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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2011, at 10:45:46
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 8:35:13
Hi Matt How is the job hunt going? And don't forget the meetings as they can help deal with anger. And you have lots of friends. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 14:32:22
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2011, at 10:45:46
It is really the job of parents to help their kids move out of home, when they are ready and such.
You are 24 now. My son had been away 5 years by your age. You may find that it doesn't get easier as you get older, being at home. I don't know, it didn't happen to me, I left when I was 17.
Posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 14:55:42
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 14:32:22
I was basically at home till I was 27. My mother definitely created an environment in which it made it more difficult for my brother and I to be prepared for and motivated to move out. It's really quite unhealthy.
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 26, 2011, at 15:20:00
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 14:55:42
I agree with sigi that your focus at this point should be getting out of the house. I know a guy in his 30s who is stuck at home (I'm not entirely sure why) and its amazing how he's consumed by impotent rage and bitterness. Don't let it happen to you.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 26, 2011, at 16:18:38
In reply to I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 25, 2011, at 23:07:22
Hey Matt,
Many people have mixed feelings about their parents, especially their moms. Moms just seem to get in the way somehow no matter what. I know. I am one.
My youngest sibling stayed in our house until she was 30. She kinda got caught there. While my parents helped her try to move out, she became more enmeshed despite everyone's intentions. She did, like some posters above mentioned, become bitter and blameful of others. When she did move out, it was such a boon to her.
Please don't feel ashamed about having mixed feelings about your mom. Get some good therapy, and you might find that
confusion or shame lifting.Keep up the tough work. It can pay off in feeling better about your life. This would be wonderful.
Posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 17:10:37
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 14:55:42
It was extremely stressful for me, their moving out.
But being a parent is a job, and getting what you want is not part of the job description. ie your kids are not there to keep you company, for example, which I would have liked. You learn boundaries. Your kids are not your friends either, even though you can be friendly. I have offered my son a scotch (which he accepted) while we watched Game of Thrones together, but I was very aware of almost crossing a line
They come back, and it is delightful when they do.
Posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 17:16:00
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 14:55:42
My son tells me all the crazy stuff he has done with his friends. It is very amusing. I'm not sure every parent gets to hear it. Some of it is dangerous OF COURSE. Life is dangerous.
Posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2011, at 19:53:02
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » morgan miller, posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 17:16:00
I was gone age 18 and had a baby age 19. I encouraged my children to leave home when college finished. Today they are too indeprendant no need for me. But did my job and gave them wings to fly. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2011, at 8:08:28
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 14:32:22
I hadn't thought to hear you embrace such Western values, Sigi.
http://www.attachmentacrosscultures.org/beliefs/index.html
I think in many areas of New Orleans, we may not embrace that Western ideal of up and out early so much as many areas of the country might. Of emphasis on independence vs. interdependence. Even when kids leave home, they may live down the block or around the corner so that grandkids can visit Maw Maw and Paw Paw easily. There's less expectation that kids will be outa' there once they finish high school. I stayed at home until I married, and I don't regret it. Yes, there were times when that was difficult in the extreme. But it would have been even more difficult for me to be alone or live with strangers. All of life is difficult in one way or another. Adults can choose which difficulty to accept. That's what being an adult is. It's not leaving home, it's choosing whether or not to leave home. It's recognizing and following through on what needs to be done to live at home, or to live outside home.
Living at home might mean contributing to the household monetarily or by sharing in the tasks that need to be done to maintain that household. It might mean recognizing that there may be house rules that might not apply if one maintained one's own roof. Living separately means the responsibility of seeking means to support oneself, and the ability to live alone or with strangers. The challenges of growing up are there either way.
Western mothers have also been encouraged to stop breast feeding early, to leave a baby to cry itself to sleep, to not carry them around so much. In some cultures, kids are sent away to boarding school at an early age. From the time a baby arrives, Western culture puts a premium on separation from parents at an early age than many other cultures.
I think I reject that. While I stopped breast feeding at six months (in part because I was being pressured to start taking antidepressants for my post partum depression), I am not positive that was a good decision. As agreeable as my son was in following rules, he strongly resisted any efforts to get him to do something before he was ready. So he slept alone when he was ready. He stayed in his snugli when he seemed to need to do so and was on his own when he wanted to be. He potty trained when he felt motivated (and not one second before).
