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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
I saw the pdoc yesterday and kept on him about how meds work and he finally admitted when I said I talk to people everyday that feel great on their SSRI and call them happy pills. He said that it's the power of suggestion and the placebo effect that is what causes this. So finally one admits his meds don't really work. Also said the drug companies are what is funding the government with their meds. What he didn't know was if serotonin is in the gut how does this effect serotonin in the brain. Shouldn't he know this? Phillipa
Posted by Rahilka on October 3, 2013, at 10:17:37
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
> I saw the pdoc yesterday and kept on him about how meds work and he finally admitted when I said I talk to people everyday that feel great on their SSRI and call them happy pills. He said that it's the power of suggestion and the placebo effect that is what causes this. So finally one admits his meds don't really work. Also said the drug companies are what is funding the government with their meds. What he didn't know was if serotonin is in the gut how does this effect serotonin in the brain. Shouldn't he know this? Phillipa
Verrrrry interesting, Phillipa....shocking that a doctor would admit such a thing! lol.
From what I have read, no doctor really knows how antidepressants work exactly, so I guess him not knowing how serotonin in the gut works on serotonin in the brain is not too strange.
I took Zoloft for 8 years. Although it didn't make me "happy" it did work really well for cognitive dysfunction and kept my mood from sinking to the depths of hell. It also helped my anxiety. So I think that sometimes they do work.
Weirdly enough, any attempt to go back on Zoloft brought me MASSIVE anxiety/activation even on only 12.5 mg starting dose which never happened the first time I took it. I don't understand this.
Posted by SLS on October 3, 2013, at 11:10:47
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Rahilka on October 3, 2013, at 10:17:37
> Weirdly enough, any attempt to go back on Zoloft brought me MASSIVE anxiety/activation even on only 12.5 mg starting dose which never happened the first time I took it. I don't understand this.
Chronic residual (irreversible?) SSRI-induced serotonin autoreceptor downregulation?
My first thought.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 3, 2013, at 11:15:21
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
If he admitted to something, does that mean that he had been hiding it all along?
Is he admitting this on behalf of all of medicine or would he also admit that he speaks only for himself?
Do you believe him?
Sad.
- Scott
Posted by gadchik on October 3, 2013, at 14:38:13
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
I never ask dr.s anything, I prefer to research things on my own. I do listen to what the dr has to say and like to hear their opinions on diff meds, etc. P, you are very curious. You wouldve made an excellent scientist, testing substances, seeing how diff things affect one's mind. I do believe the mind has much power to enhance or negate a drug's effects.And have u seen the research on how meditation affects a person's brain? I am going to start doing it and also juicing. We get one life, and I want to have a good one : ) I tried a wheat grass shot at an organic juice bar in town, and it really had a positive effect on me!
Posted by joef on October 3, 2013, at 15:51:28
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on October 3, 2013, at 14:38:13
then why does he keep giving you luvox phillipa and do you believe him?
Posted by linkadge on October 3, 2013, at 17:23:02
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by joef on October 3, 2013, at 15:51:28
Serotonin exists in many different areas of the body brain, heart, gut etc. It serves different functions in different areas. However, SSRIs are not selective to serotonin receptors in the brain. They affect the reuptake of serotonin in all areas of the body. This likely mediates certain side effects associated with the drugs.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 21:05:43
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by linkadge on October 3, 2013, at 17:23:02
Link what is a good search to find the answers to this?
Posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 21:07:54
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 3, 2013, at 11:15:21
Oh I do believe him. Why? When questioning the people I know on them that all state that their circumstances in life have now changed. It's become habit for them same as luvox for me which almost nothing at 25mg now. I need to do more research. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 21:12:34
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on October 3, 2013, at 14:38:13
When I graduated from RN school the teacher's said that I asked so many questions they didn't know the answers to they had to look them up. They said I kept them on their toes. I do think with all the researching I did with medical malpractice and testifying in court. That I began to love to research. I agree since I was the first in psych to ask the pdocs why a good majority of the patients had thyroid issues. As I researched all the patients charts at the beginning of my shift. I figured I'm the charge RN so I better know my patients. Google is my friend. P
Posted by SLS on October 3, 2013, at 21:34:26
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 21:07:54
> Oh I do believe him. Why? When questioning the people I know on them that all state that their circumstances in life have now changed. It's become habit for them same as luvox for me which almost nothing at 25mg now. I need to do more research. Phillipa
Let me know what you come up with.
- Scott
Posted by Fiat500 on October 4, 2013, at 15:33:02
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
Such a good point that he makes and I am sure that there is a lot of truth to what he says. However there are 8 billion brains on this planet none of which are identical and none would react the same to medication. I think it might be slightly an over generalization and a blanket statement to say that ssri's are placebo. As much as I hate to be on zoloft due to the sweating side effect, I am very thankful that it is there to help me with my OCD and clinical depression.
Posted by baseball55 on October 4, 2013, at 20:04:35
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Fiat500 on October 4, 2013, at 15:33:02
Drug companies and the FDA and researchers do conduct regular studies of this. Most AD's are better than placebos at reducing depressive symptoms and the difference is statistically significant but not that large.
