![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 6:28:26
In reply to Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 24, 2012, at 22:45:16
> I'm severely agoraphobic. Nardil has failed me. I've been on almost everything else.
>
> What am I supposed to do now? Live my life in this prison? ECT? Any ideas?
Was Nardil at all helpful?Are panic attacks part of your condition?
Have you tried imipramine?
It will be difficult for people to help you without knowing more about your treatment history.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 25, 2012, at 7:19:34
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left » Lepus, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 6:28:26
> > I'm severely agoraphobic. Nardil has failed me. I've been on almost everything else.
> >
> > What am I supposed to do now? Live my life in this prison? ECT? Any ideas?
>
>
> Was Nardil at all helpful?
>
> Are panic attacks part of your condition?
>
> Have you tried imipramine?
>
> It will be difficult for people to help you without knowing more about your treatment history.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote the above.
Now I am unsure of what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean here and post my response to you.
A. What is it that you want to know, if anything, by asking the member if Imipramine was taken?
AA. Is it possible that if more information about the treatment history of the innitiator of this thread was given here, that all the other members could have the opportunity to tell the member to take another drug?
B. Could what the other members post to the innitator cause the death of the innitiator?
C. Could it be possible that the innitiator of this thread is a {less-confident} person and if other drugs are suggested to take that the member could go out and get the drug(s), via another method other than being prescribed, and then die from the drug itself or from a combination of the suggested drug taken with another drug?
D. If you suggest to the member to take another drug, is it possible for the death of the member here because of the suggesting to take another drug, and if so would you accept the responsibility and liability for their death, if they did die as a result of thinking that a drug to take that is suggested here is {supportive}?
E. The innitiator's history states that he/she has been on almost all drugs. Are you aware of the chemical constituants of imipramine and how it was made and by who and for what?
F. If Imipramine could cause death, (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 9:26:39
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left » Lepus, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 6:28:26
Natdil was mildly helpful. It seems I can't go above 30mgs though without getting major stomach problems.
Any drug that works strongly on GABA seems to help me.
I'm on Klonopin, Risperdal and Nardil currently. I have been on just about every SSRI and SNRI. I've been on most anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers.
I just don't think there is anything left.
Sorry I didn't add more detail. I've posted here quite a bit over the years and assumed people maybe knew me, which was ridiculous I realize. I was very upset and I still am. My life is truly awful these days and I'm getting older and older and watching all my dreams die and my friends disappear.
Posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 9:29:18
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left » Lepus, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 6:28:26
And yes, I have been on imipramine. It was a miracle drug for me, as was Klonopin.
It seems neither drug works for me anymore though.
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 9:29:35
In reply to Lou's request-izdairehydogdorihndhahouz? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on August 25, 2012, at 7:19:34
Imipramine has been used for years to treat panic attacks with agoraphobia with great success.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7726306
Many of our most important drugs from all fields of medicine become toxic if the amount taken is too high. At dosages of 300 mg/day and below, imipramine is usually not dangerous. Most people take 150 - 200 mg/day. It depends upon the skill of the physician to titrate the dosage clinically to find the optimal minimum effective dosage. Since imipramine is cardiotoxic, diagnostic tests (ECG) are sometimes used to screen for dangerous effects like heart bundle-branch block.
Peanuts can kill in miniscule amounts.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 9:33:03
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 9:26:39
> I was very upset and I still am. My life is truly awful these days and I'm getting older and older and watching all my dreams die and my friends disappear.
I understand completely.
:-(
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 9:44:08
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 9:29:18
> And yes, I have been on imipramine. It was a miracle drug for me, as was Klonopin.
>
> It seems neither drug works for me anymore though.
I wish I knew more about agoraphobia to be able to help you.Add Lyrica (pregabalin)?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2012, at 10:04:37
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left » Lepus, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 9:44:08
Agoraphobia I am familiar with was told to make sure I get out daily and be around people which I do. I have problems being in anothers home or anywhere I feel trapped kid of reverse agoraphobia. I take meds at night but nothing during the day. I figure the 7.5mg of valium should still be working. Not a good idea to keep upping benzos. CBT is what more less stressed the getting out which can at times be exhausting. I also take 50mg of luvox and .5mg of xanax and 2.5mg of lexapro all at night. And synthrod as have hasimotos thyroiditis. My problems started with the thyroid issue. Have you have yours checked? Phillipa
Posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 10:34:43
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left » Lepus, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 9:44:08
That might work. I'm sorry you know how I feel. :/
Thanks for the help!
Posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 10:37:38
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2012, at 10:04:37
Yes, my thyroid has been checked. I'm hypo actually and on meds for it.
I guess maybe meds aren't going to help me. I've called a psychologist who specializes in a form of therapy I haven't had. He hasn't called back yet though. But maybe therapy is my only hope.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 25, 2012, at 12:48:48
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 10:37:38
> Yes, my thyroid has been checked. I'm hypo actually and on meds for it.
>
> I guess maybe meds aren't going to help me. I've called a psychologist who specializes in a form of therapy I haven't had. He hasn't called back yet though. But maybe therapy is my only hope.Lepus,
You wrote,[...meds arn't going to help me...maybe therapy is my only hope...].
Maybe not? You see, it is plainly visible to me what could lead you out of the hell that you describe here. You see, I see you being drawn to a restoration as to when you were a little child, free from addiction and depression. And this drawing I see like a net cast into the sea as all humanity I see in that net. And when you are drawn to the shore, out of the sea, you could be restored to peace and joy. I am prohibited from posting here how I know that due to prohibitions posted to me by Mr Hsiung. But if you start with a therapist, they could email me and I could reveal to him/her how this restoration could be effected in you so that you could be a new creature without the hell that you describe here.
Lou
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 25, 2012, at 19:42:23
In reply to Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 24, 2012, at 22:45:16
Try Nardil plus nortriptyline plus a benzodiazepine
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 25, 2012, at 20:00:47
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 25, 2012, at 19:42:23
> Try Nardil plus nortriptyline plus a benzodiazepine
j_i_a,
You wrote for the mamber here to,[..try Nardil plus nortriptylene plus a benzodiazepine...].
Now let us reason together. How can anyone try these drugs. Well, they could go to their prescriber and say that a person on "Dr Bob's" said for me to try those drugs. Now the prescriber has been working a plan that he/she had followed from, I guess, a great study of psychotropic drugs. So could not the prescriber feel a little bit funny, and have a feeling inside, that he/she is either incompetent or negligent or something else now that his/her client has taken the suggestion of a person on "Dr Bob's" to him/her?
But there is a greater danger here IMHO. You see, the {less-confident} member could take your suggestion and think that it is OK to take those drugs, for you said to try them. They could think that it is safe to do so and find the drugs outside of going to a prescriber to get them. They could have shelved them or they could get them from mommy's medicine bag, or from a friend, or buy them on the street. This could then cause their death.
Would you be willing to take the responsibility and the liability if a person dies from these drugs and it found that their death was caused by them thinking that what you wrote is a safe thing to do?
Lou
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 21:00:06
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 25, 2012, at 19:42:23
> Try Nardil plus nortriptyline plus a benzodiazepine
That's a great suggestion. The only drawback is that it can be difficult to establish the addition of nortriptyline, as side effects can be limiting. I had a difficult time with hypotension and urinary retention. However, Florinef and Urecholine can be used to treat those side effects respectively.
- Scott
Posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 22:16:11
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 25, 2012, at 19:42:23
Nortriptyline? I can take that? I will have to look into it.
I'm already on a benzo - Klonopin at 1mg 3x a day.
Thanks for the idea!
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on August 26, 2012, at 1:35:48
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 22:16:11
You can take them together, but you need to be careful, as side effects can appear.
Generaly a doctor will start at a low dose and build up slowly.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 4:23:09
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 25, 2012, at 22:16:11
> Nortriptyline? I can take that? I will have to look into it.
>
> I'm already on a benzo - Klonopin at 1mg 3x a day.
>
> Thanks for the idea!Friends,
You can read the above and see the influence this site could have in contributing to the thinking that taking psychotropic drugs that could alter the mind and induce a life-ruining condition or death or even cause one to think of killing themselves or others is {supportive}. This is because Mr. Hsiung states that support takes precedence and thearfore readers like the {less-confident} member could act on the suggestion to take the drugs suggested here by means other than them being prescribed to them although psychiatrists can legally prescribe an addictive drug and drugs together that could kill you.
