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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
So Nardil, how I hate and love, well mostly hate you at the moment. This has been one wilde journey trying to find a dosage that will work for me, and to this point not so much luck. When I got to 60mg I noticed a slight improvement in the work was more manageable but I stopped sleeping. So, after several weeks I decided to go up to 75mgs where I started to feel better. However, my side effects dramatically increased, continued insomnia, orthostatic hypotension (i seem to really struggle with this one), anorgasmia, etc. But even though I wasn't sleeping, I was still able to perform better at work and in life while on 75mg, but ultimately I couldn't maintain it because of the lack of sleep and hypotension issues. So, I decided to go back down to 60mg in hopes that things would regulate a bit better, which the side effects did begin to diminish, but of course with my luck, so did my mood. At this point, I decided that I would go up so slowly back towards 75mg that maybe I could manage the side effects while finding a therapeutic dose. However, amazingly after going up 1/4 of a pill to 63.75 mg of course I stopped sleeping again. I gave it a few weeks at that dose, but I still felt like crap and had more side effects. So, again I have now just went back down to 60mg. My new great idea is to hopefully have the side effects again regulate to some degree and sleep better for as long as I can possibly handle it, and prepare myself for no sleep again when I go back up to 75mg. At that point, I would really like to continue up to 90mg after a few weeks if my body can at all handle it. Not because I think I need that much for an effective dose, but hopefully so that I can find a higher level of medication and mao inhibition so that eventually I could go back down to something higher than 60mg and start regulating away from the side effects. I do not want to start a sleep aid for as long as possible in hopes that if I battle through it I will one day be able to sleep and find an effective dose without possibly becoming dependent on another drug. I'm just at a complete loss now for what I should do, because nothing works as planned. Either the medicine isn't at a therapeutic dose or it takes a huge toll on me physically. If I could eliminate the orthostatic hypotension through the regulation of the medicine, I might be willing to eventually try a sleep aid. But I'm tired of being in a circle of meds when if I could just be on 75mg and have it regulate to some degree at least I could manage it better. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Mantus
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2011, at 19:25:59
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
> So Nardil, how I hate and love, well mostly hate you at the moment. This has been one wilde journey trying to find a dosage that will work for me, and to this point not so much luck. When I got to 60mg I noticed a slight improvement in the work was more manageable but I stopped sleeping. So, after several weeks I decided to go up to 75mgs where I started to feel better. However, my side effects dramatically increased, continued insomnia, orthostatic hypotension (i seem to really struggle with this one), anorgasmia, etc. But even though I wasn't sleeping, I was still able to perform better at work and in life while on 75mg, but ultimately I couldn't maintain it because of the lack of sleep and hypotension issues. So, I decided to go back down to 60mg in hopes that things would regulate a bit better, which the side effects did begin to diminish, but of course with my luck, so did my mood. At this point, I decided that I would go up so slowly back towards 75mg that maybe I could manage the side effects while finding a therapeutic dose. However, amazingly after going up 1/4 of a pill to 63.75 mg of course I stopped sleeping again. I gave it a few weeks at that dose, but I still felt like crap and had more side effects. So, again I have now just went back down to 60mg. My new great idea is to hopefully have the side effects again regulate to some degree and sleep better for as long as I can possibly handle it, and prepare myself for no sleep again when I go back up to 75mg. At that point, I would really like to continue up to 90mg after a few weeks if my body can at all handle it. Not because I think I need that much for an effective dose, but hopefully so that I can find a higher level of medication and mao inhibition so that eventually I could go back down to something higher than 60mg and start regulating away from the side effects. I do not want to start a sleep aid for as long as possible in hopes that if I battle through it I will one day be able to sleep and find an effective dose without possibly becoming dependent on another drug. I'm just at a complete loss now for what I should do, because nothing works as planned. Either the medicine isn't at a therapeutic dose or it takes a huge toll on me physically. If I could eliminate the orthostatic hypotension through the regulation of the medicine, I might be willing to eventually try a sleep aid. But I'm tired of being in a circle of meds when if I could just be on 75mg and have it regulate to some degree at least I could manage it better. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> MantusMantus,
You wrote,[...Nardil..hate..at the moment...trying to find...not so much luck...stopped sleeping...side effects drammatically increased...still felt like....nothing works...tired of being on a circle of meds...any suggestions?...]
When I see someone taking Nardil, I ask myself if they really know what they are putting into their body. Now if one was explained that before they took it, I wonder if they would.