There's a psychiatrist whose name I can't remember right now who recently wrote a book called "Unhinged" which was very critical of psych meds.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 12, 2013, at 16:39:01
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
>I saw the pdoc yesterday and kept on him about how meds work and he finally admitted when I said I talk to people everyday that feel great on their SSRI and call them happy pills. He said that it's the power of suggestion and the placebo effect that is what causes this.
It's not always anything to do with the placebo effect. In the majority of people, depressive symptoms fluctuate; sometimes according to circumstances but often for no identifiable reason. It's easy to attribute improvements to meds which would have occurred in their absence.
>So finally one admits his meds don't really work.
Well not really. By the sound of it, he just said that some people, particularly people who've had one or two episodes of mild depression, might not actually need the meds to which they attribute their recovery. Of course, stopping the meds has risks too.
Other people do need their meds. YMMV.
Posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 23:02:45
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
> I saw the pdoc yesterday and kept on him about how meds work and he finally admitted when I said I talk to people everyday that feel great on their SSRI and call them happy pills. He said that it's the power of suggestion and the placebo effect that is what causes this. So finally one admits his meds don't really work. Also said the drug companies are what is funding the government with their meds. What he didn't know was if serotonin is in the gut how does this effect serotonin in the brain. Shouldn't he know this? Phillipa
I have tried every antidepressant available and I've never felt any relief. If anything, I'm worse. It didn't hit me until the other day when I was in a group therapy session that maybe we have all been fooled. Every person in the room had tried multiple antidepressants over the years and they never got better. This 20/20 documentary confirms my suspicion; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zihdr36WVi4
Posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 23:05:20
In reply to Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2013, at 10:05:59
> I saw the pdoc yesterday and kept on him about how meds work and he finally admitted when I said I talk to people everyday that feel great on their SSRI and call them happy pills. He said that it's the power of suggestion and the placebo effect that is what causes this. So finally one admits his meds don't really work. Also said the drug companies are what is funding the government with their meds. What he didn't know was if serotonin is in the gut how does this effect serotonin in the brain. Shouldn't he know this? Phillipa
I have tried every antidepressant available and I've never felt any relief. If anything, I'm worse. It didn't hit me until the other day when I was in a group therapy session that maybe we have all been fooled. Every person in the room had tried multiple antidepressants over the years and they never got better. This 60 minutes confirms my suspicion; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zihdr36WVi4
Posted by Rahilka on October 19, 2013, at 23:42:06
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » Rahilka, posted by SLS on October 3, 2013, at 11:10:47
> Chronic residual (irreversible?) SSRI-induced serotonin autoreceptor downregulation?
>
> My first thought.
>
>
> - ScottScott - that is a very good theory. I can see that being true, although hopefully it's not, since there is a possibility that I will try (again) to go back on Zoloft in the future if what I am on now doesn't work out/augmenting it doesn't work out either.
Also, I have managed to ramp up on other SSRIs/SNRIs since retrialing the Zoloft and didn't experience the same level of agitation, so somehow it may just be a Zoloft thing. I think I remember reading somewhere about a "kindling effect"...ever heard of it?
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2013, at 12:02:24
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec, posted by Rahilka on October 19, 2013, at 23:42:06
> > Chronic residual (irreversible?) SSRI-induced serotonin autoreceptor downregulation?
> >
> > My first thought.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott - that is a very good theory. I can see that being true, although hopefully it's not, since there is a possibility that I will try (again) to go back on Zoloft in the future if what I am on now doesn't work out/augmenting it doesn't work out either.
>
> Also, I have managed to ramp up on other SSRIs/SNRIs since retrialing the Zoloft and didn't experience the same level of agitation, so somehow it may just be a Zoloft thing. I think I remember reading somewhere about a "kindling effect"...ever heard of it?Yes, I am very familiar with kindling. I was a patient at the NIH where Robert Post was the department head of biological psychiatry.
I wish you luck with your new treatment regime.
Hideous illness.
- Scott
Posted by Rahilka on October 21, 2013, at 22:47:33
In reply to Re: Pdoc Admitted that SSRI's + LIke are Placebo Effec » Rahilka, posted by SLS on October 20, 2013, at 12:02:24
> Yes, I am very familiar with kindling. I was a patient at the NIH where Robert Post was the department head of biological psychiatry.
>
> I wish you luck with your new treatment regime.
>
> Hideous illness.
>
>
> - ScottWow, small world that I should bring that up when you have been under his care. I am very sorry to hear that you got to the state where you needed to be hospitalized, but I am glad that it sounds like you got some of the best help around at the NIH. I just came out of a week-long (should have been longer but I don't have health insurance so they got rid of me real quick) hospitalization a couple months ago myself. Unfortunately the medication they put me on didn't work so here we go again.
Thank you for your well wishes. Today has been a particularly bad day. I don't know what condition(s) you suffer from, but have you ever had those days where it seems like everyone around you seems so normal, and it makes you wonder if you're just imagining everything? Or, people make you feel like you're just imagining everything? Then you start questioning yourself even though you know in the depths of your soul that you aren't just imagining the pain in your heart, but the constant self-doubt makes you feel confused, exhausted, and ashamed?
Today is one of those days for me.
Anyway - thanks again, Scott.
This is the end of the thread.
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