But I say to you out there that are following this site that there is such a great danger to your health and life from taking these drugs suggested here by members, members that (redacted by respondent) and thearfore state that what "works" for them does not mean that it will work for you, whatever "works" could mean.
Now my warning here is to save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition. My warning is also to the mothers and the fathers that are swayed by the advertising or by school authorities to drug your son , your daughter by saying to you that the druggin' will help them in school.
Now here is just one aspect of takimg two of these drugs together. One aspect alone that could alert you to the caliber of dissaster that is indicated by the taking of just two of these drugs together. Is that risk worth a life time of diabetes and possible blindness or amputations and death from diabetes? And this is just one of the life-ruining conditions out there for you that are going to take these drugs on the basis that someone here states that they could be taken together. Is that someone knowing what is at the end of the road for those that take those drugs? Do you know that those drugs together could cause your CNS to be depressed and respiratioon to be depressed and that death could happen? What benefit outweighs that risk? Could there be another way other than taking psychotropic drugs that have chemical constituants that were used for mass-murder?
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/nortriptylene-hydrochloride-and-klonopin/diabetes-mellitus
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 4:55:17
In reply to Lou's warning-whtbhenefit? » Lepus, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 4:23:09
> > Nortriptyline? I can take that? I will have to look into it.
> >
> > I'm already on a benzo - Klonopin at 1mg 3x a day.
> >
> > Thanks for the idea!
>
> Friends,
> You can read the above and see the influence this site could have in contributing to the thinking that taking psychotropic drugs that could alter the mind and induce a life-ruining condition or death or even cause one to think of killing themselves or others is {supportive}. This is because Mr. Hsiung states that support takes precedence and thearfore readers like the {less-confident} member could act on the suggestion to take the drugs suggested here by means other than them being prescribed to them although psychiatrists can legally prescribe an addictive drug and drugs together that could kill you.
> But I say to you out there that are following this site that there is such a great danger to your health and life from taking these drugs suggested here by members, members that (redacted by respondent) and thearfore state that what "works" for them does not mean that it will work for you, whatever "works" could mean.
> Now my warning here is to save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition. My warning is also to the mothers and the fathers that are swayed by the advertising or by school authorities to drug your son , your daughter by saying to you that the druggin' will help them in school.
> Now here is just one aspect of takimg two of these drugs together. One aspect alone that could alert you to the caliber of dissaster that is indicated by the taking of just two of these drugs together. Is that risk worth a life time of diabetes and possible blindness or amputations and death from diabetes? And this is just one of the life-ruining conditions out there for you that are going to take these drugs on the basis that someone here states that they could be taken together. Is that someone knowing what is at the end of the road for those that take those drugs? Do you know that those drugs together could cause your CNS to be depressed and respiratioon to be depressed and that death could happen? What benefit outweighs that risk? Could there be another way other than taking psychotropic drugs that have chemical constituants that were used for mass-murder?
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/nortriptylene-hydrochloride-and-klonopin/diabetes-mellituscorrected:
http://www.ehealthme.com/nortriptyline-hydrochloride-and-klonopin/diabetes-mellitus
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 10:05:44
In reply to Re: Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by SLS on August 25, 2012, at 21:00:06
> > Try Nardil plus nortriptyline plus a benzodiazepine
>
> That's a great suggestion. The only drawback is that it can be difficult to establish the addition of nortriptyline, as side effects can be limiting. I had a difficult time with hypotension and urinary retention. However, Florinef and Urecholine can be used to treat those side effects respectively.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...That's a great suggestion (to take Nardil, Nortriptyline and a benzodiazepine)...].
My concerns here are that the combination of those drugs has the potential to induce life-ruining conditions or death. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to see what your rationale(s) could be for stateing here what you have
A. What criteria do you use, if any, to state that the suggestion to take those drugs is {a great suggestion}?
B. Now if a {less-confident} member here sees that you state that the suggestion is great, I think that there could be the potential for that type of person to go out and try to find those drugs to take somehow. I base this on that this site is for support and support takes precedence, and that Mr. Hsiung has made a rule concerning {less-confident} members to consider them. So I think that some others could die as a result of thinking that a member such as yourself wrote that the suggestion to take those drugs is great, and they took the drugs thinking that there is a reccomendation from you, and support takes precedence so one could think that your reccomendation of being great is supportive, and died from respiratory depression or some other cause that could be induced by the drugs. So this brings up a situation where I am requesting that you post here your rationale(s) and a citation to show that the combination of the drugs could not kill someone that takes them. If you could post that, if there is a citation that states that, then I could further respond to you.