Nardil is a chemical like hydrazine.Hydrazine is an extreamly toxic substance used industrial and in dyes. Hydrazine can be made in a process involving urea and sodium hypochlorite. It was used as a jet fuel in WW2. If you want to explore that aspect, search Messerschmitt Me 163B.
NOw urea is in your urine and in animal's urine. Sodium hypochlorate is used in bleach. So hydrazine is not an expensive chemical to produce. Now would you drink a glass of urea with bleach?
Now there are deaths reported from the use of Nardil. If you wouuld like to look that up, search [Nardil, death].
Lou
Posted by emmanuel98 on March 16, 2011, at 19:42:21
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
I am on parnate, not nardil, but I also had problems with orthostatic hypotension. So much so that my husband put a gate on the upstairs staircase, which is right in front of the bathroom. I had fallen a couple of times going to the bathroom at night. It has gone away though. I think it took about six months before that side effect disappeared.
Posted by MatthewDavid on March 16, 2011, at 19:57:07
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
Hi Mantus, I have a similar issue in regards to sleeploss and these types of meds, I was on luvox and took trazadone to help me sleep and slept like a baby, however after starting nardil I can no longer take trazadone due to the interaction so I researched what sleep meds I can take. I was glad to see seroquel is one of them. I had taken it previously for depression and I'll tell you what even a small dose, (50mg) will knock you out from 9pm until sunrise. When I go to my first week followup regarding the nardil I will be asking for seroquel.
hope this helps
Posted by MatthewDavid on March 16, 2011, at 20:17:52
In reply to Re: More on Nardil, posted by MatthewDavid on March 16, 2011, at 19:57:07
sorry Mantus I should have done a little research first, as you already know what I suggested could make your orthostatic hypotension worse.
Posted by jedi on March 18, 2011, at 12:56:34
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
Mantus, Please don't worry about any fear mongering involving Nardil. There are many that have been on this medication for decades. It has to be taken with respect, but is a lot less dangerous than believed in the past. It is also the only medication that will work for some of us. Yes, it is a hydrazine derivative, so what! Sodium is a metal that burns and can explode violently in water. Chlorine is a poisonous gas. Combined they make salt. A substance we can not live without.It is one medication that can work when all else fail. In my opinion, it is the Gold Standard for atypical depression and social anxiety. I trust Nardil more than many of the newer medications. It has been around for more than 50 years.
The side effects can be worked around. Depression is life threatening. Serious disease sometimes requires serious medications. Obviously chemotherapy is poison, but how many has it saved? Any disease that will take away our survival instinct and have us considering the long dirt nap is a very serious disease. Most people who take their own life suffer from this disease. We are not talking a case of the blues here. We are talking about treatment resistant, down on the floor in a fetal position, life threatening, DEPRESSION!
Good luck in your attempt to make Nardil work for you.
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by jpiper on March 19, 2011, at 9:35:12
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
I feel your pain. That was my experience too when I was on Nardil. It was always a dance with dosage to either keep the depression/SA at bay or the side effects in check.
I did have luck with orthostatic hypotension however. I already had a problem with this symptom before I took Nardil due to other health issues, and so I just continued with my old standby - which is salt tablets and large glasses of water in the morning. I have really low blood pressure and this helps to raise it.
Anyway - just letting you know what helped me. Everyone is different.
Posted by pedr on March 23, 2011, at 17:41:42
In reply to Re: More on Nardil, posted by jpiper on March 19, 2011, at 9:35:12
yes - salt + pints of water also helped with my orthostatic tension. After a few months it went away.
Regarding sleep, that's a tricky one I've not really managed to address. I fall asleep at work and am wide-awake from 11pm onwards...
Posted by mantus on March 23, 2011, at 20:15:01
In reply to Re: More on Nardil » jpiper, posted by pedr on March 23, 2011, at 17:41:42
How much salt or salt tablets do you intake to improve raise your bp?
Mantus
Posted by pedr on March 23, 2011, at 20:23:59
In reply to Re: More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 23, 2011, at 20:15:01
I only used salt tabs when I was out and about. Normally I would put a tablespoon of salt in a pint of water and neck it (drinking sea water first thing in the morning is not the nicest...)
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on March 30, 2011, at 18:57:12
In reply to More on Nardil, posted by mantus on March 16, 2011, at 17:51:34
For the hypotension, ask your doctor about Florinef, 0.1mg each morning.... it causes the body to retain salt and water and thus prevents hypotension.
For the sleep, somthing like Zoldipem at bedtime would seem reasonable, if nardil is the only drug that works for you, but it keeps you awake. The risk of dependence and tolorance is reasonably low, and it would certainly help you get a decent nights sleep.
This is the end of the thread.
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