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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
Just wanted to let you know the improvement I've had so far with Parnate.
This is just my 1st month on Parnate, and last week was my first week on 60mgs, in addition to 10mgs of Adderall--which were added just a week earlier.
My depression began to improve gradually within the first two weeks. All the ruminations, gut wrenching guilt, chronic emotional distress, etc, began to slowly become less and less intense to the point I was able to feel some peace again.
This past week I was finally allowed to raise my dose to 60mgs, and by the 2nd day on it I finally began to feel comfortable socially.
I don't feel anxious or awkward anymore. I can chat with people, I can laugh and joke. I'm not a social animal by any means; I'm not there yet, but I did get a comment from a friend, who said: "You definitely seem more chatty and engaged than 3 weeks ago." This week I was able to smoothly and easily handle certain people I was incredibly uncomfortable with just 2 weeks earlier.
I'm also able to smile without forcing it and communicate difficult feelings without terrible emotional distress, guilt, or visible internal struggle.I also had a phone conversation with one of my siblings, one who usually dominates the conversation. I dominated this time, and surprisingly, my vocabulary is returning to my memory. It's been gone for a long time, more than 2 years probably, ever since my dreadful encounter with Nardil. Seems to be back now, I feel so more fluent.
So I'm feeling good, feeling good. Parnate is doing a great job. I feel more confident, more social and more assertive.
The only strange side effect I began to experience upon raising the dose to 60mgs is that about 1-2 hours after each dose, especially the 2nd dose (each dose is 30mgs Parnate+ 5mgs Adderall) my head begins to feel very hot, my face begins to blush, I begin to feel very sleepy and my eyes start to close and I feel very tired and heavy. Not a bad or painful feeling at all, just a bit strange. Something I can live with, but I was just curious if anyone knows what that might be.
Thanks
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 8:11:58
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
That's great news! I am glad you are beginning to respond more robustly to your treatment.
> The only strange side effect I began to experience upon raising the dose to 60mgs is that about 1-2 hours after each dose, especially the 2nd dose (each dose is 30mgs Parnate+ 5mgs Adderall) my head begins to feel very hot, my face begins to blush, I begin to feel very sleepy and my eyes start to close and I feel very tired and heavy. Not a bad or painful feeling at all, just a bit strange. Something I can live with, but I was just curious if anyone knows what that might be.
It might be a temporary imbalance in your autonomic nervous system. I doubt it is anything that will persist over time.
You are very observant.
Does the tip of your nose get cold?
Are you or anyone in your family bipolar?
- Scott
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 8:35:00
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 8:11:58
Hi Scott,
Thanks for the info. I haven't noticed really if he tip of my nose is cold, but I will check next time it happens. Would that mean anything in particular? I do remember feeling slightly cold myself, though.
I'm not sure if anyone in my family is bipolar, actually. Nobody is on my father's side, and I lost touch with my mother's side since she passed away (I was a young kid) but I "heard" one of my uncles was either depressive or bipolar. But then again, I don't have any certainty and I don't think he was getting treatment, so he might not have even been diagnosed by a real doctor. His brother (my other, younger uncle) might have been very depressive as well because he committed suicide at age 24. But I have no idea about their diagnosis.
May I ask why do you ask regarding the bipolar? Just curious.
Thanks again.
> It might be a temporary imbalance in your autonomic nervous system. I doubt it is anything that will persist over time.
>
> You are very observant.
>
> Does the tip of your nose get cold?
>
> Are you or anyone in your family bipolar?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Maxime on September 14, 2009, at 9:01:23
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
I'm so happy to hear about the improvement!
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 9:08:40
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » SLS, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 8:35:00
> May I ask why do you ask regarding the bipolar? Just curious.
I have noticed in myself and others that the appearance of a red, hot flush in the face and ears occurs with mania. I wouldn't worry about it, though. I'm sure it happens with quite a few unipolar people, too.
- Scott
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 9:59:37
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 9:08:40
Oh I see. But did it disappear with time, or does that still happen to you? What dose do you need for that to happen, and does it cause you to feel sleepy and heavy/lethargic as well? For me I think it started at 60mgs.
> I have noticed in myself and others that the appearance of a red, hot flush in the face and ears occurs with mania. I wouldn't worry about it, though. I'm sure it happens with quite a few unipolar people, too.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Jimmyboy on September 14, 2009, at 10:15:02
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » SLS, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 9:59:37
has the parnate helped for overall anxiety as well? Also have you ever been prone to panic attacks in the past? If so has parnate helped?
