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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 7:01:24
Idle speculation. No, research. Avid advice seeking?
While down to xanax cr (1.5 mg daily) and norco 15mgs daily), I am realizing I am a royally volatile, angry, bitter, unpleasant person. I can't stand myself (old news, but without the buffer of 15 meds, there's no distraction).
My pdoc has thrown in the towel. He hasn't quit. I suspect he's waiting for me to.
I am highly ambivalent about committing to any medication. The best talk I ever had in recent years was with a new therapist whom I was able to confide
that I was incredibly ambivalent about being alive. Since I am, I'm stuck with it. Never had plans to remove myself. But life is painful and frightening every day.Should I bother to try an maoi or serezone? Am I too raw to try anything now? Maybe in a few months off AD's I
won't be the world's angriest woman, though certainly I could be even more friendless.I am so very bitter. And afriad of dissapearing. Being proven worthless.
Asleep tonight at ten, up since 1:30.
fb
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 7:49:26
In reply to road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 7:01:24
Without guarantees of an ethereal infinity in paradise, what better choice do you have but to continue searching in this world for your health and happiness?
- Scott
> Idle speculation. No, research. Avid advice seeking?
>
> While down to xanax cr (1.5 mg daily) and norco 15mgs daily), I am realizing I am a royally volatile, angry, bitter, unpleasant person. I can't stand myself (old news, but without the buffer of 15 meds, there's no distraction).
>
> My pdoc has thrown in the towel. He hasn't quit. I suspect he's waiting for me to.
>
> I am highly ambivalent about committing to any medication. The best talk I ever had in recent years was with a new therapist whom I was able to confide
> that I was incredibly ambivalent about being alive. Since I am, I'm stuck with it. Never had plans to remove myself. But life is painful and frightening every day.
>
> Should I bother to try an maoi or serezone? Am I too raw to try anything now? Maybe in a few months off AD's I
> won't be the world's angriest woman, though certainly I could be even more friendless.
>
> I am so very bitter. And afriad of dissapearing. Being proven worthless.
>
> Asleep tonight at ten, up since 1:30.
>
> fb
Posted by hyperfocus on April 13, 2011, at 11:09:41
In reply to road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 7:01:24
> Idle speculation. No, research. Avid advice seeking?
amitriptyline at night. If you haven't tried it, please do. If your pdoc doesn't want to prescribe it find another one who does. For depression, anxiety, pain and insomnia it's worth a serious try. If you take it at night you won't get sedated in the way. Side-effects can be managed.
> While down to xanax cr (1.5 mg daily) and norco 15mgs daily), I am realizing I am a royally volatile, angry, bitter, unpleasant person. I can't stand myself (old news, but without the buffer of 15 meds, there's no distraction).
>
One day I'm going to start a project videographing people with mental illness - following them around for like 24hrs and videotaping everything they do and all their interactions with their families and friends. Then I'm going to show it to them. Then they're going to realize that all their assumptions about their behavior are completely false. You know why you're so hard on yourself fb? Because you know the right way to act and think and treat other people. Most people don't. You might be all of the things you wrote right now but inside you're still a good person because you know what the right thing is. So you snap at your family or you don't have the energy to spend time with your kid. Ok now compare yourself with the average wife and mother out there. Think you're worse than them? Nope. Even at your lowest you're still miles above the average. And your family knows this. I saw a headline about a mom who drove her kids into a river. I bet she didn't feel half-as-much guilt and remorse as you do right now.> My pdoc has thrown in the towel. He hasn't quit. I suspect he's waiting for me to.
>
A lot of pdocs will quit on you - intellectually detach themselves from your case and label you as untreatable or treatment-resistant. They wash their hands of your pain and convince themselves that there are just people who medical science can't help. If your pdoc does this, find another one.> I am highly ambivalent about committing to any medication. The best talk I ever had in recent years was with a new therapist whom I was able to confide
> that I was incredibly ambivalent about being alive. Since I am, I'm stuck with it. Never had plans to remove myself. But life is painful and frightening every day.
