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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 9:50:29
Hi Everyone
I am desperate after 7 nights ( which seems to be a continual pattern) of only 2-3 hours of sleep. I am able to fall asleep no problem, but can't stay asleep.
I also am very irritable and have high anxiety.
Any Suggestions?
I Cannot take benzos or SSRIs.
Thanks!
Posted by Phillipa on September 7, 2010, at 10:31:29
In reply to HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety?, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 9:50:29
Any idea why you are not sleeping. I hate to recommend an atypical antipsychotic, there is trazadone some say works great for sleep. Rest I know of are benzos like restoril, or lunesta, or ambien. Phillipa
Posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 17:10:06
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Zandy, posted by Phillipa on September 7, 2010, at 10:31:29
Hi Phillipa,
I am not sleeping because I am withdrawing from benzos. I am currently in transition phase of switching over from Ativan to Valium. Dr told me less withdrawal symptoms with valium because it has a longer half-life.
I am switching over very slowly, then when I am on Valium only (no more Ativan) I will begin a slow wean off Valium. It is probably going to take 8 months or more, so I really need a good sleep aid.
My Dr called in a new sleep aid today called Silenor. It is very new and the Pharmacy is hoping it will be finally available this Friday or next week. It is a weaker version of doxepin and comes in 3 and 6 mg strengths.
Because the dose is so low it is supposed to have almost no side effects.
I don't know if you remember, the doctors inadvertently shut down my HPA axis and I went into adrenal crisis.
Well, as it turns out Benzos can suppress your HPA axis and that is why I have to go off them. (It even says it on Wikipedia! Who knew?)
Maybe that is why my HPA axis shut down after they gave me the glucocorticosteroid pain shot to begin with. I had been 1st on Xanax for about 9 years, then Ativan for about 3 years.
Tonight I think I am going to add 1/2 of a 25 mg Bovine to the mix and see what happens.
Wish me luck!
Posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 17:12:59
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Phillipa, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 17:10:06
Correction.... I meant Bonine, not Bovine. I mis-spelled it!
Posted by sigismund on September 7, 2010, at 17:26:14
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Phillipa, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 17:10:06
I fully understand what it is like to get by on 3 hours sleep a night, and like you I have wondered about whether long term benzo use has wrecked my ability to sleep permanently.
My problem is that if I only have 3 hours a night, I feel so bad next day that I have an increased need of benzos.
At the moment I take 300mg gabapentin at bedtime to help me sleep more deeply and it is moderately effective. Perhaps there is some awful downside, but at that dose it is not hard to give up.
If you can manage it, only take whatever Valium you take at night.
You could try these things....it's what I do every night
tryptophan 1g
Corydalis concentrate
agomelatine (used to help with sleep once)
and then there's herbs....
skullcap
zizyphus
sedative formulas from Traditional Chinese medicine
graviola....which I haven't tried
mulungu.....which I haven't tried either.
Posted by Phillipa on September 7, 2010, at 20:27:42
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Phillipa, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 17:10:06
Zandy oh wow!!!!! You have a link to this or what did you type in to search. And I must look up this med. And of course good luck. Phillipa hey post updates as I feel others would love to know of your progress
Posted by Stoli on September 8, 2010, at 21:30:52
In reply to HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety?, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 9:50:29
I second Silenor. I've done a lot of research and it seems to be safe and effective. Should be available very shortly so ask your doctor.
Posted by morgan miller on September 8, 2010, at 21:49:46
In reply to HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety?, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 9:50:29
Lemon balm
Passion flower
GABA
Glycine-May be the best option for giving you deeper more quality sleep-2 to 3 grams
Melatonin
Ashwagandha
Magnesium-glycinate or taurinateThe best pharmaceutical option is probably a low dose of Pregabalin(Lyrica), maybe 75 mg. Lyrica is like the bigger more powerful brother to Gabapentin(Neurontin). Over at mindandmuscle.net, several people have reported very sound deep uninterrupted sleep on Lyrica. There are some studies to back up the effects of Lyrica on sleep.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16171242
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1978334/
Posted by Phillipa on September 8, 2010, at 21:52:31
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety?, posted by morgan miller on September 8, 2010, at 21:49:46
This med I googled and says it's the TCA doxepin? New? Phillipa
Posted by Zandy on September 11, 2010, at 17:23:01
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Zandy, posted by Phillipa on September 7, 2010, at 20:27:42
> Zandy oh wow!!!!! You have a link to this or what did you type in to search. And I must look up this med. And of course good luck. Phillipa hey post updates as I feel others would love to know of your progress
Silenor is Doxepin, but it comes in 3mg and 6mg dosages. It is made by Somaxon (www.Somaxon.com). Because the dosage is so low it supposedly does not have the adverse/side effects of the 10mg Doxepin, and no rebound insomnia or withdrawal. It will be available to the public hopefully on the 20th of Sept. Walgreens is keeping on top of it for me and will let me know as soon as it comes in. My DR already called in the RX in anticipation. In the mean time I have discovered Bonine. It is different from other antihistamines (ex - Benadryl, Promethazine, dramanine, etc.) in that it doesn't make you dizzy and have less next day drowsiness/hangover. My DR gave me the ok to use it until the Silenor gets to the Pharmacy.I found Silenor on rxlist.com. My DR says it is a good website. Just do a search for Silenor, then scroll down and click on Silenor (doxepin). It will give you alot of info on it.