C. You also posted here that the {only} drawback is...
I am concerned that the {less-confident} member could take that as being supportive and think that, lets say, serotonin syndrome could not be a drawback, or CNS depression could not be a drawback, or diabetes could not be a drawback, or addiction could not be a drawback, or suicide thinking could not be a drawback ect, ect.
So my request here to you is could you post a citation here that substantiates the claim that you posted? If you could, then I could respond to you. If you could not, then I think that could go a long way to help the {less-confident} member, or even the confident and more-confident members, to make a more informed decision as to take the combination of drugs that you say is a great suggestion, or not to take them. By accommodating my request, if you do so, I think that lives could be saved, life-ruining conditions could be avoided and addiction could be avoided, which I think could be good for this community as a whole.
Lou
Posted by SLS on August 26, 2012, at 11:09:32
In reply to Lou's request-krduhbillehty » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 10:05:44
I like this one. Although the article is old, it probably includes more cases than any other study you will find. It was written at a time before SSRIs became available, and MAOIs and tricyclics were about the only antidepressants available. Doctors at the time were much more informed and comfortable with their use than today. Combining MAOIs and tricyclics were not strictly forbidden. My first introduction to this treatment modality occurred in 1983. It was then that my doctors at Columbia treated me with a combination of Nardil and amitriptyline. I have been prescribed tricyclics with MAOIs on and off for the last 30 years without incident. Recommendations for this treatment were made to me by doctors at Columbia, NYU, NIMH, Beth Israel, Harvard, and Princeton.
- Scott
--------------------------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/942286
"Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1976 Jul;33(7):828-30.
Combining tricyclic and monoamine oxidase inhibitor antidepressants.
Spiker DG, Pugh DD.
AbstractThe charts of 150 inpatients and 51 outpatients treated with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI)-tricyclic antidepressant combination were reviewed. The incidence and severity of side effects among the patients on the combined regimen were essentially the same as those seen in the control groups. There were no deaths or strokes resulting from use of this regimen. The most frequent troublesome side effect was orthostatic hypotension. We conclude that the use of a MAOI-tricyclic combination in oral therapeutic doses is safe. However, the efficacy of this combination has not yet been proved, and it may be particularly toxic if taken in an overdose."
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 12:05:24
In reply to Re: Lou's request-krduhbillehty » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on August 26, 2012, at 11:09:32
> I like this one. Although the article is old, it probably includes more cases than any other study you will find. It was written at a time before SSRIs became available, and MAOIs and tricyclics were about the only antidepressants available. Doctors at the time were much more informed and comfortable with their use than today. Combining MAOIs and tricyclics were not strictly forbidden. My first introduction to this treatment modality occurred in 1983. It was then that my doctors at Columbia treated me with a combination of Nardil and amitriptyline. I have been prescribed tricyclics with MAOIs on and off for the last 30 years without incident. Recommendations for this treatment were made to me by doctors at Columbia, NYU, NIMH, Beth Israel, Harvard, and Princeton.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> --------------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/942286
>
>
> "Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1976 Jul;33(7):828-30.
> Combining tricyclic and monoamine oxidase inhibitor antidepressants.
> Spiker DG, Pugh DD.
> Abstract
>
> The charts of 150 inpatients and 51 outpatients treated with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI)-tricyclic antidepressant combination were reviewed. The incidence and severity of side effects among the patients on the combined regimen were essentially the same as those seen in the control groups. There were no deaths or strokes resulting from use of this regimen. The most frequent troublesome side effect was orthostatic hypotension. We conclude that the use of a MAOI-tricyclic combination in oral therapeutic doses is safe. However, the efficacy of this combination has not yet been proved, and it may be particularly toxic if taken in an overdose."Friends,
There has been an ongoing unfolding of knowlege concerning the interactions of psychotropic drugs that supercede old studies going back 50 years or so ago. Back then, it is been reported that "studies" were submitted to the research periodicals and such by throwing out studies that showed otherwise as to what wanted to be shown, and keeping "studies" that could show what was wanted to be shown. There have been facts arising that refute old studies, just like old studies by tobacco companies that they said showed that tobacco smoking was safe and did not cause cancer. Then as 50 years ran, the facts that people died from lung cancer and other cancers from smoking tobacco emerged.
