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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 8:23:43
my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 13, 2011, at 8:45:59
In reply to my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 8:23:43
is saphris the one that you take 2x daily w/o food in dissolving form and that has the sudden cardiac death warning? If so, maybe s/he's just being practical. I mean, any medication that requires taking 2+ times daily usually has a lower compliance rate, unless its xanax, in which case lots of people have the opposite problem. Also, I read online that these newer AP drugs--fanapt, saphris, invega, etc.--really aren't huge improvements over the existing drugs. Some of them--I want to say fanapt, but I'm not sure--even have more EPS than some existing options, so its kind of like an extremely expensive step backwards.
If it is the one with the sudden death warning, I wouldn't want to take it. Don't get me wrong; people on antipsychotics die because of their drugs, and it doesn't matter if its atypical or not, but its kind of ridiculous when the problem is so pronounced that they have to issue a warning about it. Any antipsychotic can cause NMS or sudden death, that's true, but its usually not severe enough to warrant a special warning, except for Mellaril. And with Mellaril, they didn't bother to issue a warning until the drug was generic, very cheap, and 50 years old, so I think it has more to do with demonizing the old drugs than with protecting patients.
Wow. Sorry to rant. I just don't think you're missing out on a whole lot. I guess that's my point. Saphris is probably a great option for some people, but its not as if its some huge advance and you're missing out on the latest, greatest therapy ever developed.
Have you tried Clozapine?
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 9:44:16
In reply to Re: my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!!, posted by Christ_empowered on November 13, 2011, at 8:45:59
yes i tried Clozapine its very bad medicine you know, salvia, sedation, increase psychosis, trouble swallowing, if you are recommending me this medicine,
no Saphris doesnt have black box warning not that i know, Geodon does Qtc prolognation,
Sycrest doesnt have that warning... am i mistaken???
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 13, 2011, at 9:53:58
In reply to To Christ Empowered, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 9:44:16
honestly, I get them all confused. Since I've been stable on standard dose Abilify and standard dose Lamictal for a while now, I've become a lot less interested in the latest meds to hit the market.
I'm sorry your shrink said no, but its not as if you're missing out on too much.
What are you on now? What are your remaining symptoms? I really don't know what can be done if multiple antipsychotics have failed at various doses. From reading on it, it seems like clozapine is the go-to drug. Clozapine+Abilify has also been used, apparently with good results (keep in mind, those studies were probably funded by the Abilify people).
Have you tried adding in Depakote or Lithium, or maybe some sort of benzo, maybe lorazepam or clonazepam? There's research that shows some people respond to treating "schizophrenia" more like schizoaffective or severe Bipolar I. Antidepressants can improve things, too, for some people. Benzos can help some patients, too; there's older research using just benzos at various doses that shows a substantial improvement in certain patients.
I'm so sorry, Jeroen. It must be tough. And the diagnoses aren't that great, especially schizophrenia. You can have all sorts of "symptoms" and end up with a schizophrenia label; no wonder its hard to get effective treatment. They lump all kinds of disorders under one scientific-sounding label and then scratch their heads and wonder why so many people are still suffering, despite what they consider "good treatment."
Anyway, enough of my ranting. I hope you find something that helps you and that gets your symptoms under control enough for you to enjoy life again.
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2011, at 10:00:48
In reply to my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 8:23:43
Jeroen I'm sorry but CE does know his meds. He takes them also. So he really knows. Are you a bit better? I know how long you have waited for this med. Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 11:03:10
In reply to Re: my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!! » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2011, at 10:00:48
im thinking of leaving this board since im not getting better at all, all you people think of when taking new meds is death, horrible side effects, therapy resistant stuff
nothing positive come out here, goodbye!
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 11:53:41
In reply to im thinking of leaving this board since im not get, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 11:03:10
Hi J
>all you people think of when taking new meds is death, horrible side effects...
I suppose many people are concerned about the side effects of antipsychotics. You know from your Geodon experience that there are risks.
What are your symptoms at the moment J?
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 14:22:06
In reply to Re: im thinking of leaving this board since im not get » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 11:53:41
same thing, depression, psychosis, mania
not responding to abilify or seroquel XR
its blocking of the mania from the drug induced psychosis.. i feel so ashamed and bad dont know what to do, give saphris a try, Ed can you do me a favor and tell me this drug is safe for the heart or not...
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 14:51:03
In reply to Re: im thinking of leaving this board since im not get » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 11:53:41
i'm starting to think this medicine saphris is unsafe :(
why do people create sites like thishttp://shearlingsplowed.blogspot.com/2009/07/fda-reviewer-on-asenapine-schering.html
http://bipolarsoupkitchen-stephany.blogspot.com/2010/09/death-from-antipsychotic-asenapine.html
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 15:09:31
In reply to to ed_uk, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 14:22:06
>Ed can you do me a favor and tell me this drug is safe for the heart or not...
