![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 21:03:12
I am on klonopin (was at .5mg X 2 daily but now can barely tolerate .25mg X 2 daily) and at first it worked for my anxiety and lifted my mood but now even though it still knocks my anxiety out I feel depressed and unmotivated. Has anyone else had this experience? It is so disappointing as taking it has cleared my anxiety but left me feeling blunt. Are there any other benzos that have more anti depressant properties? Many thanks, happy thanksgiving to everyone,
mogger
Posted by morganator on November 25, 2009, at 22:28:28
In reply to klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 21:03:12
There are no benzos that have antidepressant properties. Actually klonopin is the only one I believe that is thought to maybe have some antidepressant action. I may be wrong.
I experienced the emotional blunting as well. It sucks.
Can you tolerate antidepressants that have been successful in treating anxiety? What about St John's Wort? It's worth a try.
Posted by Maxime on November 25, 2009, at 22:34:12
In reply to klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 21:03:12
I was on a high dose of klonopin - 4mg When I finally came off it my depression lifted a fair bit. It was clearly causing some of my depression.
Posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 22:48:46
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by morganator on November 25, 2009, at 22:28:28
> There are no benzos that have antidepressant properties.
Actually, there are two: alprazolam and adinazolam.
It is quite common for people to feel depressed while taking clonazepam. Clonazepam is a weird drug for a benzodiazepine. It is the only one that has primary serotonergic effects. Although these effects are poorly studied, I am guessing that they are responsible for its mood-stabilizing properties.
- Scott
Posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 22:48:54
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way! » mogger, posted by Maxime on November 25, 2009, at 22:34:12
Thanks everyone, it is nice to know I am not the only one who has had this reaction. A doctor recommended this to me which I thought looked quite interesting. Has anyone heard of it or does the description make sense? I am going to plow down a bunch of turkey tomorrow to get a good dose of tryptophan. :)
mogger
Posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 22:52:48
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 22:48:46
Very interesting scott, I will speak with my doctor about this. Thanks very much
Posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 22:55:02
In reply to Re: perhaps try kavinace for gaba?!, posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 22:48:54
> http://www.thewayup.com/products/0003.cfm
Looks interesting.
L-theanine is worth a look at to treat anxiety. I can't attest to it myself, but I do have a friend who benefited quite a bit from it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2009, at 23:07:15
In reply to Re: perhaps try kavinace for gaba?! » mogger, posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 22:55:02
Yes xanax has mild antidepressant propertie. Klonopin actually made me feel suicidal and stopping it and taking one .5 xanax felt fine. Good Luck Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 23:10:24
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 22:52:48
> Very interesting scott, I will speak with my doctor about this. Thanks very much
Here's one to show your doctor if he is interested:
- Scott
-------------------------------------------------
Clonazepam-induced up-regulation of serotonin1 binding sites in frontal cortex of ratH. R. Wagner2, 1, A. Reches2 and S. Fahn2
1 Departments of Pharmacology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
2 Departments of Neurology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
Accepted 18 February 1985.
Available online 6 November 2002.Abstract
Chronic administration of the benzodiazepine, clonazepam, increased the number of [3H]-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT1) binding sites in the frontal cortex of the rat. The increase reflected a change in the maximum density of binding sites (Bmax) with no change in ligand affinity (Kd). Increased binding occurred after continued exposure (10 days) to large (5.0 mg/kg) doses of clonazepam. The changes in [3H]5-HT binding were regional in that they occurred in membranes from the frontal cortex but not the brainstem. The effects were also at least partially selective for 5-HT receptors since the binding of the β-adrenergic radioligand, [3H]dihydroalprenolol, was not affected by clonazepam. A second benzodiazepine, diazepam, did not affect the binding of [3H]5-HT at doses of 30 mg/kg per day. The latter data suggest that the effects of benzodiazepines on serotonin 5-HT1 receptors are unique to clonazepam.
-------------------------------------------------
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2009, at 6:42:42
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way! » mogger, posted by SLS on November 25, 2009, at 23:10:24
Now that I think about it, I recall one study of clonazepam that reported a reduced turnnover of serotonin due to a reduction in its release from nerve terminals. This might explain the 5-HT1 receptor upregulation. It might also explain why some people get depressed while taking clonazepam.
- Scott-------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Clonazepam-induced up-regulation of serotonin1 binding sites in frontal cortex of rat
>
> H. R. Wagner2, 1, A. Reches2 and S. Fahn2
>
> 1 Departments of Pharmacology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
>
> 2 Departments of Neurology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
>
> Accepted 18 February 1985.
> Available online 6 November 2002.