He's free to leave home when he's ready. Whether that means across town or across the world. We'll be sorry to see him go and will always be glad to have him visit, but that's what being a parent means. We know that going into the deal. On the other hand, we're not going to peck him out of the nest until he feels ready to fly away himself. As in most other steps in his life, he will make it when he's ready and we'll support him when he makes that decision.
Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2011, at 8:29:16
In reply to I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 25, 2011, at 23:07:22
I'm not familiar with your mother, other than that you feel like she controls your life. Is she physically or emotionally abusive?
She can't control your life unless you allow her to. So really, she has no ability to control your life at all. We've always been clear in our house that power comes with responsibility. In smaller ways, that means that my son is given more power to make choices as he shows the ability to be responsible for those choices. In a larger sense, it means that he is free from house rules when he is fully self supporting. If he is at home, he's expected to live by house rules - rules we live by ourselves, certainly. But rules we set. He's free to try to convince us to change those rules, of course. He doesn't have an absolute right to privacy, though we will respect his privacy unless we have reason to believe he is in trouble. If he goes to college on our dollar, he will show us his grades and maintain decent grades.
Those are our house rules. Once he's an adult he has the choice to live by those rules or to be self supporting and make up his own rules. He has that power.
You have that power as well. If you choose to live at home and live by your mother's rules, it makes sense to come to some degree of acceptance about that. To recognize that it is your choice. To try as an adult to convince her that some rules need to be changed, by showing her that you are responsible enough to handle that change.
If you don't choose to live by her rules, you can leave her home, leave your city, leave your state. You can then support yourself, or apply for help from the proper agency.
The first step in growing up is to recognize what choices you have and that you are living with those choices.
I think if I found out my son spoke about me as you have sometimes spoken of your mother, staying at home might not be one of his choices. On the other hand, I wouldn't speak of him that way either. Showing respect is one of the household rules that all of us are supposed to live by. I wouldn't hate him or reject him forever, and would always welcome him back if he was willing to follow house rules.
You are making a choice to stay there, Matt. Why be this angry with your mother for the consequences of your choice? You are using energy that might be more profitably utilized elsewhere.
Posted by sigismund on September 27, 2011, at 12:25:35
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » sigismund, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2011, at 8:08:28
I hadn't expected to gain such pleasure in helping my kids learn how to find their way in the world and in particular earn a living.
This meant being involved, working with them rather than against them, and having a think about what they might do.
One of them is studying Buddhism in Kathmandu, one does animation, one is working toward law. The important thing for me is that we are friends. See, I've contradicted myself. But we are in this world to help each other, not torment each other.
I loved what you said about breast feeding, sleeping together and toilet training, not to speak of boarding schools. I completely agree. But I never forget what a hard world it can be to find your way in and through.
Posted by Solstice on September 27, 2011, at 20:28:59
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2011, at 8:29:16
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2011, at 22:16:10
In reply to Dinah's got Tons of Wisdom for you, Matt (nm), posted by Solstice on September 27, 2011, at 20:28:59
I agree.
Words are easy, though. I imagine you feel trapped with no way out. You simply don't have the experience to perform many of the tasks required for you to create your independence. At this juncture, you have no history of success. This weighs heavily on you and prevents you from developing self-esteem. As miserable as you are in your current situation, it somehow feels safer and more comfortable to stay rather than leave. To walk out the door is for you to enter a foreign land fraught with fears of the unknown. You are not alone in feeling that way, however. People do all the time what you must now consider doing for yourself.
Perhaps it is time for you to construct one or more plans that will help you make the transition to independence practicable. One option you have is to seek out agencies and charities that will help you find a roof to put over your head and food in your belly. You need to learn how to survive first before you can learn how to fly. It won't be easy at first, but you should be okay.
The first step is the hardest and most frightening. As Dinah said, you have control over you. You need to recognize this.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on September 28, 2011, at 14:37:56
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » Dinah, posted by sigismund on September 27, 2011, at 12:25:35
> I hadn't expected to gain such pleasure in helping my kids learn how to find their way in the world and in particular earn a living.