I am from a school that rejects "studies" if any of the people involved have ties to the drug companies or are doctors wanting to promote the safety of psychotropic chemicals. And I also reject any "study" that has few participants and we do not know if they have cherry-picked the population for the study. I consider the real-world repoted events to be definitive , for I am in the camp that thinks that thousands and thousands of participants are needed to get clarity as to what is wanted to be known as a result of taking a drug or combination. Would it make any sense if the tobacco companies came out with a study done by people that they paid that said that tobacco is safe to smoke? And how about thalidomide? Do you know about that? If not, you could do a search,[Lou, thalidomide} and see what I posted before Mr. Hsiung made a prohibition to me that prohibited me from getting deeper into the facts concerning psychotropic drugs.
But be advised that the subject here is not just taking Nardil with the tricyclic, but also the two with a benzodiazepiene and a specific tricyclic, Nortriptyline, which takes the equation into a deeper realm of interactions that could cause addiction, death and life-ruining conditions such as diabetes. There is the potential of death when the two are taken together that could have been unbeknownst to those conducting the study cited here from 50 years or so ago.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/nortriptyline-hydrochloride-and-nardil/cardio-respiratory-arrest
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 12:23:29
In reply to Lou's reply-tymhzrhn » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 12:05:24
> > I like this one. Although the article is old, it probably includes more cases than any other study you will find. It was written at a time before SSRIs became available, and MAOIs and tricyclics were about the only antidepressants available. Doctors at the time were much more informed and comfortable with their use than today. Combining MAOIs and tricyclics were not strictly forbidden. My first introduction to this treatment modality occurred in 1983. It was then that my doctors at Columbia treated me with a combination of Nardil and amitriptyline. I have been prescribed tricyclics with MAOIs on and off for the last 30 years without incident. Recommendations for this treatment were made to me by doctors at Columbia, NYU, NIMH, Beth Israel, Harvard, and Princeton.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/942286
> >
> >
> > "Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1976 Jul;33(7):828-30.
> > Combining tricyclic and monoamine oxidase inhibitor antidepressants.
> > Spiker DG, Pugh DD.
> > Abstract
> >
> > The charts of 150 inpatients and 51 outpatients treated with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI)-tricyclic antidepressant combination were reviewed. The incidence and severity of side effects among the patients on the combined regimen were essentially the same as those seen in the control groups. There were no deaths or strokes resulting from use of this regimen. The most frequent troublesome side effect was orthostatic hypotension. We conclude that the use of a MAOI-tricyclic combination in oral therapeutic doses is safe. However, the efficacy of this combination has not yet been proved, and it may be particularly toxic if taken in an overdose."
>
> Friends,
> There has been an ongoing unfolding of knowlege concerning the interactions of psychotropic drugs that supercede old studies going back 50 years or so ago. Back then, it is been reported that "studies" were submitted to the research periodicals and such by throwing out studies that showed otherwise as to what wanted to be shown, and keeping "studies" that could show what was wanted to be shown. There have been facts arising that refute old studies, just like old studies by tobacco companies that they said showed that tobacco smoking was safe and did not cause cancer. Then as 50 years ran, the facts that people died from lung cancer and other cancers from smoking tobacco emerged.
> I am from a school that rejects "studies" if any of the people involved have ties to the drug companies or are doctors wanting to promote the safety of psychotropic chemicals. And I also reject any "study" that has few participants and we do not know if they have cherry-picked the population for the study. I consider the real-world repoted events to be definitive , for I am in the camp that thinks that thousands and thousands of participants are needed to get clarity as to what is wanted to be known as a result of taking a drug or combination. Would it make any sense if the tobacco companies came out with a study done by people that they paid that said that tobacco is safe to smoke? And how about thalidomide? Do you know about that? If not, you could do a search,[Lou, thalidomide} and see what I posted before Mr. Hsiung made a prohibition to me that prohibited me from getting deeper into the facts concerning psychotropic drugs.