Congrats on your success, that is great!
PS- SLS - does parnate carry a higher liklihood of pushing a BP individual into mania as opposed to SSRI's or TCA's Thanks
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 10:22:41
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Jimmyboy on September 14, 2009, at 10:15:02
Well, I really don't have a lot of generalized anxiety. My anxiety is mostly social and sometimes just anticipatory (of events, going to work, meeting certain people, etc) but having the social part taken care of helps a lot with that.
I still take Ativan for anticipatory anxiety, so I guess it's not really as calming as you might think, but rather stimulating, although not in a bad way. I like the feeling of it.
Thanks for the congrats. I hope this is the one that will save me.
> has the parnate helped for overall anxiety as well? Also have you ever been prone to panic attacks in the past? If so has parnate helped?
>
> Congrats on your success, that is great!
>
> PS- SLS - does parnate carry a higher liklihood of pushing a BP individual into mania as opposed to SSRI's or TCA's Thanks
>
>
Posted by Sunbath on September 14, 2009, at 10:23:30
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
This is wonderful news!
I wish you all the best! Might your success continue and improve even further!Good luck
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2009, at 11:01:56
In reply to Big congrats!! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by Sunbath on September 14, 2009, at 10:23:30
Yes good news but curious how did you manage work with severe depression? I have a hard time figuring how people do it? Phillipa
Posted by willyeee on September 14, 2009, at 11:33:10
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
Great news see we told you !!!! Best wishes
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on September 14, 2009, at 12:36:10
In reply to Big congrats!! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by Sunbath on September 14, 2009, at 10:23:30
Wonderful news!!!Seems like the Adderall was a really good call also!!
That's great!!
Gayle
Posted by bulldog2 on September 14, 2009, at 14:33:42
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
> Just wanted to let you know the improvement I've had so far with Parnate.
>
> This is just my 1st month on Parnate, and last week was my first week on 60mgs, in addition to 10mgs of Adderall--which were added just a week earlier.
>
> My depression began to improve gradually within the first two weeks. All the ruminations, gut wrenching guilt, chronic emotional distress, etc, began to slowly become less and less intense to the point I was able to feel some peace again.
>
> This past week I was finally allowed to raise my dose to 60mgs, and by the 2nd day on it I finally began to feel comfortable socially.
>
> I don't feel anxious or awkward anymore. I can chat with people, I can laugh and joke. I'm not a social animal by any means; I'm not there yet, but I did get a comment from a friend, who said: "You definitely seem more chatty and engaged than 3 weeks ago." This week I was able to smoothly and easily handle certain people I was incredibly uncomfortable with just 2 weeks earlier.
> I'm also able to smile without forcing it and communicate difficult feelings without terrible emotional distress, guilt, or visible internal struggle.
>
> I also had a phone conversation with one of my siblings, one who usually dominates the conversation. I dominated this time, and surprisingly, my vocabulary is returning to my memory. It's been gone for a long time, more than 2 years probably, ever since my dreadful encounter with Nardil. Seems to be back now, I feel so more fluent.
>
> So I'm feeling good, feeling good. Parnate is doing a great job. I feel more confident, more social and more assertive.
>
> The only strange side effect I began to experience upon raising the dose to 60mgs is that about 1-2 hours after each dose, especially the 2nd dose (each dose is 30mgs Parnate+ 5mgs Adderall) my head begins to feel very hot, my face begins to blush, I begin to feel very sleepy and my eyes start to close and I feel very tired and heavy. Not a bad or painful feeling at all, just a bit strange. Something I can live with, but I was just curious if anyone knows what that might be.
>
> ThanksThat is great news congraulations! I also suffer from atypical depression. During my college and working years speaking in front of people (more than 1) would often ignite a panic attack with intense blushing, sweating, and heart pounding. This social anxiety put a large disability on my social and work life. Had to avoid any situation that involved public speaking so i became a recluse.
Congratulations again on your success.It seems with parnate that it often requires a drug to augment it. Parnate is the wood and adderall is the match to set the fire.
Posted by willyeee on September 14, 2009, at 14:38:42
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
Just keep an eye on the combination be careful
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 15:59:18
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » SLS, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 9:59:37
> Oh I see. But did it disappear with time, or does that still happen to you?
