![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Twin leaf on December 24, 2011, at 9:02:05
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » grapes, posted by Deneb on December 23, 2011, at 20:15:02
These are very disturbing situations that you are both raising.. As it's Christmas Eve morning, I'll just reply briefly now; I hope we'll discuss this more next week.
I think that severe social anxiety can cause the kind of decrease in cognitive functioning that you are both describing. If this is treated correctly with psychotherapy and low- dose anti-anxiety meds as needed, you have very good chances of getting back to your pre-illness high level of functioning.
I don't know what dosage levels of ADs you are taking, grape, so I don't know if this applies to you, but I am convinced (from personal experience) that hgh levels of ADs can impair cognitive functioning significantly. For the depressive component of the depression-anxiety disorders you are describing, once again the ideal treatment, to me, is long-term therapy combined with a low dose of an AD. If you really need an additional med, it should be from a different group (i.e.lithium. a tricyclic).
I know you already know this,Deneb, but I think you are taking too much in the way of SSRIs. I think much of your lowered functioning is because you are taking such high doses, and taking two different ones. I also think that you are not being effectively treated for anxiety, and, most of all, are not receiving the therapy you need. I think if your treatment included long- term therapy and anti- anxiety meds as needed in low doses, you would be able to function the way you did ten years ago - not right away, but within several years.
It would be wonderful to see both of you becoming doctors, if that is still your goal. It would be just wonderful to see you able to do whatever you want; remember, others with anxiety and depression have done it! ( for example, Dr. Drew).
Posted by bleauberry on December 24, 2011, at 9:09:26
In reply to Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 23, 2011, at 18:13:56
Ok so I saw a few possible clues in your post. One had to do with the whole pristiq/cymbalta/effexor thing. The other was the pre-menstrual thing.
With those in mind, I would be thinking in terms of:
1. What will help balance hormones?
2. It is also good for anxiety?
3. It is also good for depression?
4. It is also good for energy?
5. It has something to do with norepinephrine, dopamine, opioid, and serotonin circuits?The substance I'm thinking of that is all of those at the same time is rhodiola rosea. No matter what meds or supplements you take going forward, this has the potential to be a strong base to make everything else work much better or else it can also work well all by itself. In terms of meds I would be looking at ways to hit both norepinephrine and serotonin fairly equally at the same time. None of your other meds did that, but they did give a clue that norepinephrine is something your chemistry likes. Ways to do that include nortriptyline+zoloft; nortriptyline+prozac; desipramine with either zoloft or prozac; milnacipran.
Posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2011, at 9:56:08
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by bleauberry on December 24, 2011, at 9:09:26
I seem to always suggest the same things but in especially younger women I'd get my thyroid throughly checked out as low thyroid also causes cognitive decline if not treated. Also a newer trend that is helping many done by endos and ob-gyns especially is hormonal testing. Make sure your estrogen, testerone, progesterone are all balanced and not estrogen dominant. I agree with Twinleaf also that high doses of meds are not being discouraged and lower doses recommended. Yes treat that anxiety as it doesn't help cognition. Must read Twinleafs response as replied rather quickly. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2011, at 9:59:16
In reply to Decreased cognitive functioning, posted by Twin leaf on December 24, 2011, at 9:02:05
ditto to becoming a doctor as you would understand your patients. What specialty of the medical field were you thinking about? Phillipa
Posted by grapes on December 24, 2011, at 11:29:34
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2011, at 9:56:08
Thank you all so much for your comments thus far- its nice to be able to communicate with people who "get it".
Deneb- I am so so sorry that you are going through this as well- I hope that we will both be able to navigate our way through, find something that works to alleviate the suffering and get our lives back.
Twin Leaf- with every AD I tried, I started on the lowest dose possible- then tried maybe 1 dose higher before weaning off, b/c I seem to be more sensitive than most (stomach). I am now weaning off of Pristiq 50mg, but tried 100mg at one point, which made me sick. As my lowered cognitive functioning started years before the social anxiety symptoms, my docs believe that it is caused by my depression, and exacerbated by my anxiety -> lack of attention. It took me years to find a doc that would give me a concerta prescription to see if an add med would help- and it was only when I found this board that I realized that others were trying the same thing. I definitely think that therapy will be the most helpful for me as well- I just want to make sure I am stable enough to make the most of it.
bleauberry- thanks so much for your thoughts- I will definately look into rhodiola. I do think that my depression may be nearly completely connected to my hormones- the mood disorder center that I have an appt with in March actually is focused on women, and are well versed in treating/evaluating hormonal influences. I did have a hormone panel done at least once- but nothing stood out to the doc. I will mention the medicine pairings you listed when I see my doc- I think he is thinking of putting me on wellbutrin- any thoughts?
Phillipa- During my research over the years I have read so many books about hypothyroid- I was absolutely convinced that was my problem. However, I have been tested numerous times (it was one of the first tests they did actually) and everything always comes back normal. I have actually considered going to an endo and demanding a prescription just to see if it helped.
I no longer allow myself to think about med school as a possibility- so I have not thought about specialty choice in a long time. I do know that I want to complete an MPH beforehand (I work part time as a research assistant at a public health school now) concentrating in international health or environmental health. Anesthesiology or Pathology would be good fits as far as a medical specialty- but I dont want to think too far ahead (part of my anxiety issue)
I did forget to mention that I have tried a couple of supplements:
-phosphatidyl serine (worked on cognition for a few days! then pooped out no matter high I increased the dose)
-Seriphos (made me tired- a strange sort of tired)
-Sam-e- works as a mood elevator, but I crave carbs when on it. (helps me get through the pristiq weaning)
Currently take a multivitamin (designed for pregnant women) and may start fish oil soon - have to investigate brands/dosages
-
Posted by Dinah on December 24, 2011, at 13:30:18
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 24, 2011, at 11:29:34
Would the birth control pill help stabilize your mood?