>
Yeah but I guess the calculus you should be using is: I hurt therefore I am. I bleed because I care. I tear myself up inside because I'm a good person. Being good and in pain is better than being evil and feeling no remorse. Being alive and in pain is better than not being alive and feeling nothing. Better I hurt myself than I hurt anybody else.> Should I bother to try an maoi or serezone? Am I too raw to try anything now? Maybe in a few months off AD's I
> won't be the world's angriest woman, though certainly I could be even more friendless.
>
> I am so very bitter. And afriad of dissappearing. Being proven worthless.I think you and SLS and everybody on PB care about life more than any set of people I've ever met in RL. You all care about life too much - that's why you hurt so much. That's why we all think about disappearing - we'd rather disappear than not live right. If like 1% more people were like you guys this world would be such a better place. You are worth more than a whole continent of 'normal' folks.
>
> Asleep tonight at ten, up since 1:30.
>
> fb
Just take it easy on yourself - don't pile on everything at once. ok so you're not s;eeping well - but it's not an absolute catastrophe you know? You'll fix it, you'll get to that eventually. Sleeping late or insomnia isn't the worst thing a person can do.
Posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2011, at 11:43:26
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by hyperfocus on April 13, 2011, at 11:09:41
FB you didn't write me during the night btw just this am. I think you are a sweetheart. Always kind with great things and advise for others. Time to take care of you. I have to digest what you wrote and will reply later. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 12:20:56
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by hyperfocus on April 13, 2011, at 11:09:41
hp, I started crying reading your post. I want to be a good person, you're right there. But I look at my shell-shocked family, my scared pdoc who is now remote as all heck, my social anxiety that keeps me from people I need.
I open my mouth, out flies criticism. I've seen the I better cool it, mom's rabid again look in my son's eyes.
You can't convince me. I don't know what to do and why I hold on to this cr*p. My husband is toast. Everyone is worried or scared of me. I certainly am.
Instead, I could spend that time like other people do--and I don't mean *ss-hole litter bugs and oil spillers.
I can't enjoy my family. I always ruin it--yes, I heard you about the camera. On the outside. But on the inside, I feel like I just come apart in the shower; sometimes I avoid them.
I limit my son because of my fears and also physical illness. He already shows signs of anxiety.
Yes, I take on too much responsibility for everything. Still. The dissounance (sp!) between the inside and the outside feel far too great.
I just don't know what to say. I'm gonna be quiet and just try to drink in your kind words and not argue, o.k.?
Thank you.
fb
Then there is the take or not to take question. Medication. Shelve it. I see the pdoc next week, maybe for the last time. Amitryptal. My pdoc says I couldn't take the sides. But I guess I'm firing him, maybe. My gp suggested it, then withdrew it. Everyone is fixated on the d*mn taper (norco).
Oiy! Enough. Thanks for your ear.
How are you getting on?
fb
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 12:31:29
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by hyperfocus on April 13, 2011, at 11:09:41
Hyperfocus:
> I think you and SLS and everybody on PB care about life more than any set of people I've ever met in RL. You all care about life too much - that's why you hurt so much. That's why we all think about disappearing - we'd rather disappear than not live right. If like 1% more people were like you guys this world would be such a better place. You are worth more than a whole continent of 'normal' folks.
Thank you.
I like your idea to record a day in the life of a sufferer of mental illness. Choosing to live with these illnesses is an act of extreme courage, especially in the absence of the type of hope to be born from logic. It is when no logical alternative presents itself that the most basal of hope emerges. I think it is a fundamental property of humans to have hope in the face of hopelessness.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 12:33:54
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 7:49:26
Scott, that's the rub. And some people just don't get what we may deserve--a feeling alright place. The world is full of more injustice than I care to know. But to talk to that therapist was gold. She just listened and then said and now what do you want to do? No fixing. No meds. Yeah, it's painful to be (meaning me) to be alive. What do you want to do?
I felt refreshed. I didn't tell her anything She wanted to hear. I just talked. Got up and threw wads of Kleenex in her wastebasket with abandon, lol.