It happened only during the time that I was manic. My manic state lasted for a few months before it was recognized by my doctor. I don't recall getting sleepy during these times. In fact, the flushing was associated with activation rather than quiescence. That leads me to believe that your experience is NOT a symptom of mania. I am still guessing that it is an autonomic imbalance that will resolve with time. One might expect this to happen with an increase in sympathetic activation resulting from taking Parnate and amphetamine. There is no reason for concern.
Out of curiosity, how do you feel after eating?
- Scott
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 14, 2009, at 19:52:24
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 15:59:18
hey that's awesome girlinterrupted! my trial's a little tough going but im hanging in there due to all these great reports.
you sleeping okay? i too am curious about its effect on anxiety/ruminations 'cos so far my anxiety feels a bit worse
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:24:31
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 15:59:18
> Out of curiosity, how do you feel after eating?
>
> - ScottI haven't noticed anything strange. But now that you mention it, I finished eating just a few minutes ago and my face is real hot now, even though I took my last dose 4 hours ago. I'm also having a hot tea. I don't know if it's the food, the tea, or what, but that's the only thing I can think of right now that's making my face hot again.
Is anything weird supposed to happen on Parnate after eating that I should be aware of?
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:25:16
In reply to Big congrats!! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by Sunbath on September 14, 2009, at 10:23:30
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:26:40
In reply to Big congrats!! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by Sunbath on September 14, 2009, at 10:23:30
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:34:49
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 14, 2009, at 19:52:24
> hey that's awesome girlinterrupted! my trial's a little tough going but im hanging in there due to all these great reports.
How are you doing so far? I read your last posts and I think you said you were starting to feel better, are you?
> you sleeping okay? i too am curious about its effect on anxiety/ruminations 'cos so far my anxiety feels a bit worse.
The sleeping is a hard question for me to answer because I've had severe insomnia and disordered sleeping for the last 10 years and it hasn't changed, so I can't blame Parnate for anything or know whether it's making it worse. The only thing I noticed is that on Parnate I feel less tired during the day after a sleepless night, whereas normally I'd be up all night and feel like crap the next whole day. So I guess that's a benefit, but only in my situation of severe long-term insomnia and chronic daytime exhaustion.
My anxiety is situational and I haven't had many reasons to be anxious lately, so it's hard to tell if Parnate is helping or making things worse. I don't feel all that anxious really, but then again, I'd have to get into a very anxiety-provoking situation to be able to answer your question. So far, I feel ok and I have Ativan for emergencies.
I hope you continue to make progress and start to feel much better.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 15, 2009, at 3:03:55
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » g_g_g_unit, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:34:49
> How are you doing so far? I read your last posts and I think you said you were starting to feel better, are you?in some respects, definitely. i think that has partly arisen from my realisation that meds alone will not save my life, so i am forcing myself to do solitary stuff (exercise, read) that i normally put off. i don't feel a lot more motivated on parnate but it seems like once i force myself into an activity, it's easier to persist with it. my dose is still quite low (20mg) and i'm not quite ready to return to socializing. it also seems to leave me a little fuzzy at the moment, but i blame the sleep deprivation. i'm using seroquel to sleep, but i hope i won't need it once i reach a higher dose, since it definitely leaves me a bit more flat
>
> > you sleeping okay? i too am curious about its effect on anxiety/ruminations 'cos so far my anxiety feels a bit worse.
>
> The sleeping is a hard question for me to answer because I've had severe insomnia and disordered sleeping for the last 10 years and it hasn't changed, so I can't blame Parnate for anything or know whether it's making it worse. The only thing I noticed is that on Parnate I feel less tired during the day after a sleepless night, whereas normally I'd be up all night and feel like crap the next whole day. So I guess that's a benefit, but only in my situation of severe long-term insomnia and chronic daytime exhaustion.
>
> My anxiety is situational and I haven't had many reasons to be anxious lately, so it's hard to tell if Parnate is helping or making things worse. I don't feel all that anxious really, but then again, I'd have to get into a very anxiety-provoking situation to be able to answer your question. So far, I feel ok and I have Ativan for emergencies.
>
> I hope you continue to make progress and start to feel much better.
>
>thanks for your good wishes; i hope you continue to do well on the med. have you ever had a sleep study done? i don't have a tonne more general anxiety, but i find myself ruminating more, and wrestling with feelings of guilt which i'd begun to suppress. i imagine it's just a transitory effect from the activation i feel on the drug.
Posted by SLS on September 15, 2009, at 5:20:40
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » SLS, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 0:24:31
> Is anything weird supposed to happen on Parnate after eating that I should be aware of?
