![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Hi Babblers,
I have suffered from anxiety for the last 3 years. I want to know if I've tried everything. Here are the drugs I've tried and my reaction
* Klonopin, Atavin, Valium and Xanax don't do anything for me
* SSRI's (Lexapro, Zoloft, Effexor, Paxil, Cymbalta) feel good for a few days and then poop out. Then they cause intense anxiety, fear and paranoia. I don't respond well to Serotonin
* Buspar - worked for a few days and then pooped out.
* Remeron - horrific anxiety inducing nightmares
* Serzone - cause paranoia
* Lamictal - I'm on this currently and seems to help a little bit
* Neurontin - worked for a few days and then poop out. Each new dose would follow the same pattern
* Lyrica - felt 100% on this for 10 days and then it pooped out.
* Depakote - on this currently. Never has really done anything for me.
* Seroquel - akathisia
* Risperdal - didn't do anything
* Abilify - turned me into a zombie and didn't do anything for me
* Zyprexa - worked for 3 weeks and then pooped out. Made me fat and tired
* Geodon - worked for 3 weeks very well and then pooped out. I'm on this currently but don't know if this is doing anything.
The MAOI's affect serotonin so I think I would respond as poorly as I do with the SSRI's
Are there any other options to try for my anxiety? I specifically live with generalized anxiety, fear, apprehension and phobias.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Spencer
Posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 10:58:14
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Well, in situations like this I think it helps to look at the whole psychiatric game-plan. That is, try the things that make sense. Every one of them is a pure guess. Certain symptoms respond best to certain meds or certain mechanisms. Most of the time. Key...not all the time. I think your case that is important. You are one of the ones in the other category.
While anxiety and its cousins you described usually respond to the meds you mentioned, I think at this point it is pure logical deduction to pose the hypothesis..."ok, my anxiety is not serotonin or gaba or dopamine antagonism or calcium channels." Therefore, what else is there?
Just as certain meds generally work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true. That is, certain meds which would normally not work on certain symptoms will work on a minority of different people, which is you.
Case in point. My anxiety was not helped by any of the meds you mentioned. Actually it was made worse by them. I intuitively felt my anxiety was noradrenergically based. Just too much adrenaline going on! Antipsychotics only increase that. SSRIs and benzos increase it also, because as they dampen the anxiety at first, the out-of-control NE system further ramps itself up to compensate. And that's when the early poopout happens.
In my case the answer was just the opposite of logic. It was more along the lines of how homeopathic medicine works. That is, treat like with like. Too much adrenaline? Give it more adrenaline. For me, that meant that something like Milnacipran, heavy on NE, might work. First few days, much worse anxiety and phobias. Expected. Too much NE to begin with, and now even more. From day 4 on, anxiety melting away. Feedback loops and genes and such all kicked in. The NE system now finally realized it did not have to overcompensate or race to keep up, but instead was telling itself to slow down. And the anxiety went away over a couple weeks.
My doses were very low. I think prescribed doses are much too high. I prefer custom made tiny ones. Kind of like the whole science of homeopathy...like treats like, and it only takes a little bit.
What happens when a healthy child is given an amphetamine? Hyperactive, bonkers, superman energy, right? OK. Now what happens when a hyperactive child is given amphetamine? The calm down! Heck, people here have even reported how stimulants made them tired and sleepy.
So my point is...when the obvious stuff doesn't work, we have to turn the book around and realize we are dealing with an opposite situation of what it appears to be. What would obviously not work, or what has never been considered, needs to be seriously considered and tried. Pure logic points in that direction. Pure logic points away from conventional bread-n-butter thinking.
I do believe you would find it very helpful to recruit an Integrative MD into your team. They have the knowledge and tests to look at your whole body and all kinds of things your routine MD and psychiatrist and Endos don't much about. Stubborn anxiety is so very common in things like mercury or lead accumulation, various infectious diseases, adrenal insufficiency, food intolerances, just to name a few.