Who really cares? I guess I only keep score now for my son. Great. Now I'm all teary again.
Thanks Scott. I'm glad you're posting again for as long as it works for you.
fb
Is Spring still enjoyable this year?
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 12:35:40
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2011, at 11:43:26
(((Thanks Phillipa)))
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 12:39:45
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » hyperfocus, posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 12:31:29
Choosing to live with these illnesses is an act of extreme courage, especially in the absence of the type of hope to be born from logic. It is when no logical alternative presents itself that the most basal of hope emerges. I think it is a fundamental property of humans to have hope in the face of hopelessness.
>
>
> - Scott
>Now is that crazy or what? Or is it grace?
I'll have to get back to you on it :D
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 13:03:28
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » hyperfocus, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 12:20:56
Does it help to know that depression is a liar? Perhaps you can identify the lies that yours is telling you. You might better be able to appreciate the warping of perceptions that depression exerts on everyone who suffers from it.
You might be reacting to the pain and frustration that depression is causing you by becoming globally angry at everyone and everything. This is a matter of the psyche and can be changed. It might also be that agitation is a matter of the abnormalities in the function of the brain that can occur with depression. This agitation presents as anger, for which you must search out a culprit when there really is none. The culprit you have chosen to assign blame to is you. I guess there is the appearance of logic here. If it is not everyone else who is responsible for your "reprehensible" behavior, it must therefore be you. After all, there is no one left to blame.
Do you feel that there is a lack of communication and self-disclosure with the people around you regarding what you experience in life while you are in your ill state? You might stop blaming yourself for the manifestations of a biological illness for which you have little control over. You are not responsible. I am sure that you are doing the best that you can with what you have to work with.
I like you. Why is that?
- Scott
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 13:44:58
In reply to road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 7:01:24
Just wanted to tell you that your crisis could be caused by decreasing your dose of norco. Opioid withdrawal has been known to cause self-loathing and shame spirals. It will get better.
Posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 13:57:06
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 13:44:58
FB, so sorry you are dealing with this crisis of spirit and existence. I really do hope things get better soon.
I agree that opiod withdrawal may be responsible for things going downhill so fast. You did not appear to be in a very good place to begin with, so withdrawing from Norco is like throwing gasoline on to the burning coals.
Is there anything that has calmed you and given you relief in the past that has not caused any major side effects? A low to moderate dose of lithium? I'm always talking about lithium, I guess because I see so many people respond to it. What about a moderate dose of Depakote? I consider these treatments at moderate to low doses to be both neuroprotective and anger/mood modifying. Neither of them have to be permanent treatments, just ways of to help put out the fire. What do you think?
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 14:01:42
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 13:57:06
Have you tried low dose Naltrexone yet? I believe you were considering it. I'm wondering why neither your GP or your Pdoc has gone for a Naltrexone trial, it just doesn't make sense to me, especially considering your withdrawal from Norco. Maybe you have not suggested it to them. Doctors frustrate the heck out of me. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't even consider the treatments I've suggested to necessarily be desperate or risky, I know some that are on one of three of these-depakote, lithium, and naltrexone-simply for neuroprotection/longevity and mood enhancement, in the absence of any real issues with mental illness.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 14:04:49
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 13:44:58
> Just wanted to tell you that your crisis could be caused by decreasing your dose of norco. Opioid withdrawal has been known to cause self-loathing and shame spirals.
I didn't know that.
That is a critical insight. So, opioid withdrawal is one heck of a liar.
- Scott
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 14:54:30
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » mtdewcmu, posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 14:04:49
> > Just wanted to tell you that your crisis could be caused by decreasing your dose of norco. Opioid withdrawal has been known to cause self-loathing and shame spirals.
>
> I didn't know that.
>
> That is a critical insight. So, opioid withdrawal is one heck of a liar.It's not necessarily lying. But sometimes you can't handle the truth.
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2011, at 15:32:29
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 14:54:30
> > > Just wanted to tell you that your crisis could be caused by decreasing your dose of norco. Opioid withdrawal has been known to cause self-loathing and shame spirals.