>
> This meant being involved, working with them rather than against them, and having a think about what they might do.
>
> One of them is studying Buddhism in Kathmandu, one does animation, one is working toward law. The important thing for me is that we are friends. See, I've contradicted myself. But we are in this world to help each other, not torment each other.
>
> I loved what you said about breast feeding, sleeping together and toilet training, not to speak of boarding schools. I completely agree. But I never forget what a hard world it can be to find your way in and through.I doubt that I will ever be my son's friend, any more than I was my father's friend. I was his beloved daughter - not that he'd admit that in so many words. I cherish the memories of the things we did together, and understand now the many things he did for my brother and me. We talked for hours at a time. I miss that so much. I suspect that my son won't think of me the way I think of my father, but hope that our relationship will be better than my relationship with my mother. I not only love my son, I like my son very much, and I hope that when he's an adult he'll like and respect me. I try to be someone he *can* like and respect. But I don't think he could ever be my friend.
From what you say about helping your children succeed in life, I think that's very admirable. I was talking to my therapist about what I wrote, and admitted that my fear of "growing up" was in large part a fear of being alone on a fundamental level. Because growing up does tend to mean independence in our Western world, and I so much prefer interdependence. From what you say, I think we don't differ that much in our views on the mater. Maybe we just phrase them differently.
I have suspicion that my son will be better able to negotiate his way through the hard world than I am. We've really focused our parental energy into having him be self motivated and capable of independent thinking. We aren't wealthy people, and I don't know how much practical assistance we can give him as an adult. But we hoped that in giving him the best education we could, and by raising him in the best Montessori practices of self efficacy that he will be able to tackle the world when he's good and ready. Where he chooses to do that is less important to us, I think.
Posted by Dinah on September 28, 2011, at 14:50:10
In reply to Re: Dinah's got Tons of Wisdom for you, Matt, posted by SLS on September 27, 2011, at 22:16:10
I thank you both, but I do understand that words are easier than actions. I do understand how hard it will be for you, Matt.
What I wonder is, if your mother is not physically or emotionally abusive, if you could start developing the skills you need while still living at home? Treat your mother with basics of respect you would show anyone you lived with. Recognize that for now at least her rules are part of the landscape like a hill or a valley. They just are. No point in wasting effort trying to move the hill or fill in the valley. Becoming a mature adult doesn't rely on a location change. it relies on a more internal change.
Identify your goals. To be specific, goals that do not involve obtaining amphetamines. Which of your current behaviors is contributing to achieving those goals? Is your current attitude towards your mother achieving your goals? Your goals may be to move out. But perhaps an equally good goal is to develop those skills to help you successfully move out and live on your own. Start small and work from there. Unless you are happy with things as you are, developing responsible habits are in your best interests.
The funny thing is that if you act as if you are a responsible adult capable of living on your own, the actions eventually change the reality.
That's purely a pragmatic view.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 21:56:18
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Zyprexa on September 26, 2011, at 0:41:31
my mother isnt that bad. I keep blaming people for the way my outcomes came out. I need to start taking responsiblity for my own choices. My mom loves me and maybe a little too much. The reason I got angry with this sitaution is because I can't go back on stimulants because of my mother. That's why I resent her. Now to be realistic, that's not really a valid reason to be mad about that. There are alot of people who go through abuse in homes and never live with that person again.
The thing is I can't hold a job with out taking stimulants. Today I got sent home for not being productive and it really SUCKS. I feel so bad about myself because I didt reach my goals to move out.
My mother is not psychially abusive nor emotionally abusive. There is just one rule in the house. No Stimulants allowed in the house. She does track what I do and makes sure i don't go to diffrent doctors to get what I want. And maybe that is good thing. I wished I had someone else in my life that would love me. I mean there's my brother and he doesnt show much love to me anymore because i refused to speak with him and it just made everything fall apart relationship wise.