Posted by tiopenster on September 9, 2009, at 15:09:42
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 10:58:14
I really appreciate your response. Going along with your reasoing, do you thing I need a decrease in Serotonin instead of an increase, which happens with SSRI's? From what I've read, Stablon is the only thing that does that. I can get this through an online pharmacy. I was also considering Stelazine or Solian (Amisulpride). Do you think any of these 3 would be useful?
Posted by morganator on September 9, 2009, at 17:56:56
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 10:58:14
Stubborn anxiety is also often the result of emotional factors. What about something like EMDR or CBT?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2009, at 19:50:01
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 10:58:14
> Well, in situations like this I think it helps to look at the whole psychiatric game-plan. That is, try the things that make sense. Every one of them is a pure guess. Certain symptoms respond best to certain meds or certain mechanisms. Most of the time. Key...not all the time. I think your case that is important. You are one of the ones in the other category.
>
> While anxiety and its cousins you described usually respond to the meds you mentioned, I think at this point it is pure logical deduction to pose the hypothesis..."ok, my anxiety is not serotonin or gaba or dopamine antagonism or calcium channels." Therefore, what else is there?
>
> Just as certain meds generally work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true. That is, certain meds which would normally not work on certain symptoms will work on a minority of different people, which is you.
>
> Case in point. My anxiety was not helped by any of the meds you mentioned. Actually it was made worse by them. I intuitively felt my anxiety was noradrenergically based. Just too much adrenaline going on! Antipsychotics only increase that. SSRIs and benzos increase it also, because as they dampen the anxiety at first, the out-of-control NE system further ramps itself up to compensate. And that's when the early poopout happens.
>
> In my case the answer was just the opposite of logic. It was more along the lines of how homeopathic medicine works. That is, treat like with like. Too much adrenaline? Give it more adrenaline. For me, that meant that something like Milnacipran, heavy on NE, might work. First few days, much worse anxiety and phobias. Expected. Too much NE to begin with, and now even more. From day 4 on, anxiety melting away. Feedback loops and genes and such all kicked in. The NE system now finally realized it did not have to overcompensate or race to keep up, but instead was telling itself to slow down. And the anxiety went away over a couple weeks.
>
> My doses were very low. I think prescribed doses are much too high. I prefer custom made tiny ones. Kind of like the whole science of homeopathy...like treats like, and it only takes a little bit.
>
> What happens when a healthy child is given an amphetamine? Hyperactive, bonkers, superman energy, right? OK. Now what happens when a hyperactive child is given amphetamine? The calm down! Heck, people here have even reported how stimulants made them tired and sleepy.
>
> So my point is...when the obvious stuff doesn't work, we have to turn the book around and realize we are dealing with an opposite situation of what it appears to be. What would obviously not work, or what has never been considered, needs to be seriously considered and tried. Pure logic points in that direction. Pure logic points away from conventional bread-n-butter thinking.
>
> I do believe you would find it very helpful to recruit an Integrative MD into your team. They have the knowledge and tests to look at your whole body and all kinds of things your routine MD and psychiatrist and Endos don't much about. Stubborn anxiety is so very common in things like mercury or lead accumulation, various infectious diseases, adrenal insufficiency, food intolerances, just to name a few.bb,
You wrote,[...certain meds..work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true...certain meds which.. will not work...>will< work on you..].
I am interested in any authority that you may have to substantiate such. (A), If you could post here a link to an article that shows such, then I could have a better understanding of this and respond accordingly. (B), In,[...will work on... you...], (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2009, at 20:30:27
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 10:58:14
> Well, in situations like this I think it helps to look at the whole psychiatric game-plan. That is, try the things that make sense. Every one of them is a pure guess. Certain symptoms respond best to certain meds or certain mechanisms. Most of the time. Key...not all the time. I think your case that is important. You are one of the ones in the other category.
