop posting on psychobabble. Just that this site is more focused on discussing meds than I've been lately. But I would like to know of a good site that discusses improving ones health and well-being through the diet one eats, as well as other alternatives.
>
> I like babble. It has some very knowledgeable users that have helped me at times when I had a question about certain medications. I wish I could be more helpful for some users on here than I've been.Hey there, thanks for clearing that up :)
I actually went back and read some of your earlier threads/posts. I'm really interested in some of the diets you were discussing. I tried the ketogenic diet. I found it to be effective for weight loss. Not so much for energy. I would also like to hear your thoughts about the "epilepsy diet".
How do you feel about supplements? I just bought B-complex, Fish oil, magnesium, and D-3.
Please note: For every poster you interact with here there are many more ppl "lurking" and getting benefit from your threads and posts. I know because I've been lurking for a while but was not up to posting.
RJ recently re-posted a list for me of mental health sites he put together. I don't know how to re-post it but it was fairly recent.
I'm glad you are gonna stick around. I hope RJ's list helps you :)
Jade
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 19:14:13
In reply to Re: Oops! » Hello321, posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 18:34:29
> I actually went back and read some of your earlier threads/posts. I'm really interested in some of the diets you were discussing. I tried the ketogenic diet. I found it to be effective for weight loss. Not so much for energy. I would also like to hear your thoughts about the "epilepsy diet".
>
> How do you feel about supplements? I just bought B-complex, Fish oil, magnesium, and D-3.
>
> Please note: For every poster you interact with here there are many more ppl "lurking" and getting benefit from your threads and posts. I know because I've been lurking for a while but was not up to posting.
>
> RJ recently re-posted a list for me of mental health sites he put together. I don't know how to re-post it but it was fairly recent.
>
> I'm glad you are gonna stick around. I hope RJ's list helps you :)
>
> Jade
>
>
>
>
I could be mistaken, but I believe the epilepsy diet is the same thing as the ketogenic diet, where you're basically changing your body and brains energy source from glucose to ketones by consuming very little carbs and having your diet consist mainly of healthy fats. I just hate that there's so much debate on which date are good and which are bad. The only fat fully agreed on as being harmful seems to be trans fats. I just know I need to try something different than what I've been doing, since I've not really gotten anywhere with a typical lean meat, high fruit and vegetable diet. And I have hit a roadblock with normal psychiatric meds, and have been looking at meds that might sound a bit far fetched when it comes to mental health treatment.When it comes to supplements, I'm much more interested in getting vitamins/minerals through foods. Some supplements derived from certain things like spices seem great though. Curcumin is very interesting. I did try a vitamin D3 supplement some months back and, it may have just been a coincidence, but I'd feel kinda crappy on days I took it.
Back to my experience with the ketogenic/epilepsy diet, I've really been dedicated to it about a week now, and I've read it can take anywhere from a week to a month for the body to become "keto adapted". How long did you do it for? Did you use ketostix and a glucose meter to insure you went into ketosis? Any side effects? U've been feeling a bit more bleh mentally the last week, but that's supposed to be part of the carbohydrate withdrawal as your body adapts to running off ketones instead. I plan to give this diet at least 2 months to see if I benefit.
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 19:40:49
In reply to Re: Oops!, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 19:14:13
> I could be mistaken, but I believe the epilepsy diet is the same thing as the ketogenic diet, where you're basically changing your body and brains energy source from glucose to ketones by consuming very little carbs and having your diet consist mainly of healthy fats.I bought a book about this diet for my son years ago. He has epilepsy. Depakote works well for him but I worry. If a diet for epilepsy is also healthy I could maybe persuade him to follow it. He works out most days and is dedicated to watching his diet so maybe he'd try it.
>I just hate that there's so much debate on which date are good and which are bad. The only fat fully agreed on as being harmful seems to be trans fats. I just know I need to try something different than what I've been doing, since I've not really gotten anywhere with a typical lean meat, high fruit and vegetable diet. And I have hit a roadblock with normal psychiatric meds, and have been looking at meds that might sound a bit far fetched when it comes to mental health treatment.
May I ask which meds?
>
> When it comes to supplements, I'm much more interested in getting vitamins/minerals through foods. Some supplements derived from certain things like spices seem great though. Curcumin is very interesting. I did try a vitamin D3 supplement some months back and, it may have just been a coincidence, but I'd feel kinda crappy on days I took it.Worth noting. I take this as I tested very low in vitamin D.