Thanks Zyprexa. I will find a job.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:02:27
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by morgan miller on September 26, 2011, at 8:35:13
Yes I think a therpist would be good again. I need to see a therpist. I also need to stop blaming people for my errors and take it in for myself and take responsiblity. I do have alot of complications. Like today I went in to work and they sent me home for not being productive. I need to be on a stimulant for attention purposes. These are the goals: to get my own place, pay for my insurance, and being able to support myself. I don't know how I am going to do it but I need to find a way to do it quick. Thank you for your imput.
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:06:23
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2011, at 10:45:46
I am actually in the process of finding another job because the one I have is not liking me much, they sent me home today and I was nothing but pure depreession when I found about this. Self pity, self decpetion, self obsession. Are what I suffer from. No one wants a pity party.
Its time that I pull my bootstraps up and get to work.
I love you!!
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:11:18
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages, posted by sigismund on September 26, 2011, at 14:32:22
Right. My parents are tight on money and they can't afford getting me a place. Yes my mother has always told me I willl make it and then nothing happens. I think its just the female compassioate voice in the picture. I really want to get out so bad.
Matt
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:12:35
In reply to Re: I'm starting to regret my hate messages » rjlockhart04-08, posted by floatingbridge on September 26, 2011, at 16:18:38
I will!!
thank you!!
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:17:04
In reply to Re: Dinah's got Tons of Wisdom for you, Matt, posted by SLS on September 27, 2011, at 22:16:10
What kind of agencies?? i've googled alot and the only thing I've found is homeless shelters.
Yes I know about being self independnt and its really going to be hard taking that first step. Thank you for your message
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2011, at 23:00:16
In reply to phillipa, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:06:23
Matt love you too am I still second Mom? Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on September 30, 2011, at 0:52:49
In reply to morgan miller, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:02:27
> Yes I think a therpist would be good again. I need to see a therpist. I also need to stop blaming people for my errors and take it in for myself and take responsiblity. I do have alot of complications. Like today I went in to work and they sent me home for not being productive. I need to be on a stimulant for attention purposes. These are the goals: to get my own place, pay for my insurance, and being able to support myself. I don't know how I am going to do it but I need to find a way to do it quick. Thank you for your imput.
>
> MattFocus first on feeling well and loving yourself. No need to rush too fast to do the other stuff, though they are important.
The other people in your life likely do have some blame in your struggles(i.e. your parents). This is something you will have to address in therapy and use it as a tool to understand things better in a way that you can be more compassionate with yourself. You need to let yourself off the hook to some extent, otherwise you will end up hardened like so many other people out there. Another thing to be careful of is not to get bitter when you start to understand more about how your childhood affected you. There will be anger, but it is important to try hard to deal with it in the right way.
Take care Matt, hope things start to turn around soon.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:48:18
In reply to SLS, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 22:17:04
> What kind of agencies?? i've googled alot and the only thing I've found is homeless shelters.
>
> Yes I know about being self independnt and its really going to be hard taking that first step. Thank you for your messageI used Easter Seals when I was about to become homeless. They specialize in working with people who have mental illnesses.
Also, locally:
CSP
CPCYou could start by visiting your county human services department and get a list of organizations that would be helpful to you. If you are lucky, your state will have openings in their Section 8 rental assistence program. They pay for at least 2/3 of the rent. This way, you could live alone and develop the skills necessary to function independently.
You might also check out NAMI and DBSA for resources that you can take advantage of.
I think it would be easier and healthier for you to move out than to try to live with your mother and capitulate to her controlling behaviors. However, while you two are living under the same roof, you could use much of Dinah's advice to make things more tolerable.
I wish I had more to offer you.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2011, at 5:52:44
In reply to zyprexa, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 29, 2011, at 21:56:18
> my mother isnt that bad. I keep blaming people for the way my outcomes came out. I need to start taking responsiblity for my own choices. My mom loves me and maybe a little too much. The reason I got angry with this sitaution is because I can't go back on stimulants because of my mother. That's why I resent her. Now to be realistic, that's not really a valid reason to be mad about that. There are alot of people who go through abuse in homes and never live with that person again.
>
> My mother is not psychially abusive nor emotionally abusive. There is just one rule in the house.Perhaps you should disregard my previous post with respect to the comments I made your mother. I was influenced by some of your previous posts about her.
- Scott
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