Risperdal as needed is what keeps me functional. It's related to the AP I took as a teen to get me out of a really rough patch. The minor tranquilizers do reduce my anxiety, but they do it differently than the major tranquilizers. A smidge of Risperdal helps when my anxiety skyrockets, yet doesn't seem to make me feel stupid or sleepy.
I felt the IQ drop when I was on SSRI's. A psychologist once suggested I tried them with my son, who was having some understandable anxiety. I told him that I felt stupid on SSRI's and didn't want to do that to my son, and he agreed that they could have that effect, but added that my son had IQ points to spare. Needless to say, that was our one and only visit. Some suggestions from our local Parenting Center cleared up the problem without any drugs at all. It wasn't even cognitive behavior therapy. The parents and teachers in his life needed to do some things differently.
Ask your doctor about the AP's that are neither sedating nor activating. The middle of the road ones. They may not be right for you, but I've had a lot of success with small doses as needed.
Then CBT for the OCD. Have you read "Stop Obsessing"? I found it very helpful. A lot of people also like "Brain Lock".
Posted by Phidippus on December 24, 2011, at 20:14:17
In reply to Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 23, 2011, at 18:13:56
>-I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 >(freshman year of college)- but I did not feel >"sad". I was having trouble concentrating, >remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop)
>to not being able to finish a sentence without an >"um" second semester. I was told my issue was >perfectionism.None of the above sounds like depression to me. Sounds like text book ADHD. Have you ever been on a stimulant?
>What started out as depression turned into an >anxiety disorder (panic before exams) to social >anxiety disorder (didnt want to leave the house, >felt like I was being judged by strangers) and >borderline OCD (ruminations) all together.
I am struck that earlier you mentioned 'perfectionism'. I wonder if this was an early sign of obsessiveness. You can put all of your anxiety under the umbrella of OCD as social phobia and panic disorder go hand in hand with it.
I don't think you ever had 'depression', I think you have ADHD/OCD that may have been causing depression. The two often go hand in hand together and share similar genetic traits.
>Effexor
Sounds like it worked but you couldn't tolerate it. This drug is first recommended after SSRIs to treat OCD by the APA.
>Buspar
Buspar is often used as an augmentation for treating OCD. It helped you sleep because it more directly treated the source of your illness.
>Pristiq 50mg- worked really well at first, not >as well now but at least my moods are >predictable on it
This is interesting that you say your mood was more stable on it. Did you start it the same time you started Concerta?
ADHD imparts a kind of mood lability and when treated properly this lability can go away.
>Concerta
STAY ON THIS. It helps with your mood as a ffunction of treating the ADHD. If you want, you can try Vyvanse-Dextroamphetamine helps treat OCD.
Eric
Posted by Lou PIlder on December 25, 2011, at 12:29:55
In reply to Lou's response-wroapehydoap » grapes, posted by Lou Pilder on December 24, 2011, at 8:07:19
> > Hello all- thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > Lets see if I can sum this up succintly:
> >
> > -had SAD since I was a kid (so reports my mom)
> >
> > -I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 (freshman year of college)- but I did not feel "sad". I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop) and was craving milk at 1am. I went from winning an award for an oral presentation in my japanese 101 class first semester- to not being able to finish a sentence without an "um" second semester- and took a medical withdrawal. (I was at my "last choice school" and dealing with the shame of that....but I was eager to do well to transfer out.) I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
> >
> > -I have since been in and out of college- part time and full time- not able to successfully finish a semester since (I withdraw before the end of the semester, or take incompletes and never complete them- though the grades on the work I did complete are As/Bs)- and I am now in my late 20s. What started out as depression turned into an anxiety disorder (panic before exams) to social anxiety disorder (didnt want to leave the house, felt like I was being judged by strangers) and borderline OCD (ruminations) all together. Currently socially isolated- reduces pressure of having to seem "normal". I used to be able to fake it- now I get asked if I am "lost" by strangers b/c I look confused/off kilter.
> >
> > -the week before my period- EVERYTHING gets worse.
> >
> > At my latest school, I have been told to take 1-2 semesters off before trying again (financial aid cut off) and I haven't yet told my parents- though I did tell them that I want to take off next semester b/c I am feeling really badly. On top of that- no school means no health insurance (am rectifiying that- wont kick in until feb 1)
> >
> > Med History- (im sorry, i dont remember doses, but I was on each med for at least 4 months)
> >
> > Zoloft- zombie
> > Effexor- felt a difference, but was always naseous
> > Buspar prn- worked to knock me out when anxiety had me not sleeping for days in a row
> > -Birth control patch (can't remember which one off hand) - increased depression
> > Paxil- felt nothing, gained 40 pounds
> > cymbalta- felt a difference, but did not work as well as pristiq- so I went back to pristiq afterward
> > -Pristiq 50mg- worked really well at first, not as well now but at least my moods are predictable on it.It does SOMETHING, just not enough- and when I tried upping the dose- I get queasy. (I also think i am too apathetic on it- something bad happens, i dont care much)
> >
> > current:
> > -Weaning off of pristiq in order to "reset" before seeing new doc
> > -Concerta 18mg daily- keeps me from being in bed all day and lifts my mood a bit- basically like having coffee (used to take it prn during school, almost daily now until i see new doc)
> >
> > I have found a cognitive-behavioral therapist that I like (I had seen him before, but switched to school in house staff) - but any ideas for meds to try to stabilize are most welcome. seems like the effexor/pristiq family have worked the best so far- just not "enough". I also have an appt at a local medical school mood disorder center for an evaluation in March (looong waiting list)
> >
> > If I had my IQ back I swear I wouldn't be anxious at all.....sigh. I was the typical "bookworm/straight arrow"- planned on medical school- no idea of my future now.