I am not very familiar with Saphris because it is not used here.... but it does seem that it can affect cardiac conduction to some extent.
Posted by herpills on November 13, 2011, at 15:32:38
In reply to i'm starting to think this medicine saphris is uns, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 14:51:03
I don't think Saphris really presents any more of a risk than other meds you have probably tried.
If you are still having symptoms, why won't your doctor let you at least try Saphris? herpills
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 15:40:10
In reply to i'm starting to think this medicine saphris is uns, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 14:51:03
>I'm starting to think this medicine (Saphris) is unsafe...
Jeroen, is Saphris actually available in your country?
As far as I know, the European Medicines Agency rejected asenapine for schizophrenia because the trials submitted by the manufacturer did not convincingly demonstrate that it was effective. The EMA did however approve asenapine for the treatment of moderate to severe mania.
I think that asenapine may have been launched in certain European countries but not others. It was never launched in the UK.
I do not expect that asenapine would be especially effective for you J, since it does not seem to be better than other antipsychotics, and there are some potential risks associated with its use. I think this is why your doctor did not want to prescribe it. If he thought it would help you I think he would prescribe it.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 15:42:59
In reply to Re: i'm starting to think this medicine saphris is uns » Jeroen, posted by herpills on November 13, 2011, at 15:32:38
>I don't think Saphris really presents any more of a risk than other meds you have probably tried.
Perhaps not, but I'm not sure it's sold in his country. Are you sure that it is Jeroen?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 15:48:41
In reply to Re: To Christ Empowered, posted by Christ_empowered on November 13, 2011, at 9:53:58
>I'm sorry your shrink said no, but it's not as if you're missing out on too much.
Efficacy of asenapine (Sycrest, Saphris) does not look too impressive. It does not seem to be as effective as olanzapine (Zyprexa), and the differences from placebo were not that great.
From the European Medicines Agency website.....
'Sycrest was effective at treating manic episodes in patients with bipolar disorder. In the first short-term study, the reductions in Y-MRS score after three weeks were 11.5 and 14.6 points for Sycrest and olanzapine, respectively, compared with 7.8 points for placebo. The reductions for the second short-term study were 10.8 and 12.6 points for Sycrest and olanzapine, respectively, and 5.5 for placebo.
In the first long-term study, a reduction in Y-MRS score of 12.9 was seen in patients taking Sycrest compared with 16.2 in patients taking olanzapine. In the second long-term study, the reductions in Y‑MRS score were 10.3 and 7.9 for Sycrest and placebo, respectively, after three weeks and 12.7 and 9.3 after 12 weeks.
The studies on schizophrenia were not considered to have shown sufficient evidence of the effectiveness in treating this disease.'
Posted by SLS on November 13, 2011, at 16:15:30
In reply to Re: To Christ Empowered » Christ_empowered, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 13, 2011, at 15:48:41
> Efficacy of asenapine (Sycrest, Saphris) does not look too impressive.
Statistically, it may not be all that impressive. However, if it works well for a minority of people, it might make sense to try it anyway, especially when there are few remaining alternatives.
Jeroen,
What reasons did your doctors have for refusing to treat you with Saphris?
I am still uncertain as to what mental illnesses you have.
"same thing, depression, psychosis, mania"
What is this? Are these symptoms? Are they separate disorders? What are the diagnoses given by your doctors?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2011, at 21:16:11
In reply to Re: To Jeroen, posted by SLS on November 13, 2011, at 16:15:30
Jeroen has your diagnosis changed to bipolar? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on November 14, 2011, at 8:11:54
In reply to Re: To Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2011, at 21:16:11
no still schizo, and on the official site of saphris it sais its been used for schizo...
Posted by Brot on November 14, 2011, at 11:04:57
In reply to my psychiatrist wont let me try Saphris!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2011, at 8:23:43
I think the "problem" is that saphris isnt licensed in the EU for shizophrenia/psychosis. Its ONLY licensed für mild to severe acute mania.
If the pdocs in a hispital in belgium are like they are here they are only allowed to prescribe something if its also licensed for it...
which is a bit stupid, imo...
well, my 2 cent
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 14, 2011, at 17:14:06
In reply to Re: To Jeroen, posted by Jeroen on November 14, 2011, at 8:11:54
>no still schizo, and on the official site of saphris it sais its been used for schizo...
Saphris is the American brand name J. In Europe, asenapine is not approved as a treatment for schizophrenia because the studies submitted by the manufacturer were not considered adequate to demonstrate efficacy.
Like Scott says, it is certainly possible that it might help....
Posted by Jeroen on November 15, 2011, at 3:29:49
In reply to Re: To Jeroen » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 14, 2011, at 17:14:06
i have taken clozapine taken witouth blood monitoring test for 6 months
they simply didnt take it, high risk
This is the end of the thread.
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