>
> While anxiety and its cousins you described usually respond to the meds you mentioned, I think at this point it is pure logical deduction to pose the hypothesis..."ok, my anxiety is not serotonin or gaba or dopamine antagonism or calcium channels." Therefore, what else is there?
>
> Just as certain meds generally work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true. That is, certain meds which would normally not work on certain symptoms will work on a minority of different people, which is you.
>
> Case in point. My anxiety was not helped by any of the meds you mentioned. Actually it was made worse by them. I intuitively felt my anxiety was noradrenergically based. Just too much adrenaline going on! Antipsychotics only increase that. SSRIs and benzos increase it also, because as they dampen the anxiety at first, the out-of-control NE system further ramps itself up to compensate. And that's when the early poopout happens.
>
> In my case the answer was just the opposite of logic. It was more along the lines of how homeopathic medicine works. That is, treat like with like. Too much adrenaline? Give it more adrenaline. For me, that meant that something like Milnacipran, heavy on NE, might work. First few days, much worse anxiety and phobias. Expected. Too much NE to begin with, and now even more. From day 4 on, anxiety melting away. Feedback loops and genes and such all kicked in. The NE system now finally realized it did not have to overcompensate or race to keep up, but instead was telling itself to slow down. And the anxiety went away over a couple weeks.
>
> My doses were very low. I think prescribed doses are much too high. I prefer custom made tiny ones. Kind of like the whole science of homeopathy...like treats like, and it only takes a little bit.
>
> What happens when a healthy child is given an amphetamine? Hyperactive, bonkers, superman energy, right? OK. Now what happens when a hyperactive child is given amphetamine? The calm down! Heck, people here have even reported how stimulants made them tired and sleepy.
>
> So my point is...when the obvious stuff doesn't work, we have to turn the book around and realize we are dealing with an opposite situation of what it appears to be. What would obviously not work, or what has never been considered, needs to be seriously considered and tried. Pure logic points in that direction. Pure logic points away from conventional bread-n-butter thinking.
>
> I do believe you would find it very helpful to recruit an Integrative MD into your team. They have the knowledge and tests to look at your whole body and all kinds of things your routine MD and psychiatrist and Endos don't much about. Stubborn anxiety is so very common in things like mercury or lead accumulation, various infectious diseases, adrenal insufficiency, food intolerances, just to name a few.bb,
You wrote,[...when...doesn't work, we have to turn the book around...pure logic points away from.. bread- and- butter thinking...].
I am unsure as to what you are proposing here to the member that you are responding to. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oppportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What criteria do you use to determine that the book has to be turned around if you are wanting to mean here a chemical that one has taken into their system fails to do what is expected by the one that took it into their system?
B. Could there be another approach other than what you describe here?
C. What, in your thinking, constitutes pure logic?
D. Are you a certificated mental health professional?
E. other requests not stated
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2009, at 20:42:21
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
> Hi Babblers,
>
> I have suffered from anxiety for the last 3 years. I want to know if I've tried everything. Here are the drugs I've tried and my reaction
>
> * Klonopin, Atavin, Valium and Xanax don't do anything for me
>
> * SSRI's (Lexapro, Zoloft, Effexor, Paxil, Cymbalta) feel good for a few days and then poop out. Then they cause intense anxiety, fear and paranoia. I don't respond well to Serotonin
>
> * Buspar - worked for a few days and then pooped out.
>
> * Remeron - horrific anxiety inducing nightmares
>
> * Serzone - cause paranoia
>
> * Lamictal - I'm on this currently and seems to help a little bit
>
> * Neurontin - worked for a few days and then poop out. Each new dose would follow the same pattern
>
> * Lyrica - felt 100% on this for 10 days and then it pooped out.
>
> * Depakote - on this currently. Never has really done anything for me.
>
> * Seroquel - akathisia
>
> * Risperdal - didn't do anything
>
> * Abilify - turned me into a zombie and didn't do anything for me
>
> * Zyprexa - worked for 3 weeks and then pooped out. Made me fat and tired
>
> * Geodon - worked for 3 weeks very well and then pooped out. I'm on this currently but don't know if this is doing anything.