> >
> > grapes,
> You wrote,[...If i had my IQ back...].
> In looking at your history of taking mind-altering drugs, I see what could be causing you this situation. You see, the chemicals in the drugs that you list cause something to happen to your brain. And to other organs as well. You see, the chemicals in ttghe drugs doi something to your cells in your nerves and brain cells.
> A lot of these chemicals are used to kill rats and insects. And are used in poison gas as well to inflict mass-murder. And some of the chemicals make a human retarded so that they will be compliant to orders from authority figures. This can also mean that the person has {an IQ drop}.
> Now your prescriber of these chemicals has a standard to uphold which (redacted by respondent) as criminal action. But they are allowed to give you these drugs even though the standard is that {they should know}, even if they say that the {didn't know}.
> Now I have written here a small amount about these chemicals because Mr. Hsiung, the owner of this site, has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting here facts about these chemicals in relation to particular parts of the historical record. The chemical I would like for you to know about is {fluoride}. Fluoride is in a lot of the drugs that psychiatrists give. Fluoride was put in the water that the {redacted by respondent) camps. Now fluoride is in Paxil amoung other mind-altering drugs. Chemists knew of this from what was done in 1939-1945 and beyond.
> One of the chemicals that I havn't written about yet is phenethylamine. This chemical has been known for thousands of years and is used by chemists today (see operation paperclip, mind control, psychiatrists).
> So the chemist that mixes up the medicine uses building blocks to combine chemicals that have been known for thousands of years that are in plants and oil and such. They synthesize the chemical through different processes. If I worked for GSK, I could make up different mind-altering drugs and give them names.
> Now the overiding issue that I see here is what to do at this point to recover your IQ....more to come...
> Lou
> >
> > grapes,
There is a lot of truth concerning mind-altering drugs that Mr. Hsiung has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting information that could be supportive and educational to you that IMHO could save your life and/or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition from the drugs given to you by psychiatrists and other doctors.
There is also the constant allowing of posts that contain statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings and you could see my requests to the administration that are outstanding for days, for weeks, for months, and for years on the administrtion board. As long as my requests remain outatanding, IMHO a Jew could be subject to antisemitic violence by the nature of that the statements that state that only(redacted by respondent) Jesus and the statement s that describe Jews in dehumanizing terms and the statements that advance {replacement theology} could give some the (false) idea that they are superior to Jews and then target a Jew for murder while in a drug-induced state of suicide or homocidal thinking.
Your drug list mentions Paxil that is a fluorinated drug. Fluoride is a very poisoous nuero-toxin used in rat poison.Fluoride can cause thyroid dissease and many people taking these type of drugs get thyroid disfunction and the consequesnces related to that. And fluoride can cause brain dysfunction so that thoss taking the drug become more easily controlled and their IQ declines and their pineal gland is harmed.
Here is a video that I am requesting that you view. The video shows how fluoride was used from 1933-1945. Now the effects were known then, and the effects are known now. Yet today, psychiatrists and other doctors give these fluorinated drugs to humans, and people like yourself want their IQ back.
I am not permitted to post what I think could save your life and get your IQ back here. What I could post here would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me ,which is prohibited by Mr. Hsiung to me to post here.
Lou
Here is the video.
To see this video;
A. pull up Google
B. Type in:
[Fluoride-The Eugenics plot Exposed (Part 1)]
,> >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 13:12:24
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » grapes, posted by Phidippus on December 24, 2011, at 20:14:17
> >-I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 >(freshman year of college)- but I did not feel >"sad". I was having trouble concentrating, >remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop)
> >to not being able to finish a sentence without an >"um" second semester. I was told my issue was >perfectionism.
> None of the above sounds like depression to me. Sounds like text book ADHD. Have you ever been on a stimulant?It is not necessary that one experience sadness or depressed mood to have major depressive disorder. What was described above would not exclude MDD from consideration as a diagnosis.
- Scott
Posted by Phidippus on December 25, 2011, at 13:23:48
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 13:12:24
Depression and ADHD are often comorbid, but none of what was described struck me as'depressive'.
Eric
Posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 13:43:24
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 25, 2011, at 13:23:48
> Depression and ADHD are often comorbid,
Yes. But they may not be here.
> but none of what was described struck me as'depressive'.
MDD is not always depressive. However, if sadness and depressed mood are absent, loss of interest and motivation must be present in order to make a MDD diagnosis. Grapes didn't describe these things, however.
- Scott
Posted by Phidippus on December 25, 2011, at 13:59:20
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 13:43:24
The whole MDD thing distracts from the real issues, which were clearly ADHD and anxiety.
Eric
Posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 14:01:22
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 25, 2011, at 13:59:20
> The whole MDD thing distracts from the real issues, which were clearly ADHD and anxiety.
>
> EricWhat did you recognize as being clearly ADHD and exclusive of MDD?
- Scott
Posted by Lou PIlder on December 25, 2011, at 14:44:41
In reply to Lou's response-ovrdhaphalz, posted by Lou PIlder on December 25, 2011, at 12:29:55
> > > Hello all- thanks in advance for your help.