>
> Abstract
>
> Chronic administration of the benzodiazepine, clonazepam, increased the number of [3H]-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT1) binding sites in the frontal cortex of the rat. The increase reflected a change in the maximum density of binding sites (Bmax) with no change in ligand affinity (Kd). Increased binding occurred after continued exposure (10 days) to large (5.0 mg/kg) doses of clonazepam. The changes in [3H]5-HT binding were regional in that they occurred in membranes from the frontal cortex but not the brainstem. The effects were also at least partially selective for 5-HT receptors since the binding of the β-adrenergic radioligand, [3H]dihydroalprenolol, was not affected by clonazepam. A second benzodiazepine, diazepam, did not affect the binding of [3H]5-HT at doses of 30 mg/kg per day. The latter data suggest that the effects of benzodiazepines on serotonin 5-HT1 receptors are unique to clonazepam.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Posted by tensor on November 26, 2009, at 7:26:47
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by SLS on November 26, 2009, at 6:42:42
> Now that I think about it, I recall one study of clonazepam that reported a reduced turnnover of serotonin due to a reduction in its release from nerve terminals. This might explain the 5-HT1 receptor upregulation. It might also explain why some people get depressed while taking clonazepam.
>
>
> - Scott
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Clonazepam-induced up-regulation of serotonin1 binding sites in frontal cortex of rat
> >
> > H. R. Wagner2, 1, A. Reches2 and S. Fahn2
> >
> > 1 Departments of Pharmacology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
> >
> > 2 Departments of Neurology, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, U.S.A
> >
> > Accepted 18 February 1985.
> > Available online 6 November 2002.
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> > Chronic administration of the benzodiazepine, clonazepam, increased the number of [3H]-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT1) binding sites in the frontal cortex of the rat. The increase reflected a change in the maximum density of binding sites (Bmax) with no change in ligand affinity (Kd). Increased binding occurred after continued exposure (10 days) to large (5.0 mg/kg) doses of clonazepam. The changes in [3H]5-HT binding were regional in that they occurred in membranes from the frontal cortex but not the brainstem. The effects were also at least partially selective for 5-HT receptors since the binding of the β-adrenergic radioligand, [3H]dihydroalprenolol, was not affected by clonazepam. A second benzodiazepine, diazepam, did not affect the binding of [3H]5-HT at doses of 30 mg/kg per day. The latter data suggest that the effects of benzodiazepines on serotonin 5-HT1 receptors are unique to clonazepam.This is interesting to me. I'm a long-term user of clonazepam and I have become more and more treatment-resistant for depression.
/tensor
Posted by Mogger on November 26, 2009, at 18:43:57
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way! » SLS, posted by tensor on November 26, 2009, at 7:26:47
Scott are all benzos the same in regards to tolerance and habit forming or perhaps the reason my pdoc prescribed me klonopin first is because it is the least habit forming/safest?
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2009, at 19:56:05
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by Mogger on November 26, 2009, at 18:43:57
> Scott are all benzos the same in regards to tolerance and habit forming or perhaps the reason my pdoc prescribed me klonopin first is because it is the least habit forming/safest?
That's a great question. I truly don't know. Maybe someone more familiar with BZDs can comment. Klonopin has a long half-life, so maybe your doctor feels that it would produce the most consistent effect throughout the day. Klonopin had been used quite often in the past as an adjunct mood stabilizer before Depakote came along.
Sorry I couldn't answer your question. If you do have a conversation with your doctor as to what his reasons are for choosing Klonopin, it would be great if you could post them. No pressure, though.
- Scott
Posted by Mogger on November 26, 2009, at 20:39:22
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way! » Mogger, posted by SLS on November 26, 2009, at 19:56:05
I will definitely get back to you on that when I speak to him. He also mentioned possibly adding tegretol if the benzos don't work out. Thanks
Posted by Phillipa on November 26, 2009, at 21:54:10
In reply to Re: klonopin success and then the other way! » Mogger, posted by SLS on November 26, 2009, at 19:56:05
Seems the docs I worked with back went felt klonopin since no supposedly high was not addictive. Now that was quite a number of years ago. It was the benzo of the month so to speak. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on November 27, 2009, at 0:23:32
In reply to klonopin success and then the other way!, posted by mogger on November 25, 2009, at 21:03:12
Hi Mogger,
switching from clonopin to xanax xr helped me. The around the clock anxiety control doesn't feel as 'deep', yet the depressive effects of klonopin became apparent to me after about a year or less of use. I did not notice 'blunting' myself. I was using .5 mg two to three times per day.
BTW, I found no difference between generic xanax xr or brand.
fb
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.