>
> The MAOI's affect serotonin so I think I would respond as poorly as I do with the SSRI's
>
> Are there any other options to try for my anxiety? I specifically live with generalized anxiety, fear, apprehension and phobias.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> SpencerSpencer,
You wrote,[...Are there any other options to try...?...fear...].
Yes.
Lou
Posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:15:01
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 9, 2009, at 15:09:42
> I really appreciate your response. Going along with your reasoing, do you thing I need a decrease in Serotonin instead of an increase, which happens with SSRI's? From what I've read, Stablon is the only thing that does that. I can get this through an online pharmacy. I was also considering Stelazine or Solian (Amisulpride). Do you think any of these 3 would be useful?
Awesome questions!
Well, less serotonin, I don't know about that. Things just aren't that simple. Obviously more doesn't help, but I don't think less would either. I mean, there really is no way to make less except with a very targeted diet to reduce tryptophan.
Though Stablon is called a serotonin reuptake enhancer, I think that can be misleading. The serotonin is still there, just in a different place. It doesn't reduce serotonin per se. Stablon has a multitude of functions apart from anything it does on serotonin. Viewing clinical studies and anecdotal reports here over the years yields two general conclusions: 1)It is generally good for treating anxiety, especially in the clinical trials; 2)A minority of people have reported it made them too hyper. But the overall view is that it is known for anti-anxiety.
Amisulpride I found to be excellent anti-anxiety. The first couple days I think it made me feel more hyper. After that, excellent peace, good social comfort. I tried various doses between 25mg and 50mg. Weird, but I also found it diminished aches and pains like magic. That was an unexpected surprise I had never heard about. Sure, maybe we all know it is a dopamine enhancer at low doses and a dopamine antagonist at higher doses, but ya know, we've barely scratched the surface in identifying all the things our meds do. Sometimes I can't help but wonder if the things we think they do might just be minor players in what's really going on.
Stelazine was spoken of highly by an international psychiatrist expert. I think it was Stahl but I'm not sure. It is a very old AP. I don't know much about it, but I think Amisulpride is probably a cleaner safer one. Not an expert on that though.
Posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:28:39
In reply to Lou's request -vudupsi, posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2009, at 19:50:01
>
> bb,
> You wrote,[...certain meds..work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true...certain meds which.. will not work...>will< work on you..].Interesting editing of my words. It kind of twists what I actually said.
> I am interested in any authority that you may have to substantiate such.
I am an authority on nothing except playing outrageous guitar. That, my friend, I am an authority on.
(A), If you could post here a link to an article that shows such, then I could have a better understanding of this and respond accordingly.
www.pubmed.com Roam at will.
(B), In,[...will work on... you...], (redacted by respondent)
> LouHi Lou,
I am not an authority on anything except live guitar performance.
I thought I gave some good examples already.
Ritalin can make kids calm. What, a stimulant will calm someone down? Are you kidding? You don't need any clinical studies for that. Just visit some classrooms. Someone could actually feel tired or sleepy on an amphetamine? Are you kidding? Well, the archives here have enough examples of that to show it happens. Actually, right on this very page right now.
Me and Milnacipran. Now that made no sense at all. That drug should have wired me out. To calm me down the way it did was weird. And sleep, gosh, awesome sleep. How the heck do you increase norepinephrine and sleep good? That makes no sense to me. Milnacipran is not prescribed for anxiety, plain and simple. So why is it that it worked so well when all the obvious contenders didn't?
Go to pubmed and do some searching on your questions about studies showing how things have paradoxical effects. There is a lot there. I'm sorry, I don't bookmark every one of them, though I have read thousands of them.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 7:34:39
In reply to Re: Lou's request -vudupsi, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:28:39
>
> >
> > bb,
> > You wrote,[...certain meds..work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true...certain meds which.. will not work...>will< work on you..].