> > >
> > > Lets see if I can sum this up succintly:
> > >
> > > -had SAD since I was a kid (so reports my mom)
> > >
> > > -I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 (freshman year of college)- but I did not feel "sad". I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop) and was craving milk at 1am. I went from winning an award for an oral presentation in my japanese 101 class first semester- to not being able to finish a sentence without an "um" second semester- and took a medical withdrawal. (I was at my "last choice school" and dealing with the shame of that....but I was eager to do well to transfer out.) I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
> > >
> > > -I have since been in and out of college- part time and full time- not able to successfully finish a semester since (I withdraw before the end of the semester, or take incompletes and never complete them- though the grades on the work I did complete are As/Bs)- and I am now in my late 20s. What started out as depression turned into an anxiety disorder (panic before exams) to social anxiety disorder (didnt want to leave the house, felt like I was being judged by strangers) and borderline OCD (ruminations) all together. Currently socially isolated- reduces pressure of having to seem "normal". I used to be able to fake it- now I get asked if I am "lost" by strangers b/c I look confused/off kilter.
> > >
> > > -the week before my period- EVERYTHING gets worse.
> > >
> > > At my latest school, I have been told to take 1-2 semesters off before trying again (financial aid cut off) and I haven't yet told my parents- though I did tell them that I want to take off next semester b/c I am feeling really badly. On top of that- no school means no health insurance (am rectifiying that- wont kick in until feb 1)
> > >
> > > Med History- (im sorry, i dont remember doses, but I was on each med for at least 4 months)
> > >
> > > Zoloft- zombie
> > > Effexor- felt a difference, but was always naseous
> > > Buspar prn- worked to knock me out when anxiety had me not sleeping for days in a row
> > > -Birth control patch (can't remember which one off hand) - increased depression
> > > Paxil- felt nothing, gained 40 pounds
> > > cymbalta- felt a difference, but did not work as well as pristiq- so I went back to pristiq afterward
> > > -Pristiq 50mg- worked really well at first, not as well now but at least my moods are predictable on it.It does SOMETHING, just not enough- and when I tried upping the dose- I get queasy. (I also think i am too apathetic on it- something bad happens, i dont care much)
> > >
> > > current:
> > > -Weaning off of pristiq in order to "reset" before seeing new doc
> > > -Concerta 18mg daily- keeps me from being in bed all day and lifts my mood a bit- basically like having coffee (used to take it prn during school, almost daily now until i see new doc)
> > >
> > > I have found a cognitive-behavioral therapist that I like (I had seen him before, but switched to school in house staff) - but any ideas for meds to try to stabilize are most welcome. seems like the effexor/pristiq family have worked the best so far- just not "enough". I also have an appt at a local medical school mood disorder center for an evaluation in March (looong waiting list)
> > >
> > > If I had my IQ back I swear I wouldn't be anxious at all.....sigh. I was the typical "bookworm/straight arrow"- planned on medical school- no idea of my future now.
> > >
> > > grapes,
> > You wrote,[...If i had my IQ back...].
> > In looking at your history of taking mind-altering drugs, I see what could be causing you this situation. You see, the chemicals in the drugs that you list cause something to happen to your brain. And to other organs as well. You see, the chemicals in ttghe drugs doi something to your cells in your nerves and brain cells.
> > A lot of these chemicals are used to kill rats and insects. And are used in poison gas as well to inflict mass-murder. And some of the chemicals make a human retarded so that they will be compliant to orders from authority figures. This can also mean that the person has {an IQ drop}.
> > Now your prescriber of these chemicals has a standard to uphold which (redacted by respondent) as criminal action. But they are allowed to give you these drugs even though the standard is that {they should know}, even if they say that the {didn't know}.
> > Now I have written here a small amount about these chemicals because Mr. Hsiung, the owner of this site, has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting here facts about these chemicals in relation to particular parts of the historical record. The chemical I would like for you to know about is {fluoride}. Fluoride is in a lot of the drugs that psychiatrists give. Fluoride was put in the water that the {redacted by respondent) camps. Now fluoride is in Paxil amoung other mind-altering drugs. Chemists knew of this from what was done in 1939-1945 and beyond.
> > One of the chemicals that I havn't written about yet is phenethylamine. This chemical has been known for thousands of years and is used by chemists today (see operation paperclip, mind control, psychiatrists).
> > So the chemist that mixes up the medicine uses building blocks to combine chemicals that have been known for thousands of years that are in plants and oil and such. They synthesize the chemical through different processes. If I worked for GSK, I could make up different mind-altering drugs and give them names.
> > Now the overiding issue that I see here is what to do at this point to recover your IQ....more to come...
> > Lou
> > >
> > > grapes,
> There is a lot of truth concerning mind-altering drugs that Mr. Hsiung has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting information that could be supportive and educational to you that IMHO could save your life and/or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition from the drugs given to you by psychiatrists and other doctors.
> There is also the constant allowing of posts that contain statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings and you could see my requests to the administration that are outstanding for days, for weeks, for months, and for years on the administrtion board. As long as my requests remain outatanding, IMHO a Jew could be subject to antisemitic violence by the nature of that the statements that state that only(redacted by respondent) Jesus and the statement s that describe Jews in dehumanizing terms and the statements that advance {replacement theology} could give some the (false) idea that they are superior to Jews and then target a Jew for murder while in a drug-induced state of suicide or homocidal thinking.
> Your drug list mentions Paxil that is a fluorinated drug. Fluoride is a very poisoous nuero-toxin used in rat poison.Fluoride can cause thyroid dissease and many people taking these type of drugs get thyroid disfunction and the consequesnces related to that. And fluoride can cause brain dysfunction so that thoss taking the drug become more easily controlled and their IQ declines and their pineal gland is harmed.
> Here is a video that I am requesting that you view. The video shows how fluoride was used from 1933-1945. Now the effects were known then, and the effects are known now. Yet today, psychiatrists and other doctors give these fluorinated drugs to humans, and people like yourself want their IQ back.
> I am not permitted to post what I think could save your life and get your IQ back here. What I could post here would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me ,which is prohibited by Mr. Hsiung to me to post here.
