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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:04:11
QUESTION 1
Basically, on Thursday, Friday both @ night I've had high levels of anxiety (very jittery, I want to like run, feel very nervous) along with Saturday morning (today).
Nardil has controlled my anxiety and depression to a mild level for 10 weeks. Dosage was..
45 mg 6.5 weeks.
60 mg 3.5 weeks.** At 60 mg I almost needed a cathadar and was getting bad mood swings, but my anxiety was still good.
I stopped 60 mg 6 days ago, and am on 45 mg again. On 45 mg I have NO side effects + it works BETTER than 60 mg.
I feel very anxious though after 5-6 days (my 60 mg side effects haven't gone away yet..insomnia/urinary).
Is it the 60 mg that is doing this? Has Nardil stopped working somehow? I've been doing a LOT of work lately, but its been going on for 4-5 weeks, maybe it's that?
Can someone help me figure out why I have this crazy anxiety?? I didn't even have it like this when I was OFF nardil..
QUESTION 2
Nardil @ 45 mg BEFORE I moved up to 60 mg was working on my depression/anxiety to the point where it reduced all symptoms by 60-70%.
I'm letting myself level out at 45 mg, then I'm augmenting.
I'm buying drugs online.
I have these choices...
Lyrica, Nortryptiline, Amitryptiline, Lamictal, Wellbutrin.
Which one should I try first? I've researched them all and they should be safe enough with Nardil. Amitryptiline is on the edge though.
TY guys!
Posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:05:41
In reply to Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:04:11
"On 45 mg I have NO side effects + it works BETTER than 60 mg."
This is meant to mean..
On 45 mg BEFORE I SWITCHED TO 60 MG, I had no side effects + it worked better than 60 mg.
Posted by Chris O on September 15, 2012, at 19:31:29
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:05:41
I don't have a solution to your anxiety issue. If a lower dose is better, by all means, you should stay on it. I do have a couple of questions though, as I am getting ready to start Nardil:
* You mentioned almost needing at cathader. Was that from the Nardil?
* What are the main side effects you experience on Nardil?
* Any issues with dietary restrictions so far?Just curious.
Thanks,
Chris
Posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 21:13:39
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Chris O on September 15, 2012, at 19:31:29
Yeah.
Nardil causes massive urinary retention. But it depends what level it starts for you. For me it's 60-75 mg.
On 45 mg I have no side effects except constipation.
I have no restrictions. I eat whatever I want.
Posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2012, at 23:49:38
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 21:13:39
I haven't taken nardil self but there are dietary restrictions with an MAOI. Please Ask or google Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 16, 2012, at 1:02:44
In reply to Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:04:11
nortriptyline would be my pick, but why get the drugs off line - I think mixing an MAOI and a tricyclic should be done under your doctors supervision
Posted by gilmourr on September 16, 2012, at 5:21:49
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 16, 2012, at 1:02:44
No doctor will prescribe me it in Canada.
I've been to 2 psychiatrists and my GP and they all said no.
It is completely safe, I have current 2006/2007 journals that say nortryp/amitryp are safe as they don't bind to serotonin receptors as well as imip and clomip do.
I've lost faith in doctors as I know that 100% they are not prescribing me anything because of their self-interest to not do anything past conservative options. They get no reward in doing so, so why do it?
BTW, I'm looking for websites to order from. I have 2 that are good, but I'm looking to buy stelazine as well. I want to use 1 mg/daily in adjunct.
Posted by gilmourr on September 16, 2012, at 5:25:27
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2012, at 23:49:38
> I haven't taken nardil self but there are dietary restrictions with an MAOI. Please Ask or google Phillipa
Not sure what you mean by this. I was asking why I have this random anxiety out of nowhere after being completely well on Nardil for 10-11 weeks.
MAOI dietary restrictions are just for tyramine and it elevating NE, causing BP spikes and strokes. It wouldn't cause my anxiety.
Especially when my BP yesterday was 115/75. My baseline is 140/95, Nardil does a great job lowering my BP!
Posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2012, at 20:51:39
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 16, 2012, at 5:25:27
Didn't you post that at 60mg of nardil you were worse and lowered the dose? So if you are still on nardil dietary restrictions do apply. As for the anxiety. Could it be lowering the dose? Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 16, 2012, at 21:31:53
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2012, at 20:51:39
Well, whle i see your point about overly conservative doctors, combining an MAOI and a tricyclic isnt somthing to be done your self. For one thing, you'll need to start off both drugs at low doese and slowly increase to the theraputic range. Be extreamly careful whatever you decide to do.
As for the anxiety, could you ask you doctor for a benzo to take as needed (say 0.5mg of Xanax or 5mg of Valium prn)
Posted by phidippus on September 16, 2012, at 22:43:00
In reply to Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 15, 2012, at 19:04:11
Amitryptaline is contraindicated with MAOIs. No.
What is your goal?
Eric
Posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 1:58:42
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by phidippus on September 16, 2012, at 22:43:00
Amitryptiline is borderline alright with MAOI's.
A few journals I read all confirmed it. They all said nortryptiline is safe as well and completely stops a tyramine reaction. I'm starting at 25 mg with my 45 mg Nardil and going up. My BP is low so there's no issue. And it's not giving me SS, so why is everyone so worried?
