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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
I've been dealing with chornic insomnia for 5 years now. I have not been able to go to bed at a normal time or sleep for more than 5 hours a night for 5 years. My life is a disaster because of insomnia. The only thing that has ever helped me sleep is Remeron. Am I the only one that is dealing with insomnia that just won't go away no matter what? I have tried every antidepressant, every sleep medication, and TMS. This is ridiculous already. I just want to have a normal life.
Posted by vbs on May 31, 2014, at 4:41:53
In reply to Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
I have pretty bad insomnia too. I usually only get 3-4 hours of sleep per night. It's been like this for years. I take Trazodone 50 mg for insomnia. I also take Benedryl and melatonin.
Posted by Babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 5:06:15
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by vbs on May 31, 2014, at 4:41:53
Aren't you sick of living like this? Do those meds help you at all? Do you take them all together?
Posted by vbs on May 31, 2014, at 5:45:29
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 5:06:15
I would love to be able to sleep at least 8 hours a night. I would probably feel better and experience fewer psychotic episodes. The meds barely help alleviate my symptoms. I hear voices a lot. I must have treatment-resistant schizoaffective disorder.
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2014, at 10:15:56
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by vbs on May 31, 2014, at 5:45:29
Being older than you are. I haven't been sleeping well. Had been sleeping well until multiple stressors and upped the benzos. Last night at 3am had taken 5x the dose of xanax I normally take about 1.5mg and still had racing pulse and indigestion and that despite antacids. I do hope it wasn't some sort of cardiac event. Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on May 31, 2014, at 11:44:38
In reply to Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
Another website I go on, everyone recommends Unisom sleep tablets with active ingredient doxylamine succinate (25 mg). They say they take 1/2 tablet and no hangover and sleep well. Some Unisom products have the same ingredient as Benadryl, but u have to get the one that has this particular active ingredient. I haven't yet tried it, but plan to. I don't have chronic insomnia, though....yet.
Posted by Guy on May 31, 2014, at 13:33:12
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2014, at 10:15:56
I guess it all comes down to how desperate you are and which types of meds you and you doctor are willing to try. I currently take Remeron plus 1 mg clonazepam and that works quite well for 8-9 hours of sleep. Whether or not this will continue to work I do not know. If it poops out, I will have to go back on Zyprexa and wean off the benzo. Some people also have success with Seroquel. Be warned that the antipsychotics come with some heavy duty side effects such as weight gain and possible diabetes 2. TD is also a concern but not so much at lower doses. It's easy to get trapped on the med merry-go-round.
Posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 13:55:53
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by vbs on May 31, 2014, at 5:45:29
I'm really sorry about that. That must be terrible. Have you tried Remeron for sleep? That will help anyone sleep.
Posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 13:57:24
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2014, at 10:15:56
Wow, it was probably just anxiety. I'm sorry to hear that.
Posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 13:58:35
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else? » babbler20, posted by gadchik on May 31, 2014, at 11:44:38
Thanks, I've actually tried that at 4 times the normal dose and didn't feel anything, unfortunately. I've taken up to 150 mg of Benadryl with no effect either.
Posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 14:01:29
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Guy on May 31, 2014, at 13:33:12
Remeron is an awesome drug. It's the only thing that helps me sleep and have a normal life. When I was on it, I gained 50 lbs, but I wasn't counting calories and stopped caring about how I looked. I have lost 30 of those lbs in the last 2 months and I'm thinking about going back on it with a stimulant to curb my appetite. How much weight have you gained on it? How long have you been on it?
Posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 15:40:37
In reply to Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
I also have chronic insomnia. Have you tried adding magnesium and melatonin to the remeron?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 17:53:42
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 15:40:37
Just to add, I would say I am cured from about 5 years of the most disrupted sleep cycles.
The cure started with remeron, but I have been able to piggy back off its effect with some other supplements. This has lowered the needed dose.
Remeron was better than trazodone for sleep (for me). Trazodone isn't as potent and antihistamine, but it does have the 5-ht2a antagonist effects.
I have been able to identify about 7 sleep inducing mechanisms which can be targeted for insomnia.