> Lou
> Here is the video.
> To see this video;
> A. pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [Fluoride-The Eugenics plot Exposed (Part 1)]
> ,> >
> > > grape,
Here is a list of psychotropic drugs that are fluoridated.
A. Luvox
B. Paxil
C. Lexapro
D. Prozac
E. Celexa
F. others
Now those drugs could cause memory loss, which could then cause a lower IQ.
Now in your quest to recover your IQ, would it be prudent to continue to take any of those drugs?
But does this mean that the non-fluorinated psychotropic drugs will not cause your IQ to go down? I will show you the other chemicals in these drugs that could even be more (redacted by respondent) to your intellect. And they could cause brain damage that is not reversible.
Lou
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 14:54:56
In reply to Lou's response-fluordrgz, posted by Lou PIlder on December 25, 2011, at 14:44:41
Lou, molecules do not act as the additive properties of the component atoms. Where were you taught that they did?
- Scott
Posted by Lou PIlder on December 26, 2011, at 6:18:47
In reply to Lou's response-fluordrgz, posted by Lou PIlder on December 25, 2011, at 14:44:41
> > > > Hello all- thanks in advance for your help.
> > > >
> > > > Lets see if I can sum this up succintly:
> > > >
> > > > -had SAD since I was a kid (so reports my mom)
> > > >
> > > > -I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 (freshman year of college)- but I did not feel "sad". I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop) and was craving milk at 1am. I went from winning an award for an oral presentation in my japanese 101 class first semester- to not being able to finish a sentence without an "um" second semester- and took a medical withdrawal. (I was at my "last choice school" and dealing with the shame of that....but I was eager to do well to transfer out.) I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
> > > >
> > > > -I have since been in and out of college- part time and full time- not able to successfully finish a semester since (I withdraw before the end of the semester, or take incompletes and never complete them- though the grades on the work I did complete are As/Bs)- and I am now in my late 20s. What started out as depression turned into an anxiety disorder (panic before exams) to social anxiety disorder (didnt want to leave the house, felt like I was being judged by strangers) and borderline OCD (ruminations) all together. Currently socially isolated- reduces pressure of having to seem "normal". I used to be able to fake it- now I get asked if I am "lost" by strangers b/c I look confused/off kilter.
> > > >
> > > > -the week before my period- EVERYTHING gets worse.
> > > >
> > > > At my latest school, I have been told to take 1-2 semesters off before trying again (financial aid cut off) and I haven't yet told my parents- though I did tell them that I want to take off next semester b/c I am feeling really badly. On top of that- no school means no health insurance (am rectifiying that- wont kick in until feb 1)
> > > >
> > > > Med History- (im sorry, i dont remember doses, but I was on each med for at least 4 months)
> > > >
> > > > Zoloft- zombie
> > > > Effexor- felt a difference, but was always naseous
> > > > Buspar prn- worked to knock me out when anxiety had me not sleeping for days in a row
> > > > -Birth control patch (can't remember which one off hand) - increased depression
> > > > Paxil- felt nothing, gained 40 pounds
> > > > cymbalta- felt a difference, but did not work as well as pristiq- so I went back to pristiq afterward
> > > > -Pristiq 50mg- worked really well at first, not as well now but at least my moods are predictable on it.It does SOMETHING, just not enough- and when I tried upping the dose- I get queasy. (I also think i am too apathetic on it- something bad happens, i dont care much)
> > > >
> > > > current:
> > > > -Weaning off of pristiq in order to "reset" before seeing new doc
> > > > -Concerta 18mg daily- keeps me from being in bed all day and lifts my mood a bit- basically like having coffee (used to take it prn during school, almost daily now until i see new doc)
> > > >
> > > > I have found a cognitive-behavioral therapist that I like (I had seen him before, but switched to school in house staff) - but any ideas for meds to try to stabilize are most welcome. seems like the effexor/pristiq family have worked the best so far- just not "enough". I also have an appt at a local medical school mood disorder center for an evaluation in March (looong waiting list)
> > > >
> > > > If I had my IQ back I swear I wouldn't be anxious at all.....sigh. I was the typical "bookworm/straight arrow"- planned on medical school- no idea of my future now.
> > > >
> > > > grapes,
> > > You wrote,[...If i had my IQ back...].
> > > In looking at your history of taking mind-altering drugs, I see what could be causing you this situation. You see, the chemicals in the drugs that you list cause something to happen to your brain. And to other organs as well. You see, the chemicals in ttghe drugs doi something to your cells in your nerves and brain cells.
> > > A lot of these chemicals are used to kill rats and insects. And are used in poison gas as well to inflict mass-murder. And some of the chemicals make a human retarded so that they will be compliant to orders from authority figures. This can also mean that the person has {an IQ drop}.
> > > Now your prescriber of these chemicals has a standard to uphold which (redacted by respondent) as criminal action. But they are allowed to give you these drugs even though the standard is that {they should know}, even if they say that the {didn't know}.
> > > Now I have written here a small amount about these chemicals because Mr. Hsiung, the owner of this site, has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting here facts about these chemicals in relation to particular parts of the historical record. The chemical I would like for you to know about is {fluoride}. Fluoride is in a lot of the drugs that psychiatrists give. Fluoride was put in the water that the {redacted by respondent) camps. Now fluoride is in Paxil amoung other mind-altering drugs. Chemists knew of this from what was done in 1939-1945 and beyond.
> > > One of the chemicals that I havn't written about yet is phenethylamine. This chemical has been known for thousands of years and is used by chemists today (see operation paperclip, mind control, psychiatrists).
> > > So the chemist that mixes up the medicine uses building blocks to combine chemicals that have been known for thousands of years that are in plants and oil and such. They synthesize the chemical through different processes. If I worked for GSK, I could make up different mind-altering drugs and give them names.
