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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on December 21, 2009, at 22:42:44
I just procured a very small amount of powdered ketamine hcl. I would like to try it for my severe depression. Has anyone had any experiences with it?
How should i try it? Orally supposedly requires a much higher quantity than snorting it. HOwever, I am very averse to snorting just because of the negative connotations it has.
I can't get more ketamine so its very unlikely to turn into a dependance for me, i am just curious as to whether I may get a miracle response like some of the studies.
ANy guidance would be appreciated.
Posted by JayBTV2 on December 22, 2009, at 12:31:59
In reply to Ketamine experiences? I have some, posted by uncouth on December 21, 2009, at 22:42:44
I have no personal experience w/ Ketamine. However erowid has info on it. That site is really more about recreational use but you'll find some anecdotes there:
Posted by Brain Damage on December 22, 2009, at 14:20:11
In reply to Ketamine experiences? I have some, posted by uncouth on December 21, 2009, at 22:42:44
I snorted Ketamine, when I was very depressed
(Yes I know this was stupid)Completely psychotic for 3 weeks, on another planet (not a very pleasant one)
Did not help depression :(
Posted by linkadge on December 22, 2009, at 17:04:17
In reply to Slow Down!, posted by Brain Damage on December 22, 2009, at 14:20:11
There is probably a very fine line of dosage which aleviates depression but does not induce psychosis or other psychiatric side effects.
I would personlly advise the oral route as the dose is easier to control. Disolve a lowish dose in water then *slowly* consume it (over say a period of a few hours) - stopping when any negative side effects occur.
Linkadge
Posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 11:28:34
In reply to Re: Slow Down!, posted by linkadge on December 22, 2009, at 17:04:17
Swallowing ketamine is in my experience unpleasant and best avoided. If you need a mood stabilizer of some sort or suffer from psychosis you should avoid it. It can relieve the horror of depression very rapidly, but is a substance to treat with some respect. You don't need advice, just use your common sense.
robably a very fine line of dosage which aleviates depression but does not induce psychosis or other psychiatric side effects.
>
> I would personlly advise the oral route as the dose is easier to control. Disolve a lowish dose in water then *slowly* consume it (over say a period of a few hours) - stopping when any negative side effects occur.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 11:32:07
In reply to Re: Slow Down!, posted by linkadge on December 22, 2009, at 17:04:17
> There is probably a very fine line of dosage which aleviates depression but does not induce psychosis or other psychiatric side effects.
Is there anything on the web to say it causes psychosis? I think you're confusing this with the dissociative high.
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2009, at 18:25:37
In reply to Re: Slow Down!, posted by West on December 23, 2009, at 11:32:07
>Is there anything on the web to say it causes >psychosis? I think you're confusing this with >the dissociative high.
No, I don't think so. Google it yourself ketamine + psychosis. Ketamine (and other NMDA antagonists like PCP) have been known for a long time to produce psychotic reactions in certain individuals and animal models. In addition to being a NMDA antagonist (which enhances dopamine release), ketamine inhibits the reuptake of the three primary monoamines (with higher affinity for dopamine transport). In addition, ketamine displays intrinsic agonist affinity for the d2 and 5-ht2a receptors.
Because ketamine is known to produce psychosis, it is often used as a model for schizophrenia (the NMDA model). Amphetamines are also known to cause psychosis (when used recreationally), but the two types of psychosis differ in their clinical presentation. Amphetamine psychosis tends to be the more paranoid type, wherase NMDA PCP and ketamine psychosis tends to be the more disorganized type (ie loose associations, illogical/delusional thinking, nonsensicle speech, cognative disturbances).
The NMDA model of schizophrenia is the basis for testing agents like glycine which act as partial agonists at the NMDA receptor and appear to alleviate many of the symptoms of ketamine / PCP psychosis.
Linkadge
Posted by West on December 24, 2009, at 9:08:18
In reply to Re: Slow Down!, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2009, at 18:25:37
Thanks for this. I did know it was a DRI, the rest is news to me.
> Because ketamine is known to produce psychosis, it is often used as a model for schizophrenia (the NMDA model).
Scientists are continually trying to label drugs which simulate psychotic states and model psychiatric states, especially schizophrenia.
'Most of these models have been rejected since it was assumed that the model should be identical to the prototype, while it is impossible to get in animals a psychopathological picture similar to that of human.' *
> Amphetamines are also known to cause psychosis (when used recreationally), but the two types of psychosis differ in their clinical presentation.
Consistent with much of the anecdotal side effects of both drugs.> The NMDA model of schizophrenia is the basis for testing agents like glycine which act as partial agonists at the NMDA receptor and appear to alleviate many of the symptoms of ketamine / PCP psychosis.
Wow, that interesting, but it also seems very short-sighted, desperate even. I find it difficult to believe in any research hoping to accurately model diseases based on how animals behave when doses of these drugs are pushed to crazy levels.
Posted by West on December 24, 2009, at 9:09:06
In reply to Re: Slow Down!, posted by West on December 24, 2009, at 9:08:18
www.ist-world.org/ProjectDetails.aspx?ProjectId=a052d3bc5e654caea5856516fc9a9298&SourceDatabaseId=6aed06e82f8143fc9ece26e14cdeaf9d
Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2009, at 10:55:18
In reply to Re: Link, posted by West on December 24, 2009, at 9:09:06
OK, well:
Whether or not ketamine produces symptoms that are identical to schizophrenia is irrelevant. Psychosis is a more broadly used term that does not necessarily mean schizophrenia. So, that I said ketamine can produce psychosis, is entirely true.
Note: By saying the drug produces psychosis (or better yet "psychotic reactions") I do not mean the drug gives people schizophrenia - just as marijuanna can produce psychosis without making a person schizophrenic.
Nevertheless, if you go to a hospital from the behavioral manifestations (call them what you will) of ketamine toxicity (yes people do occasionally go to the hospital for it), the first thing they will generally give you is an antipsychotic - which are usually effective in reducing the distored thinking that can occur.
P.S. my friend said ketamine made him think that jackie chan was living inside his wall.
Linkadge
Posted by conundrum on December 24, 2009, at 15:19:36
In reply to Ketamine experiences? I have some, posted by uncouth on December 21, 2009, at 22:42:44
Don't get stuck in a K-hole man.
This is the end of the thread.
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