> >
> > I didn't know that.
> >
> > That is a critical insight. So, opioid withdrawal is one heck of a liar.
>
> It's not necessarily lying. But sometimes you can't handle the truth.I should think that it is not the truth that someone is avoiding when they are suffering from acute withdrawal, regardless of extant "truths".
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 15:38:35
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 14:54:30
>It's not necessarily lying. But sometimes you can't handle the truth.
I would say that most of us have a very hard time with the truth most of the time. Not talking about you FB : )
Posted by sigismund on April 13, 2011, at 16:15:00
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 15:38:35
Human kind cannot bear very much reality.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:27:45
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by sigismund on April 13, 2011, at 16:15:00
> Human kind cannot bear very much reality.
I did see one of my roosters butchered this week. I eat meat. That was plenty of truth for awhile.
We sang an North African killing song (for guinnea birds) that helped. Everyone was reverent. I didn't have the nerve to eat my rooster. I gave it to my good farm friends.
The blood was brilliant red, then very quickly dulled. Flute's last moments. He kicked and kicked after his head was removed--his life force in that body was so strong. I couldn't help feeling that I betrayed him. I did.
Guess avoid slaughterhouses while on norco tapers. :(
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:32:17
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 13:44:58
Oh fabulous. Well, MtDew, thank you. That does help. I just am already such a shame weakling :-/
I will keep this in mind. The step from 30 to 20 was nothing like this 20 to 15mg.
Very good information. I am grateful.
I will make no plans except to clear my schedule and practice self-kindness (when possible ;) ).
fb
You smartie, you.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:44:39
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 15:38:35
> >It's not necessarily lying. But sometimes you can't handle the truth.
>
> I would say that most of us have a very hard time with the truth most of the time. Not talking about you FB : )Silly Billy, it's as difficult for me as anyone. Now I'm thinking something ridiculous and unpleasant: that gawd awful movie about some court martial and Jack Nickelson vs that perpetual enemy of psychiatry super star, Mr.
Cruise. Remember that film?I surrendered all my unused meds. The cupboards are bare of lithium. Dr's seem to think this is just alright, you know. I have reupped my xanax to my upper allowed level. That's all I have. Both gp & pdoc say 'sit tight'. Very quaint.
I can understand that in order to reboot, a doctor would prefer less chemical interference, esp after scaring everyone with my Lyrica reaction :(
Still, had one said to me what MtDew had; what a difference that could make, eh?
Thanks Morgan. I'll let you know when the dust settles.
Hugs dude!
Posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:48:25
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:44:39
Posted by morgan miller on April 14, 2011, at 1:26:35
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 16:44:39
FB, even in your worst state, you still have your spirit. You appear to be quite strong. I bet most people in your situation would have no where close the amount of restraint and control that you have.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 1:40:12
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 14, 2011, at 1:26:35
Morgan, that's one of the kindest thing everv said about me. Wow. Thanks :)
I'm sooooo relieved MtDew posted that comment about norco taper. Guess I'll make it :D
I am feeling great amounts of gratitude for the folks here at babble. You included.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 1:53:11
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 13, 2011, at 14:01:42
Morgan, gp wants to try it, but she said it would bring on instant withdrawal and She wants to spare me. I don't know if she means completely off, or down to 10 or 5 of norco. See her Monday.
Read the letter my DO sent my gp. Says I need to go forward with pain meds. But what? What is there besides narcotics and AD's?
Sigh.
Will start LDN asap. Will post progress. Have You tried it?
BTW, hope you are alright.
fb
> Have you tried low dose Naltrexone yet? I believe you were considering it. I'm wondering why neither your GP or your Pdoc has gone for a Naltrexone trial, it just doesn't make sense to me, especially considering your withdrawal from Norco. Maybe you have not suggested it to them. Doctors frustrate the heck out of me. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't even consider the treatments I've suggested to necessarily be desperate or risky, I know some that are on one of three of these-depakote, lithium, and naltrexone-simply for neuroprotection/longevity and mood enhancement, in the absence of any real issues with mental illness.
>
> Morgan
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