> But be advised that the subject here is not just taking Nardil with the tricyclic, but also the two with a benzodiazepiene and a specific tricyclic, Nortriptyline, which takes the equation into a deeper realm of interactions that could cause addiction, death and life-ruining conditions such as diabetes. There is the potential of death when the two are taken together that could have been unbeknownst to those conducting the study cited here from 50 years or so ago.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/nortriptyline-hydrochloride-and-nardil/cardio-respiratory-arrest
>
Friends,
The subject of crdibility in psychiatry and psychotropic drugs is a decision that I would like for you to make by having more information to use to make that decision. You see, death can be a result of taking psychotropic drugs, and I am prohibited here by Mr Hsiung from posting what could show the relationship of psychiatry and (redacted by respondent). But is it not enough that 42,000 people died last year from psychotropic drugs and that maybe 150 died from peanuts? And the people that died from peanuts died because they had an allergic reaction that some people have. There are people that could die from a bee sting or eating shellfish. I do not think that the same thing is comparable to taking psytchotropic drugs because people die from the drug, not an allergy to it. The drugs can cause CNS depression and cariac arrest. Has not time been a judge?
Lou
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cKMn-_aQoPk
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2012, at 18:30:48
In reply to Lou's reply-smksmksmkdhtcigaret, posted by Lou Pilder on August 26, 2012, at 12:23:29
No one is talking about smoking but you. Why is this? Phillipa
Posted by schleprock on August 26, 2012, at 22:02:32
In reply to Re: Lou's request-krduhbillehty » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on August 26, 2012, at 11:09:32
> I like this one. Although the article is old, it probably includes more cases than any other study you will find. It was written at a time before SSRIs became available, and MAOIs and tricyclics were about the only antidepressants available. Doctors at the time were much more informed and comfortable with their use than today. Combining MAOIs and tricyclics were not strictly forbidden. My first introduction to this treatment modality occurred in 1983. It was then that my doctors at Columbia treated me with a combination of Nardil and amitriptyline. I have been prescribed tricyclics with MAOIs on and off for the last 30 years without incident. Recommendations for this treatment were made to me by doctors at Columbia, NYU, NIMH, Beth Israel, Harvard, and Princeton.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> --------------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/942286
>
>
> "Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1976 Jul;33(7):828-30.
> Combining tricyclic and monoamine oxidase inhibitor antidepressants.
> Spiker DG, Pugh DD.
> Abstract
>
> The charts of 150 inpatients and 51 outpatients treated with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI)-tricyclic antidepressant combination were reviewed. The incidence and severity of side effects among the patients on the combined regimen were essentially the same as those seen in the control groups. There were no deaths or strokes resulting from use of this regimen. The most frequent troublesome side effect was orthostatic hypotension. We conclude that the use of a MAOI-tricyclic combination in oral therapeutic doses is safe. However, the efficacy of this combination has not yet been proved, and it may be particularly toxic if taken in an overdose."Here's a more recent (2007) article that supports Nortriptyline and MAOI compatability:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707253/full
(From the conclusion)
"Nortriptyline has superior pharmacological properties to all other TCAs as a psychotropic; it is potent as an NRI and has a wide margin between desired effects, side effects and toxicity. It is safe to combine it with either MAOIs (including moclobemide) or selected SSRIs (sertraline and possibly citalopram). This is an advantage when treating refractory patients who may require combination antidepressant treatment: neither changes from one drug to another, nor additions to initiate combined treatments with either an MAOI or an SSRI, require drug washout times, as they do for most SSRIs. All SSRIs are strongly contra-indicated with all MAOIs."
Posted by phidippus on August 31, 2012, at 19:42:29
In reply to Natdil failure / nothing left, posted by Lepus on August 24, 2012, at 22:45:16
Agoraphobia responds best to behavioral therapy. It might be in your best interest to find a therapist who specializes in agoraphobia.
MAOIs like Nardil aren't very good for anxiety disorders. SSRIs, SNRIs and TCAs are a much better choice in treatment. There are also a ton of other drugs that can treat anxiety. What have you been on?
You don't have to live life in a prison.
ECT is not indicated for anxiety disorders. However, you can find out more about DBS, Deep Brain Stimulation.
Eric
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