> > > Now the overiding issue that I see here is what to do at this point to recover your IQ....more to come...
> > > Lou
> > > >
> > > > grapes,
> > There is a lot of truth concerning mind-altering drugs that Mr. Hsiung has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting information that could be supportive and educational to you that IMHO could save your life and/or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition from the drugs given to you by psychiatrists and other doctors.
> > There is also the constant allowing of posts that contain statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings and you could see my requests to the administration that are outstanding for days, for weeks, for months, and for years on the administrtion board. As long as my requests remain outatanding, IMHO a Jew could be subject to antisemitic violence by the nature of that the statements that state that only(redacted by respondent) Jesus and the statement s that describe Jews in dehumanizing terms and the statements that advance {replacement theology} could give some the (false) idea that they are superior to Jews and then target a Jew for murder while in a drug-induced state of suicide or homocidal thinking.
> > Your drug list mentions Paxil that is a fluorinated drug. Fluoride is a very poisoous nuero-toxin used in rat poison.Fluoride can cause thyroid dissease and many people taking these type of drugs get thyroid disfunction and the consequesnces related to that. And fluoride can cause brain dysfunction so that thoss taking the drug become more easily controlled and their IQ declines and their pineal gland is harmed.
> > Here is a video that I am requesting that you view. The video shows how fluoride was used from 1933-1945. Now the effects were known then, and the effects are known now. Yet today, psychiatrists and other doctors give these fluorinated drugs to humans, and people like yourself want their IQ back.
> > I am not permitted to post what I think could save your life and get your IQ back here. What I could post here would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me ,which is prohibited by Mr. Hsiung to me to post here.
> > Lou
> > Here is the video.
> > To see this video;
> > A. pull up Google
> > B. Type in:
> > [Fluoride-The Eugenics plot Exposed (Part 1)]
> > ,> >
> > > > grape,
> Here is a list of psychotropic drugs that are fluoridated.
> A. Luvox
> B. Paxil
> C. Lexapro
> D. Prozac
> E. Celexa
> F. others
> Now those drugs could cause memory loss, which could then cause a lower IQ.
> Now in your quest to recover your IQ, would it be prudent to continue to take any of those drugs?
> But does this mean that the non-fluorinated psychotropic drugs will not cause your IQ to go down? I will show you the other chemicals in these drugs that could even be more (redacted by respondent) to your intellect. And they could cause brain damage that is not reversible.
> Lou
> > > >
> > > grapes,
I am requesting that you view the following video. To see this:
A. pull up Google
B. Type in:
[Prozac is fluoride, favorite drug]
usually first... posted on Nov 28 20011.... 1 min
Lou
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Lou PIlder on December 26, 2011, at 11:39:11
In reply to Lou's response-Fizpro, posted by Lou PIlder on December 26, 2011, at 6:18:47
> > > > > Hello all- thanks in advance for your help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets see if I can sum this up succintly:
> > > > >
> > > > > -had SAD since I was a kid (so reports my mom)
> > > > >
> > > > > -I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 (freshman year of college)- but I did not feel "sad". I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop) and was craving milk at 1am. I went from winning an award for an oral presentation in my japanese 101 class first semester- to not being able to finish a sentence without an "um" second semester- and took a medical withdrawal. (I was at my "last choice school" and dealing with the shame of that....but I was eager to do well to transfer out.) I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
> > > > >
> > > > > -I have since been in and out of college- part time and full time- not able to successfully finish a semester since (I withdraw before the end of the semester, or take incompletes and never complete them- though the grades on the work I did complete are As/Bs)- and I am now in my late 20s. What started out as depression turned into an anxiety disorder (panic before exams) to social anxiety disorder (didnt want to leave the house, felt like I was being judged by strangers) and borderline OCD (ruminations) all together. Currently socially isolated- reduces pressure of having to seem "normal". I used to be able to fake it- now I get asked if I am "lost" by strangers b/c I look confused/off kilter.
> > > > >
> > > > > -the week before my period- EVERYTHING gets worse.
> > > > >
> > > > > At my latest school, I have been told to take 1-2 semesters off before trying again (financial aid cut off) and I haven't yet told my parents- though I did tell them that I want to take off next semester b/c I am feeling really badly. On top of that- no school means no health insurance (am rectifiying that- wont kick in until feb 1)
> > > > >
> > > > > Med History- (im sorry, i dont remember doses, but I was on each med for at least 4 months)
> > > > >
> > > > > Zoloft- zombie
> > > > > Effexor- felt a difference, but was always naseous
> > > > > Buspar prn- worked to knock me out when anxiety had me not sleeping for days in a row
> > > > > -Birth control patch (can't remember which one off hand) - increased depression
> > > > > Paxil- felt nothing, gained 40 pounds
> > > > > cymbalta- felt a difference, but did not work as well as pristiq- so I went back to pristiq afterward
> > > > > -Pristiq 50mg- worked really well at first, not as well now but at least my moods are predictable on it.It does SOMETHING, just not enough- and when I tried upping the dose- I get queasy. (I also think i am too apathetic on it- something bad happens, i dont care much)
> > > > >
> > > > > current:
> > > > > -Weaning off of pristiq in order to "reset" before seeing new doc
> > > > > -Concerta 18mg daily- keeps me from being in bed all day and lifts my mood a bit- basically like having coffee (used to take it prn during school, almost daily now until i see new doc)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have found a cognitive-behavioral therapist that I like (I had seen him before, but switched to school in house staff) - but any ideas for meds to try to stabilize are most welcome. seems like the effexor/pristiq family have worked the best so far- just not "enough". I also have an appt at a local medical school mood disorder center for an evaluation in March (looong waiting list)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I had my IQ back I swear I wouldn't be anxious at all.....sigh. I was the typical "bookworm/straight arrow"- planned on medical school- no idea of my future now.