>
> Interesting editing of my words. It kind of twists what I actually said.
>
> > I am interested in any authority that you may have to substantiate such.
>
> I am an authority on nothing except playing outrageous guitar. That, my friend, I am an authority on.
>
> (A), If you could post here a link to an article that shows such, then I could have a better understanding of this and respond accordingly.
>
> www.pubmed.com Roam at will.
>
> (B), In,[...will work on... you...], (redacted by respondent)
> > Lou
>
> Hi Lou,
>
> I am not an authority on anything except live guitar performance.
>
> I thought I gave some good examples already.
>
> Ritalin can make kids calm. What, a stimulant will calm someone down? Are you kidding? You don't need any clinical studies for that. Just visit some classrooms. Someone could actually feel tired or sleepy on an amphetamine? Are you kidding? Well, the archives here have enough examples of that to show it happens. Actually, right on this very page right now.
>
> Me and Milnacipran. Now that made no sense at all. That drug should have wired me out. To calm me down the way it did was weird. And sleep, gosh, awesome sleep. How the heck do you increase norepinephrine and sleep good? That makes no sense to me. Milnacipran is not prescribed for anxiety, plain and simple. So why is it that it worked so well when all the obvious contenders didn't?
>
> Go to pubmed and do some searching on your questions about studies showing how things have paradoxical effects. There is a lot there. I'm sorry, I don't bookmark every one of them, though I have read thousands of them.
>
>
bb,
You wrote,[...you don't need..clinical studies..visit classrooms...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to convey here. If you could post here answers to the following, then I could have more infomation to respond accordingly.
A. Have you been a visitor in a classroom or in a capacity that you were in a classroom?
B. If so, in what capacity were you in to be in a classroom?
C. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, what age were the students?
D. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, and you were observing children in relation to those that were taking the chemicals you describe here, how did you know which children were taking the chemical(s) in their system or not?
E. If you made some conclusion concerning the children taking the chemicals you describe into their system, what principles of reserch did you use to make any conclusion?
F. redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 8:10:27
In reply to Re: Lou's request -vudupsi, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:28:39
>
> >
> > bb,
> > You wrote,[...certain meds..work on certain symptoms, the opposite is true...certain meds which.. will not work...>will< work on you..].
>
> Interesting editing of my words. It kind of twists what I actually said.
>
> > I am interested in any authority that you may have to substantiate such.
>
> I am an authority on nothing except playing outrageous guitar. That, my friend, I am an authority on.
>
> (A), If you could post here a link to an article that shows such, then I could have a better understanding of this and respond accordingly.
>
> www.pubmed.com Roam at will.
>
> (B), In,[...will work on... you...], (redacted by respondent)
> > Lou
>
> Hi Lou,
>
> I am not an authority on anything except live guitar performance.
>
> I thought I gave some good examples already.
>
> Ritalin can make kids calm. What, a stimulant will calm someone down? Are you kidding? You don't need any clinical studies for that. Just visit some classrooms. Someone could actually feel tired or sleepy on an amphetamine? Are you kidding? Well, the archives here have enough examples of that to show it happens. Actually, right on this very page right now.
>
> Me and Milnacipran. Now that made no sense at all. That drug should have wired me out. To calm me down the way it did was weird. And sleep, gosh, awesome sleep. How the heck do you increase norepinephrine and sleep good? That makes no sense to me. Milnacipran is not prescribed for anxiety, plain and simple. So why is it that it worked so well when all the obvious contenders didn't?
>
> Go to pubmed and do some searching on your questions about studies showing how things have paradoxical effects. There is a lot there. I'm sorry, I don't bookmark every one of them, though I have read thousands of them.
>
> bb,
You wrote,[...go to..search about studies...]
I have visited the site you have read from and could not find any substantiation to what you posted here but that does not mean that it is not there if I waa to search more.
But I do have a broad-based knowlege of other aspects of research and in relation to Ritalin, there is research to show that there could be brain changes to those that take that chemical into their system. Here is a link to one research study citation that could be found in its full text with another search.