>
> Back to my experience with the ketogenic/epilepsy diet, I've really been dedicated to it about a week now, and I've read it can take anywhere from a week to a month for the body to become "keto adapted". How long did you do it for? Did you use ketostix and a glucose meter to insure you went into ketosis? Any side effects? U've been feeling a bit more bleh mentally the last week, but that's supposed to be part of the carbohydrate withdrawal as your body adapts to running off ketones instead. I plan to give this diet at least 2 months to see if I benefitI did it for a month or more. Its been a while. I remember struggling with the recommended month long trial. I lost a significant amount of weight. I also had NO energy and had to stop the diet. I did use the keto sticks. They indicated I was in full ketosis. I def felt "bleh" but I may have quit too soon. If you can make it to 2 months I salute you :)
I might dc the vitamin D and see if I notice a difference.
Thanks for your insights.
Jade
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 20:27:35
In reply to Re: Oops! » Hello321, posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 19:40:49
> I bought a book about this diet for my son years ago. He has epilepsy. Depakote works well for him but I worry. If a diet for epilepsy is also healthy I could maybe persuade him to follow it. He works out most days and is dedicated to watching his diet so maybe he'd try it.
I'd hope so, especially if his epilepsy ever gets out of control. I've been reading up on the ketogenic diet and watching many YouTube videos posted by folks who do the diet as a means to mainly be healthier. It's believed the keto diet aligns more closely than a normal diet to the normal diet humans adapted to thousands of years ago. Babies feeding off breast milk are said to be in a mild form of ketosis since breast milk is about 56% fat. Personally, I'm not completely sold on the keto diet (even tho I'm doing it) but I do feel grains and "added sugar" has no place in anyone's diet. I don't understand the whole basis of it, but it is known that Cancer cells actually feed off sugar.
> May I ask which meds?
>
I've tried Prednisone, the 5ht2c agonist Belviq that's used for weight loss, Clomid that's used to benefit certain hormones, and I'm considering Methyldopa, a med that inhibits the formation of dopamine in the brain. And yes I know it sounds like I'm experimenting with meds because I suppose that's exactly what I'm doing. It's a long story, but I have a history of paradoxical severe reactions to typical psych meds. So I see any time one tries them as also being a risky experiment.> >
> > When it comes to supplements, I'm much more interested in getting vitamins/minerals through foods. Some supplements derived from certain things like spices seem great though. Curcumin is very interesting. I did try a vitamin D3 supplement some months back and, it may have just been a coincidence, but I'd feel kinda crappy on days I took it.
>
> Worth noting. I take this as I tested very low in vitamin D.
>
>They say most people are rather low in vitamin d. And actually, if I recall correctly, vitamin d is believed to function more like a natural steroid in the body than a vitamin. But if enough sunlight isn't available, I would look at Light Therapy.
>
> I did use the keto sticks. They indicated I was in full ketosis. I def felt "bleh" but I may have quit too soon. If you can make it to 2 months I salute you :)
>
>
>
:D yeah it's been a bit difficult when I have to say no to many of the foods I used to eat. I'd love to have some pizza and ice cream right now! But I've looked up some keto diet recipes that have helped me power through my carb and sweet cravings. I've made cookies with milled flax seed and stevia instead of flour and sugar. I just got done eating a "fat bomb" made with unsweetened coconut shavings, heavy cream, cream cheese, walnuts, coconut oil, unsweetened cocoa and last but not least... Stevia. Mix it all up and microwave it to get it warm and it tastes amazing! I now drink unsweetened vanilla almond milk instead of regular milk because milk actually has a lot of sugar in it.
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 20:32:55
In reply to Re: Oops!, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 20:27:35
Another thing that ive done is replaced all sweet fruits with spinach, cauliflower, and I eatvan avocado with salt every morning for breakfast. Like I said, it does get annoying sometimes when I crave certain foods I can't have. But I just try to find a "keto friendly" food that's enjoyable to eat that I calm my cravings with.
Posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 20:50:34
In reply to Re: Oops!, posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 20:27:35
>>I just got done eating a "fat bomb" made with unsweetened coconut shavings, heavy cream, cream cheese, walnuts, coconut oil, unsweetened cocoa and last but not least... Stevia. Mix it all up and microwave it to get it warm and it tastes amazing!
Okay now you're just being cruel.
Jade :)
Posted by Hello321 on March 5, 2016, at 21:10:04
In reply to Re: Oops! » Hello321, posted by J Kelly on March 5, 2016, at 20:50:34
Lol :D
It adds up like 500 calories in a cereal bowl not even halfway full. If Stevia didn't exist to satisfy my sweet tooth, and my addiction to normal sugar sweetened chocolate, then I'm pretty sure I'd have already given up on this diet.
But if I happen to end up feeling noticeably better in any way on this diet, I'll probably be notifying everyone on psychobabble about it.
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