> > > > >
> > > > > grapes,
> > > > You wrote,[...If i had my IQ back...].
> > > > In looking at your history of taking mind-altering drugs, I see what could be causing you this situation. You see, the chemicals in the drugs that you list cause something to happen to your brain. And to other organs as well. You see, the chemicals in ttghe drugs doi something to your cells in your nerves and brain cells.
> > > > A lot of these chemicals are used to kill rats and insects. And are used in poison gas as well to inflict mass-murder. And some of the chemicals make a human retarded so that they will be compliant to orders from authority figures. This can also mean that the person has {an IQ drop}.
> > > > Now your prescriber of these chemicals has a standard to uphold which (redacted by respondent) as criminal action. But they are allowed to give you these drugs even though the standard is that {they should know}, even if they say that the {didn't know}.
> > > > Now I have written here a small amount about these chemicals because Mr. Hsiung, the owner of this site, has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting here facts about these chemicals in relation to particular parts of the historical record. The chemical I would like for you to know about is {fluoride}. Fluoride is in a lot of the drugs that psychiatrists give. Fluoride was put in the water that the {redacted by respondent) camps. Now fluoride is in Paxil amoung other mind-altering drugs. Chemists knew of this from what was done in 1939-1945 and beyond.
> > > > One of the chemicals that I havn't written about yet is phenethylamine. This chemical has been known for thousands of years and is used by chemists today (see operation paperclip, mind control, psychiatrists).
> > > > So the chemist that mixes up the medicine uses building blocks to combine chemicals that have been known for thousands of years that are in plants and oil and such. They synthesize the chemical through different processes. If I worked for GSK, I could make up different mind-altering drugs and give them names.
> > > > Now the overiding issue that I see here is what to do at this point to recover your IQ....more to come...
> > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > > grapes,
> > > There is a lot of truth concerning mind-altering drugs that Mr. Hsiung has made prohibitions to me that prevent me from posting information that could be supportive and educational to you that IMHO could save your life and/or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition from the drugs given to you by psychiatrists and other doctors.
> > > There is also the constant allowing of posts that contain statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings and you could see my requests to the administration that are outstanding for days, for weeks, for months, and for years on the administrtion board. As long as my requests remain outatanding, IMHO a Jew could be subject to antisemitic violence by the nature of that the statements that state that only(redacted by respondent) Jesus and the statement s that describe Jews in dehumanizing terms and the statements that advance {replacement theology} could give some the (false) idea that they are superior to Jews and then target a Jew for murder while in a drug-induced state of suicide or homocidal thinking.
> > > Your drug list mentions Paxil that is a fluorinated drug. Fluoride is a very poisoous nuero-toxin used in rat poison.Fluoride can cause thyroid dissease and many people taking these type of drugs get thyroid disfunction and the consequesnces related to that. And fluoride can cause brain dysfunction so that thoss taking the drug become more easily controlled and their IQ declines and their pineal gland is harmed.
> > > Here is a video that I am requesting that you view. The video shows how fluoride was used from 1933-1945. Now the effects were known then, and the effects are known now. Yet today, psychiatrists and other doctors give these fluorinated drugs to humans, and people like yourself want their IQ back.
> > > I am not permitted to post what I think could save your life and get your IQ back here. What I could post here would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me ,which is prohibited by Mr. Hsiung to me to post here.
> > > Lou
> > > Here is the video.
> > > To see this video;
> > > A. pull up Google
> > > B. Type in:
> > > [Fluoride-The Eugenics plot Exposed (Part 1)]
> > > ,> >
> > > > > grape,
> > Here is a list of psychotropic drugs that are fluoridated.
> > A. Luvox
> > B. Paxil
> > C. Lexapro
> > D. Prozac
> > E. Celexa
> > F. others
> > Now those drugs could cause memory loss, which could then cause a lower IQ.
> > Now in your quest to recover your IQ, would it be prudent to continue to take any of those drugs?
> > But does this mean that the non-fluorinated psychotropic drugs will not cause your IQ to go down? I will show you the other chemicals in these drugs that could even be more (redacted by respondent) to your intellect. And they could cause brain damage that is not reversible.
> > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > grapes,
> I am requesting that you view the following video. To see this:
> A. pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [Prozac is fluoride, favorite drug]
> usually first... posted on Nov 28 20011.... 1 min
> Lou
> > > >
> > > grapes,
Now you say you're on concerta. And you say that you want your IQ back. Let's see.
Concerta is a new name for an old drug. The drug was mixed up by a chemist for his wife that had low blood pressure. Now he took the building blocks of piperidine, phenyl, methyl and acetic acid and used processes to combine them into the drug, named after his wife.
The piperidines have been used for thousands of years to alter the minds of people. They come from plants such as the pepper plant, hence the name. Now this drug speeds up the CNS and could thearfore cause issues involving that system of the body.
> > > The effects are similar to the effects of cocaine and amphetamines. There could be addictive consequences, withdrawal consequences, memory problems and a host of other consequences as a result of taking this drug, even death, for I do not see after looking at the chemical structure of amphetamines and cocaine that the brain could know the difference between concerta or cocaine or amphetamines.
Now the chemist that mixed up this chemical combination loved his wife and wanted her to be good at tennis, but she had low blood pressure and this drug could raise it. Lovely Rita, Ritalin.
Lou
> >
> >
>
>.
Posted by grapes on December 26, 2011, at 17:24:29
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 14:01:22
Thank you all SO MUCH for all of your comments thus far- it has given me a lot to think about- and will take time to digest.