Lou
http://www.becomehealthynow.com/article/conditionmental/152/
Posted by X-ray on September 10, 2009, at 10:04:46
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Hi,
You could try a low dose of Fluanxol.
This drug is good for anxiety.I'm presently on Buspar, but I have tried flupenthixol.
I took 0,5 mg in the morning and 0,5 mg i in the afternoon.Best regards,
X-ray
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 13:17:15
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by X-ray on September 10, 2009, at 10:04:46
Paradoxical reaction to benzos? The benzos never worked? Phillipa
Posted by tiopenster on September 10, 2009, at 13:17:29
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:15:01
> > I really appreciate your response. Going along with your reasoing, do you thing I need a decrease in Serotonin instead of an increase, which happens with SSRI's? From what I've read, Stablon is the only thing that does that. I can get this through an online pharmacy. I was also considering Stelazine or Solian (Amisulpride). Do you think any of these 3 would be useful?
>
> Awesome questions!
>
> Well, less serotonin, I don't know about that. Things just aren't that simple. Obviously more doesn't help, but I don't think less would either. I mean, there really is no way to make less except with a very targeted diet to reduce tryptophan.
>
> Though Stablon is called a serotonin reuptake enhancer, I think that can be misleading. The serotonin is still there, just in a different place. It doesn't reduce serotonin per se. Stablon has a multitude of functions apart from anything it does on serotonin. Viewing clinical studies and anecdotal reports here over the years yields two general conclusions: 1)It is generally good for treating anxiety, especially in the clinical trials; 2)A minority of people have reported it made them too hyper. But the overall view is that it is known for anti-anxiety.
>
> Amisulpride I found to be excellent anti-anxiety. The first couple days I think it made me feel more hyper. After that, excellent peace, good social comfort. I tried various doses between 25mg and 50mg. Weird, but I also found it diminished aches and pains like magic. That was an unexpected surprise I had never heard about. Sure, maybe we all know it is a dopamine enhancer at low doses and a dopamine antagonist at higher doses, but ya know, we've barely scratched the surface in identifying all the things our meds do. Sometimes I can't help but wonder if the things we think they do might just be minor players in what's really going on.
>
> Stelazine was spoken of highly by an international psychiatrist expert. I think it was Stahl but I'm not sure. It is a very old AP. I don't know much about it, but I think Amisulpride is probably a cleaner safer one. Not an expert on that though.
>
>Hi bleauberry,
Did you find that Amisulpride was good for generalized anxiety or simply for social anxiety? Most of the information I've found is that it's great for SA, but that's not my problem.
As far as Stelazine vs. Amisulpride, I think you're right about it being cleaner.
Posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2009, at 19:19:48
In reply to Lou's request -ivry » bleauberry, posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 7:34:39
I'm sorry Lou I don't think I can help you understand any more if you haven't gotten it yet. You'll have to embark on your own research.
Bizarre.
Hey, just a friendly reminder. Nearly everyone here including myself is not a scientist or a researcher.
This is a site where people are invited to share information and support. There is also a disclaimer to not believe everything you read. It is the responsibility of the reader to make their own decisions.
Yeah I know, I can see it coming a mile away already....you want proof of everything I just said above, right? :-)
Have a great day.
> A. Have you been a visitor in a classroom or in a capacity that you were in a classroom?
> B. If so, in what capacity were you in to be in a classroom?
> C. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, what age were the students?
> D. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, and you were observing children in relation to those that were taking the chemicals you describe here, how did you know which children were taking the chemical(s) in their system or not?
> E. If you made some conclusion concerning the children taking the chemicals you describe into their system, what principles of reserch did you use to make any conclusion?
> F. redacted by respondent
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 21:17:24
In reply to Re: Lou's request -ivry » Lou Pilder, posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2009, at 19:19:48
> I'm sorry Lou I don't think I can help you understand any more if you haven't gotten it yet. You'll have to embark on your own research.