I have to apologize. I am probably giving you unnecessary cause for concern when there are none. I am just curious to compare my experiences with yours. Dysautonomia is one of the features of my depression (increased sympathetic and/or decreased parasympathetic tone). It usually gets worse before it gets better as I begin to respond to treatment.
Some people will sometimes react to eating with feelings of what seems like (but is not) a fleeting worsening of depression. In your case, if you find that you have the reaction that you describe, I would again attribute it to a mild temporary dysautonomia - especially if you get heart palpitations along with the flushing. There might also be dizziness, dry mouth, blurred vision, and muscle weakness. An increase in heart rate is normal after eating.
Again, I do apologize if my curiosity has caused you concern.
- Scott
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 15, 2009, at 17:53:05
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 15, 2009, at 5:20:40
> I have to apologize. I am probably giving you unnecessary cause for concern when there are none. I am just curious to compare my experiences with yours.
Oh no, please, you really don't need to apologize. I was asking out of curiosity more than concern. But now I'm glad you brought this up, because otherwise I would not have realized so soon that I do in fact have a reaction after eating.
Just now I finished having my meal and I can feel my heart beating faster & harder, my face is very hot and blushing, and I even have these red stains in my chest.
I recall having this same reaction on Nardil when I went up to 75mgs.
So yes, I have the same reaction you describe. The only difference is that I feel awfully sleepy and tired. I feel very sleepy and exhausted throughout the day.
Now you can tell me just about any reaction you have because most likely I will end up having it. And don't worry, there's no problem with asking about these reactions. It's actually a good thing for me to learn what else I can expect to have on Parnate.
Thanks
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 16, 2009, at 13:27:46
In reply to Re: Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally » Girlnterrupted78, posted by SLS on September 15, 2009, at 5:20:40
By the way, Scott, talking about reactions, I wanted to ask you if you ever felt extreme exhaustion as a side effect of Parnate?
This week I had to cancel 2 or 3 activities I had planned to do as part of my normal routine due to exhaustion so severe that I felt close to sick.
I happened to exercise one of those days. I ran 3.5 miles, which were pretty hard to run with my hypotension, because it makes my limbs heavy and easily exhausted, probably because they're not being properly oxygenated with the low bp, but I kept stopping to walk. After that, which is my usual run, and which I normally complete in half the time than I did this time, I could simply not move anymore and I had to cancel a shift I had to work 3 hours later. It was exhausted to the point of feeling ill. And I've been going to bed so early now as a result of the exhaustion.. I usually go to bed at 2am or so, but last night I couldn't keep my eyes from closing on me at 9:30pm.
I also realized the flushing doesn't only happen after eating. Today I had a doctor's appointment and I was telling him about it. At that point my chest was alright. 5 minutes later, he was like.. "I can see a bunch of blotches in your chest now!" and I looked down and was shocked that my chest was suddenly all red and full of blotches. They weren't bumps, just big red stains. He had just taken my blood pressure, so I asked him if maybe he could take it again to see if the blotches meant something, and yes, I had just had a drop in bp. He then inferred that all those flushings were blood pressure related. I had taken my daily dose 1.5 hours before my appointment and he said the bp would peak 1 hour after taking it.
When he took my blood pressure for the first time, it was actually 'high' (while sitting), probably because I'm taking 30g of Parnate all at once. He also took it while standing, and then it had a significant drop, to the point of being 'low' blood pressure. So he said my body was trying to figure out how to deal with all the changes.
So anyway.. the exhaustion is really killing me, but if I had to trade between being tired and being depressed, I'd take tired without thinking.
I still have very light ruminations, but nothing nearly what they used to be. I'm just sort of expecting everything to be "perfect" now that I'm on Parnate and it's supposedly working, so when things aren't so perfect, I do get a sense of anxiety, but again, it's also very light, sort of latent inside of me. Not full blown and paralyzing the way it used to be. Just like a small shadow of what that emotional pain used to be. But it makes me anxious to have such high expectations and not meet them immediately.
Please tell me more about any reactions you're aware of. I want to be prepared and more observant to see what's going on now that my doses are getting bigger.
Thanks a lot.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 20, 2009, at 13:26:34
In reply to Parnate 60mgs helping with social anxiety, finally, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 14, 2009, at 7:54:19
GI,
Your good news is so pleasing to hear! May your successful treatment and remission continue!
yay!
fb
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