My symptoms have been difficult for me to sus out as well- mostly b/c of their timing. I started out feeling one way (2001) and now have a myriad of other symptoms to deal with, that I did not have at the beginning of all of this.
I am dealing with depression now (loss of interest, sometimes overwhelming saddness, lethargy/cant get out of bed, overeating) but whether it should have been the original diagnosis is confusing. On the website of the womens mood disorder center I mentioned, it highlights some symptoms that I have that I had not pinpointed yet
-irratibility/anger (I never had a temper when all this started, now I do)
- interest in new projects/ increased productivity when I start a new project (maybe this is why starting at a new school gives me momentum?)
- suicidal ideation (started with zoloft- it was my first prescription)A qigong meditation CD got rid of the insomnia I used to have- I simply used it every single night for 2 months- then I could fall asleep on my own again during the height of my anxiety (2007). Too bad I can't remember where I put it, huh?
Buspar- acted as a traquilizer dart- within 15 min I could not keep my eyes open. It did its job- but I hated it, used it for about a week.
Concerta- I can only use 18mg/day because any more than that increases my anxiety. I really think I should change to a different add med- b/c it causes rapid speech and I feel a bit wired- but I am not sure what to try next.
Pristiq- It helped with mood elevation- but I was also working full time at the time, and not in school at all (anxiety increases when in school). Its effectiveness decreased over time, and Once back to school, the Pristiq was not been enough- so we eventually added concerta. The pristiq prevented the "crash" at the end of the day that I experienced on higher concerta doses- But I was on Pristiq for months before I ever started the concerta.
Since I wont be seeing a doc until my new insurance kicks in around feb 1 (and am taking the spring semester off)- I may look into trying rhodiola for the next few weeks. Is it safe to take with concerta? (I would start it alone first)
Any ideas on what add/adhd med to try that will not exacerbate my anxiety?
thanks- Im sorry my thoughts are all over the place.
Posted by Phidippus on December 27, 2011, at 8:13:02
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by SLS on December 25, 2011, at 14:01:22
I can't remember the post clearly now, but I just remember reading it and thinking how less about depression than her post was about inattention.
Eric
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2011, at 8:51:44
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 27, 2011, at 8:13:02
> I can't remember the post clearly now, but I just remember reading it and thinking how less about depression than her post was about inattention.
"I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things"
The inability to concentrate is not the same as inattention.
- Scott
Posted by Phidippus on December 27, 2011, at 9:02:37
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » Phidippus, posted by SLS on December 27, 2011, at 8:51:44
"The inability to concentrate is not the same as inattention."
One can not concentrate if one is inattentive.
Also, she had a strong response to Concerta.
Eric
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2011, at 9:09:36
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long) » SLS, posted by Phidippus on December 27, 2011, at 9:02:37
> "The inability to concentrate is not the same as inattention."
>
> One can not concentrate if one is inattentive.
>
> Also, she had a strong response to Concerta.
>
> Eric
I am not refuting or affirming your conclusion - just questioning the way you got there.
- Scott
Posted by alchemy on December 28, 2011, at 21:42:19
In reply to Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 23, 2011, at 18:13:56
I am soo sorry.
> -had SAD since I was a kid (so reports my mom)
Sometimes others are better at noticing, but I would assume by now you would have know if it was really a problem. (might as well take some extra vit d, and maybe with some calcium. that was weird that you craved milk. my blood tests actually showed that I was low in both)
> -I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18 (freshman year of college)- but I did not feel "sad". I was having trouble concentrating, remembering things (felt like a major IQ drop) and was craving milk at 1am. I went from winning an award for an oral presentation in my japanese 101 class first semester- to not being able to finish a sentence without an "um" second semester- and took a medical withdrawal. (I was at my "last choice school" and dealing with the shame of that....but I was eager to do well to transfer out.) I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
Ya, sounds like depression was secondary. Funny thing is that sometimes mood meds can help with cognition- or decrease it. The brain is such a black box. When I first tried Topamax, I couldn't remember my address!
> -the week before my period- EVERYTHING gets worse.
Isn't it fun? Birth-control pills also make me worse. Everyone is different, but often people with depression become worse with the pill (or it may depend on the pill). SSRIs help some people, but it sounds like none of them have so far.
It sounds like some SNRIs have helped a little. So I guess there's Cymbalta left to try. Could you take a something for nausea?
Definitely continue taking Concerta or another stimulant.
> If I had my IQ back I swear I wouldn't be anxious at all.....
My 2 cents is that it may be worth it to try something like Xanax (until you get your IQ back :) Dr's have different opinions, I have been taking 2mg of long acting for years w/ no probs.
Modafinil/Provigil is debated on whether it helps cognition (expensive though)
It will be interesting to see what the new dr. says. Don't lose hope, there is a lot to try. And if anything, new drugs/findings can still come out.
Posted by alchemy on December 28, 2011, at 22:22:49
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 26, 2011, at 17:24:29
> Any ideas on what add/adhd med to try that will not exacerbate my anxiety?
fyi - I can take my xanax with a stimulant (Dexedrine and Ritalin). I will still feel too activated or get an anxious stomach if I take too much of the stimulant though.
Posted by SLS on December 29, 2011, at 5:24:28
In reply to Re: Can't get through school- what to try next? (long), posted by grapes on December 26, 2011, at 17:24:29
> I was told my issue was perfectionism. (I counter that I felt my brain stop working- of COURSE i got depressed?!)
Perfectionism can drive depression. It's a neurobiological thing. Even if you find a treatment regime that improves the depression, perfectionism can stress the system and cause medication breakthrough (relapse). Perfectionism does not go away overnight. It requires psychotherapeutic work. Just try not to be a perfectionist in your treatment of perfectionism!
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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