>
> Bizarre.
>
> Hey, just a friendly reminder. Nearly everyone here including myself is not a scientist or a researcher.
>
> This is a site where people are invited to share information and support. There is also a disclaimer to not believe everything you read. It is the responsibility of the reader to make their own decisions.
>
> Yeah I know, I can see it coming a mile away already....you want proof of everything I just said above, right? :-)
>
> Have a great day.
>
> > A. Have you been a visitor in a classroom or in a capacity that you were in a classroom?
> > B. If so, in what capacity were you in to be in a classroom?
> > C. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, what age were the students?
> > D. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, and you were observing children in relation to those that were taking the chemicals you describe here, how did you know which children were taking the chemical(s) in their system or not?
> > E. If you made some conclusion concerning the children taking the chemicals you describe into their system, what principles of reserch did you use to make any conclusion?
> > F. redacted by respondent
> > Lou
>
> bb,
You wrote,[...It is the responsibility of the reader to make their own decisions...].
To make a decision without all of the facts that could clarify the issues could have an adverse result. The member here that innitiated this thread is looking to other members for another way to come out from his/her situation. I would like for the innitiator to have as much infomation as possible before acting on any advice since psychotropic chemicals can cause death when taken with other psychotropic drugs sometimes unbeknownst to the one taking them as to the consequences that could happen. The danger here IMHO outweighs member's opinions that are not substaniated by facts and thearfore I ask for clarification and such so that readers could make a more responsible decision.
You wrote,[...not all are sceintists or researchers here...]. That is a fact and because of that fact I ask for advice to be supported with facts so that the non-scientist could haver a better understanding of the issues in order to make a more informed decision. You wrote,[...Bazarre...]. I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that here. Could you post here the criteria that you used to write that?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 21:23:05
In reply to Lou's reply-baz » bleauberry, posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2009, at 21:17:24
> > I'm sorry Lou I don't think I can help you understand any more if you haven't gotten it yet. You'll have to embark on your own research.
> >
> > Bizarre.
> >
> > Hey, just a friendly reminder. Nearly everyone here including myself is not a scientist or a researcher.
> >
> > This is a site where people are invited to share information and support. There is also a disclaimer to not believe everything you read. It is the responsibility of the reader to make their own decisions.
> >
> > Yeah I know, I can see it coming a mile away already....you want proof of everything I just said above, right? :-)
> >
> > Have a great day.
> >
> > > A. Have you been a visitor in a classroom or in a capacity that you were in a classroom?
> > > B. If so, in what capacity were you in to be in a classroom?
> > > C. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, what age were the students?
> > > D. If you were in a capacity to be in a classroom, and you were observing children in relation to those that were taking the chemicals you describe here, how did you know which children were taking the chemical(s) in their system or not?
> > > E. If you made some conclusion concerning the children taking the chemicals you describe into their system, what principles of reserch did you use to make any conclusion?
> > > F. redacted by respondent
> > > Lou
> >
> > bb,
> You wrote,[...It is the responsibility of the reader to make their own decisions...].
> To make a decision without all of the facts that could clarify the issues could have an adverse result. The member here that innitiated this thread is looking to other members for another way to come out from his/her situation. I would like for the innitiator to have as much infomation as possible before acting on any advice since psychotropic chemicals can cause death when taken with other psychotropic drugs sometimes unbeknownst to the one taking them as to the consequences that could happen. The danger here IMHO outweighs member's opinions that are not substaniated by facts and thearfore I ask for clarification and such so that readers could make a more responsible decision.
> You wrote,[...not all are sceintists or researchers here...]. That is a fact and because of that fact I ask for advice to be supported with facts so that the non-scientist could haver a better understanding of the issues in order to make a more informed decision. You wrote,[...Bazarre...]. I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that here. Could you post here the criteria that you used to write that?