You can also go to Somaxons website and look at the prescribing information. And if you call their main phone number you can ask them for a special phone number they set up just for questions about Silenor.
When I get it , I will let you know how it works for me.
Hope this helps!!!
Posted by Maxime on September 11, 2010, at 19:52:01
In reply to HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety?, posted by Zandy on September 7, 2010, at 9:50:29
Are you okay with trying a TCA? Amitriptyline works well. You will only need a small dose so you won't get all the side effects that come with taking a TCA.
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2010, at 21:18:30
In reply to NEW med for insomnia called Silenor » Phillipa, posted by Zandy on September 11, 2010, at 17:23:01
Zandy I did google and found it was a TCA. I tried them actually three times and it didn't work out for me. Yes please let me know how it goes Phillipa
Posted by Zandy on September 15, 2010, at 19:16:02
In reply to Re: HELP what is best nonbenzo for insomnia/anxiety? » Zandy, posted by Maxime on September 11, 2010, at 19:52:01
> Are you okay with trying a TCA? Amitriptyline works well. You will only need a small dose so you won't get all the side effects that come with taking a TCA.
No, I did not know it was a TCA. That probably explains why it made me tearful, as all the antidepressants usually have that effect on me. I was very dissapointed in it. I got 1 1/2 hours LESS sleep on it than taking the antihistamine Bonine that you can buy at any drug store.
Tonight I am trying a natural remedy called Irwin's Power to sleep. A lady at the Health food store says it is their best seller. I brought it to my Doctor and he looked at the ingredients and told me it was safe and okay for me to take with the benzos. Hope it works. Wish me luck!
Posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2010, at 21:42:45
In reply to Silenor came in, tried it, dissapointed! » Maxime, posted by Zandy on September 15, 2010, at 19:16:02
Good luck and please post. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 16, 2010, at 19:40:32
In reply to Silenor came in, tried it, dissapointed! » Maxime, posted by Zandy on September 15, 2010, at 19:16:02
I hope it works as well. Let us know!
Posted by Zandy on September 18, 2010, at 15:15:23
In reply to Re: Silenor came in, tried it, dissapointed! » Zandy, posted by Maxime on September 16, 2010, at 19:40:32
I went back to using Bonine, a antihistamine that you can pick up at most grocery or drug stores. Both the Bonine and the Silenor give you next day drowsiness, but the bonine is safer, plus the Silenor made me tearful.
I wish that I had never step foot into a pain clinic. First they inject me with steroids that shut down my HPA axis and put me into adrenal crisis, then they got me addicted to Oxycodone (which thankfully I got myself off of through much trepedation), and along the way they kept increasing my Ativan to help with nausea and muscle pains which it turns out were caused by the Oxycodone.
Now I have to do a slow switch over from Ativan to Valium which will take 8 weeks, then once I am on Valium only I will wean down 1 mg every two weeks over a 60 week period. That is a total of 68 weeks.
I have tried to go faster but always end up vomiting, get muscle pain/twitching, and my anxiety goes through the roof.
It is going to be a long road, especially with the insomnia, but in the end I know it will be worth it.
If any of you are going through benzo withdrawal I encourage you to go to the following link. A guy named "John G" wrote a very inspiring story about his withdrawal from benzos. The web address is:
http://www.benzodetoxrecovery.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=829
I found out from John G and other posters that benzos can also cause urinary incontinence. I was wondering why I had this problem at such a young age.
I also have the common symptom of weak/heavy feeling legs John G describes, all these things that went away once he was off benzos.
So every time I get discouraged, I read his post and realize things will get better, I just have a tough battle to make it through.
Thanks to all!
Posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 19:04:36
In reply to Bonine works better than Silenor, posted by Zandy on September 18, 2010, at 15:15:23
I am really glad you found something that works for you! I have used Atarax (prescription) and it worked well for quite a while. I hope it solves your problems. Sleep well!
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2010, at 19:25:30
In reply to Bonine works better than Silenor, posted by Zandy on September 18, 2010, at 15:15:23
Zandy also so glad you found a med combo that works for you will check out the website also. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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