Imipramine+ clomipramine are the only ones you can't combine because it's like cough syrup and nardil. It'll give you SS.
My goal is to get rid of my mild-moderate depression and mild anxiety (sometimes it creates nausea).
Which is why I want to augment Nardil with nortryp, and then if that helps I'll add stelazine at 1-2 mg/daily. I found one site that has it :)
Screw doctors. They don't know how to supervise sh*t. I'm tired of their b*llsh*t. Told me if I wanted to kill myself take Nardil. Well here I am, and I'm the best I've ever been. So they can suck it.
Posted by Chris O on September 17, 2012, at 9:27:52
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 1:58:42
"Screw doctors. They don't know how to supervise sh*t. I'm tired of their b*llsh*t. Told me if I wanted to kill myself take Nardil. Well here I am, and I'm the best I've ever been. So they can suck it."
God, I completely feel you on this sentiment. I've heard so many weird statements from psychiatrists I've seen. It makes relying on them a real treat, a real joy, with hearty sarcasm intended. I guess like all of us, they are limited by their own life experiences and biology. It just p*sses me off that I have a condition which requires me to submit to their authority.
Posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:03:31
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Chris O on September 17, 2012, at 9:27:52
Yep!
So anyone else? Suggest anything and I'll add it on to Nardil!
Posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:11:24
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Chris O on September 17, 2012, at 9:27:52
This is why I can't get doctors to prescribe me sh*t.
Read this. Dumb *ss lady combined 40 mg parnate with 150 mg clomipramine,oxazepam, trazodone etc.
What a retard. Cases like this come up and doctors are like WELL THEN NO TCA'S EVER WITH MAOI's. Idiots don't realize clomipramine is like the strongest serotonin med on the market. With parnate, no wonder.
Stupid patient.
Posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 15:29:39
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:11:24
A lot of people combine Nortryptaline with MAOIs without a problem.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 15:30:39
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:03:31
What for? Anxiety? Depression?
Eric
Posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 15:31:59
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by Chris O on September 17, 2012, at 9:27:52
I love my psychiatrist.
Eric
Posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:50:21
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » Chris O, posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 15:31:59
For depression (moderate-mild left overs after using Nardil 45 to get it down from severe).
My anxiety is pretty damn good, but it sparks up at times when I work hard.. and I'm on track for a CPA designation so I kind of need to be stable.
I also have weird issues with being trapped, its kind of like a panic thing. I don't like being in exam rooms, restaurants (almost fine with this though since my anxiety is better), speeches/interviews/presentations.
I'm a very social, funny, outgoing guy so I'm not nervous about people. I'm nervous about being trapped for an amount of time where I can't leave. It's weird. Really stupid TBH.
Posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:51:42
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:50:21
And I have nausea that comes when I'm trapped in places like I've mentioned.
My ideal drug plan would be..
Nardil/vyvanse/nortryp and ondansetron for nausea.
Nortryp can be replaced by stelazine.
Posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 16:20:01
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 1:58:42
Why Stelazine? Why not Klonopin or another long lasting benzo?
Eric
Posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 16:26:35
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 17, 2012, at 15:50:21
>I also have weird issues with being trapped, its >kind of like a panic thing...I'm nervous about >being trapped for an amount of time where I can't >leave. It's weird. Really stupid TBH.
The only way to treat these kind of phobic issues is through therapy, in particular ERP.
Eric
Posted by gilmourr on September 18, 2012, at 1:16:03
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by phidippus on September 17, 2012, at 16:26:35
Benzo's are seriously horrible for you. Nobody should be on them as they make you dumb and cause protracted withdrawal when you've been on them for too long.
They can seriously mess you up. It's like have 2-3 beers a day if you're pounding 2 mg a day.
As for therapy.. I don't believe that at all. I went back to work/school on meds, I did it all, but I still felt extremely nauseas and my anxiety was going hard.
When you achieve remission, you don't have these thoughts. It's not like I've had these phobias my entire life. They're irrational based on the nausea/anxiety I still live with currently.
I honestly believe therapy is a waste unless it's PTSD or situational anxiety/depression. Mine came out of NOWHERE.
Posted by phidippus on September 18, 2012, at 17:42:57
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help., posted by gilmourr on September 18, 2012, at 1:16:03
>Mine came out of NOWHERE.
Doesn't matter where they came from. A litle ERP can go a long way toward reducing these kinds of fears.
Eric
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 1:49:37
In reply to Re: Nardil, week 10 anxiety. Why? + augment help. » gilmourr, posted by phidippus on September 18, 2012, at 17:42:57
K, back to the ORIGINAL question.
Originally it took like 30 days being on 45 mg (1st time) to get 60% reduction in anxiety/depression.
I was on 45 mg for 8 weeks. Then moved to 60 mg for 3 weeks. Now I'm back on 45 mg (9th day).
My anxiety is NOT as good as before, it's only like a 40% reduction, and my depression is the same. I'm freaking pissed. How long will my body adjust from 60 to 45 mg!!!!! I WAS ONLY ON 60 MG FOR 3 WEEKS. GOD
This is the end of the thread.
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