> Lou
>
> correction, as bazarre was bizarre
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 21:35:11
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Sorry usually not like this might want to start a new thread? Love Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 11, 2009, at 9:07:13
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Hi, I know that you don't want to try an MAOI, but Nardil is very good for anxiety. It's worth a try considering that you have tried everything.
ALSO, you might want to get your thyroid checked if you haven't already. The anxiety might be from an overactive thyroid which is why meds aren't helping you.
Posted by Maxime on September 11, 2009, at 9:09:19
In reply to Re: Lou's request -vudupsi, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2009, at 21:28:39
Stimulants relax me, especially ritalin. But I have never been diagnosed with ADD and I don't think I have it. Weird.
Posted by bleauberry on September 11, 2009, at 18:01:55
In reply to Re: Lou's request -vudupsi » bleauberry, posted by Maxime on September 11, 2009, at 9:09:19
> Stimulants relax me, especially ritalin. But I have never been diagnosed with ADD and I don't think I have it. Weird.
Thank you Maxime. That is exactly my point. While a stimulant probably is not the first thing or even the third, forth, or fifth thing someone would think of for relaxation, it can and does happen.
I just believe, opinion, that when the "obvious" choices are bombing out one after another, it is time to think outside the box and start doing the unobvious ones. I've just seen it happen too many times, and unfortunately the sufferings that led up to that were very long and prolonged. And oddly, it was usually an accident or coincidence that led the person to discover this thing that helped them so much but made no sense.
That's just the way it is.
If someone is treating anxiety with things that calm the nervous system, depress the nervous system, buffer the nervous system, and such, and these things are not working, then it seems, at least to me anyway, that this is obviously the wrong approach. This particular person does not need a calmed or buffered nervous system. They need a different mechanism. So get out of that class of meds. It has already been a very long tortured journey, and thus no sense letting it continue. Get off that bus and hitch a ride on a new one.
Easier said than done, I realize. But let's say for example one were to look at their list of med failures and say, "well, there isn't really anything in there with a potent NE reuptake mechanism. Then bingo, that one is now on the candidate list. Maybe it is Milnacipran, Desipramine, or Nortriptyline. There is nothing resembling a stimulant in the history. Bingo, it goes on the candidate list. The reason it goes on the list, and the only reason, is because we already know for sure that the opposite mechanism does not work.
The difficulties of trial and error continue unfortunately. But at least now we can narrow down the list of choices to things that do not resemble anything we have already tried.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 23, 2009, at 3:55:40
In reply to Re: Anxiety - I'm running out of options » tiopenster, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 21:35:11
> might want to start a new thread?
I did start a new thread, at Psycho-Babble Social, for follow-ups not about medication. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20090827/msgs/918117.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 23, 2009, at 4:01:49
In reply to Re: Lou's request -ivry » Lou Pilder, posted by bleauberry on September 10, 2009, at 19:19:48
> Bizarre.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
Lou, I'm also sorry if you felt hurt.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself are/is in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Kath on September 23, 2009, at 20:24:58
In reply to Anxiety - I'm running out of options, posted by tiopenster on September 8, 2009, at 13:59:55
Sounds like a nightmare. So sorry you're going through this.
I have a couple of thoughts. I don't mean to minimize your suffering or be disrespectful.
It's just that sometimes I think doctors don't look at really simple things. I know mind has never mentioned these:
Regarding anxiety....caffeine and sugar can both lead to anxiety. My daughter recently was reading me an article that told of numerous people losing anxiety AND panic attacks after having removed caffeine from their diets for some time. I'm in the process myself of stopping caffeine - 5 days without it now.
I would guess that the more unacceptable this thought seems, the more likely that your body is dependant on caffeine & the more chance that removing it from your diet might help. After all you've been through, it certainly might be worth a try?
Also, food allergies can sometimes cause unusual symptoms.
Just a couple of thoughts since the pharaceutical method seems to be running into brick walls.
Keep us posted as to how you're doing.
Warm thoughts, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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