Histamine (H1 antagonist)
Serotonin (5-ht2a antagonist)
Intracellular (i.e. calcium antagonists)
Gabaergic - I.e. benzodiazepine
M1 / M2 agonist - i.e. melatonin (or rozerem)
Cannabinoid (i.e. oleamide)
Opioid
PKC - i.e. mood stabilizers
GSK3 - i.e. mood stabilizers (or niacin)
remeron + magnesium + melatonin + lorazepam will affect 6 of these targets. Taking some omega-3 during the day can help bring down sensory hyper arousal (if this is a concern).If you don't have access to lorazpam, you might try taurine instead (taurine has a calcium antagonist, and gaba effect).
Linkadge
Posted by Babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 18:05:30
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 15:40:37
Hi, I'm not currently on Remeron but I have tried both of those without any luck
Posted by Babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 18:07:16
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 17:53:42
Wow you know a lot. I eat salmon about 3 or 4 times a week. Shouldn't that take care of my Omega 3 needs
Posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 21:33:40
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 18:05:30
Have you tried the combination (i.e. all together)?
remeron + magnesium + time release melatonin + benzo (or taurine)?
None of these work (for me) independently...
Failing this, you might ask about lithium.
Linkadge
Posted by phidippus on May 31, 2014, at 22:09:25
In reply to Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
I've suffered from insomnia all my life. Seroquel is my go to for sleep. Marijuana can help too.
Eric
Posted by Babbler20 on June 1, 2014, at 1:11:54
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by linkadge on May 31, 2014, at 21:33:40
Remeron alone does it for me. I'm just trying to a void remeron if I can because of the weight gain issue
Posted by Babbler20 on June 1, 2014, at 1:13:48
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else? » babbler20, posted by phidippus on May 31, 2014, at 22:09:25
It's the worst. Is there anything other than seroquel or weed that worked for you? Weed doesn't help me get restful sleep and makes me retarded. Seroquel isn't a good option for me either
Posted by gadchik on June 1, 2014, at 6:35:41
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Babbler20 on June 1, 2014, at 1:13:48
I would go to a sleep specialist and have a sleep study done.
Posted by linkadge on June 1, 2014, at 7:47:58
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else? » Babbler20, posted by gadchik on June 1, 2014, at 6:35:41
I haven't gained weight on remeron, but mind you I drink a lot of coffee, green tea and cocoa.
Linkadge
Posted by Hugh on June 1, 2014, at 16:05:26
In reply to Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by babbler20 on May 31, 2014, at 4:34:23
For many years, I had a choice between 7-9 hours of drugged sleep and 3-5 hours of "natural" sleep. I opted for drugged sleep much of the time. First Unisom, then Benadryl, then trazodone, Remeron, Ambien, Xanax, and finally lorazepam. I took lorazepam almost every night for three years, until I started to suffer horribly from benzo tolerance, dependence and withdrawal.
Suvorexant is a sleeping pill that has a completely different mechanism of action than anything on the market. It basically gives you narcolepsy for several hours. It was expected to be approved by the FDA last year, but the FDA told Merck to reduce the dosages they were planning to offer. Suvorexant is still expected to be approved, but it might take another year or two.
UCM765 is an experimental drug that promises to be the best sleeping pill ever, greatly increasing the time spent in deep, stage four sleep. But it might not be available for another ten years.
A few months ago I accidentally discovered that putting an electric heating pad on my back for 20-30 minutes just before I go to bed significantly improves my sleep. I recently posted this about it:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1065521.html
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2014, at 19:50:50
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by Hugh on June 1, 2014, at 16:05:26
Hugh it helps. But if I'm anxiously obsessing on something I do need benzos. The heat relaxes when reading. But still need the benzos. Some of us always will to like me. I'm accepting this. P
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on June 1, 2014, at 20:04:52
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else? » Hugh, posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2014, at 19:50:50
Could I suggest rotating sleep meds - say, take a benzo or z drug one night, then a small dose of seroquel the next night, then z benzo, then seroquel etc
This should help to avoid problams of tolorance
Posted by Babbler20 on June 2, 2014, at 0:04:11
In reply to Re: Chronic Insomnia-Anyone else?, posted by linkadge on June 1, 2014, at 7:47:58
That's awesome. You're lucky
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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