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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2009, at 23:57:09
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by RobertDavid on May 19, 2009, at 20:24:23
Rob sounds like a good plan. Love as always Phillipa
Posted by jrbecker76 on May 20, 2009, at 9:49:21
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Zana on May 19, 2009, at 16:27:44
> While I agree with the emphasis on slow taper, the ashton method doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. One they recommend valium because it is has a long half life. Klonopin actually has a longer half life. And all benzos are not created equal. Klonopin improves my mood. Valium depresses me.
>
> ZamaInteresting. Klonopin depressed me more than Valium (diazepam).
As for half-lives, Valium's half-life is 20-50 hours, and one of its active metabolites has one around 200 hrs (which is much longer than klonopin's 18-50 hours), so this is why withdrawing with diazepam has been a preferred method for many clinicians. It sort of goes by the same logic of cross-tapering to Prozac from another SSRI/SNRI and then withdrawing from Prozac since it has the longest half-life in its class.
JB
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2009, at 20:30:22
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Zana, posted by jrbecker76 on May 20, 2009, at 9:49:21
Klonopin also depresses me. Valium doesn't. Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 13:51:11
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Zana, posted by jrbecker76 on May 20, 2009, at 9:49:21
After starting this thread I switched to generic klonopin from brand in an effort to save money and try to start to reduce dose to the lowest effective level if not off it all together.
I stayed on the same dose, 2mgs. But my anxiety has become unbearable, I'm withdrawing from social activities and not sleeping well. So last night I went back on brand and feel much better, slept better and feel much less social anxiety. I'm convinced that some of the generic medicines out there are bunk and dangerous. I googled the topic and seems there is a lot of information out there about this.
I still plan on going down on dose, but I'll do it using brand. It's hard enough to lower your dose on this stuff, but throwing issues with generic on top of it is more than I can deal with.
Lot's of info out there about generics vs brand and if your interestested, just google it. I suspect there are a lot of people who are taking the right medicine, but don't do well simply because of a bad batch of generic medicine.
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 2, 2009, at 14:31:04
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 13:51:11
> After starting this thread I switched to generic klonopin from brand in an effort to save money and try to start to reduce dose to the lowest effective level if not off it all together.
>
> I stayed on the same dose, 2mgs. But my anxiety has become unbearable, I'm withdrawing from social activities and not sleeping well. So last night I went back on brand and feel much better, slept better and feel much less social anxiety. I'm convinced that some of the generic medicines out there are bunk and dangerous. I googled the topic and seems there is a lot of information out there about this.
>
> I still plan on going down on dose, but I'll do it using brand. It's hard enough to lower your dose on this stuff, but throwing issues with generic on top of it is more than I can deal with.
>
> Lot's of info out there about generics vs brand and if your interestested, just google it. I suspect there are a lot of people who are taking the right medicine, but don't do well simply because of a bad batch of generic medicine.I'm glad I found this site, because I had the same problem with generic Klonopin (clonazepam). It absolutely didn't work for me. I don't know what's in it, but my reaction was exactly like yours. My pharmacist was just trying to save me money, but he had no clue how serious my panic is. If I don't take this medication, I become catatonic. I've been on it for 14 years. Unless they cure me, I will be taking it as long as I live. Moreover, Klonopin is the only drug that makes me feel normal, unlike Ativan or Valium. I don't feel spaced-out or wired.
About withdrawing: Currently I take one mg a day, but I started at three. It wasn't too hard; I took it down to two for awhile, and finally felt right at one milligram. Take it easy and listen to your body if you start feeling panicky. It's a very hard drug to withdraw from.
If you haven't already experienced this: if a doctor tries to put you on an SSRI, you should think twice. Benzos and SSRIs affect your brain in completely different ways. I have tried a very long list of alternatives, and none of them worked, including the much-hyped Cymbalta. I took one dose (30 mgs) of Cymbalta, and I literally almost died.
Good luck to you! I hope this helps.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 14:59:32
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » RobertDavid, posted by Cherry Carver on June 2, 2009, at 14:31:04
I too have been on klonopin for about 14 years for SAD and GAD. The ONLY medicine that made me feel normal. I tried all the SSRI's and so many other meds including cocktails combining meds, but it was all side effects with no benefits.
My doctor who is also an anxiety researcher told me years ago not to go generic, but in these economic times and trying to go down on dose I just thought I'd try it. As posted I bombed and can't believe how much better I feel today back on brand. So for the cost of a cup of coffee per pill I think I'll skip the coffee and go with brand klonopin.
Somehow I suspect a lot of people never find the right medicine because they tried it as generic when brand might have worked, but that's just my take.
I'm flushing the generic down the toilet where it belongs. There should be some sort of better system regulating generics as far as I'm conserned.
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2009, at 17:02:12
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 13:51:11
Robert posted a link at bottom of page seems so many problems for people on the generics. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on June 2, 2009, at 17:31:48
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Cherry Carver, posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 14:59:32
> Somehow I suspect a lot of people never find the right medicine because they tried it as generic when brand might have worked, but that's just my take.
I never thought of that, but you are absolutely right.
> I'm flushing the generic down the toilet where it belongs. There should be some sort of better system regulating generics as far as I'm conserned.I'm with you.
I recently was switched from brand name Lamictal to generic lamotrigine. I lost the benefit and relapsed into depression. When I restarted the name brand, I recovered.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2009, at 20:30:51
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » RobertDavid, posted by SLS on June 2, 2009, at 17:31:48
I know it's true. Life is too short to try and cut costs with your health. Phillipa
Posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2009, at 20:30:51
It's all interesting, but what answer do you have for those who pay out-of-pocket for their meds?
Posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2009, at 21:43:16
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
Just my opinion if only one med then do it. Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 0:08:09
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
Unfortunately I pay out of pocket and am currently unemployed, but I can't function on generic so I just have to do without to buy brand. I wish generic worked for me, but I've tried and failed twice now. I'm two days back on brand and feeling better.
Posted by rollingthunder on June 4, 2009, at 16:22:57
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Neal, posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 0:08:09
_
It would seem, just from a legal view, that those generic makers would be taking a big chance by screwing with the formula. Because anyone could take a pill and have it analyzed by a chemist and compared to brand name.
That could be a basis for a law-suite running into 8-9 figures. Why would they take the chance? Admittedly their standards may be lower, perhaps the ingredients aren't as fresh or whatever.
I take generic and haven't had problems, but maybe I'm too dumb to know the difference.
_
Posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 16:57:50
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » RobertDavid, posted by rollingthunder on June 4, 2009, at 16:22:57
It's my understading generics are allowed a variance by the FDA something like 20% +/- potency(not positive about that fact, but no doubt there is a difference). I don't think just being generic is bad and there are probably many meds that generic differences from brand are not issues. I've heard that many of the generics are made in different countries and can't imagine how they can all be tested for potency, release systems and other ingredients or that their standards for manufacturing would be the same as brand. All I know is my experence with klonopin generic, on two occasions has been a bust. I have a friend who had the same problem switching from brand zoloft to generic, within a week was having big issues and her doctor told her to go back on brand which solved the problem. I really can't afford brand right now but unfortunately I can't function without it.....
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2009, at 19:37:15
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » rollingthunder, posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 16:57:50
Rob that's wonderful that you are so much better. Love Phillipa ps now you can function again!!!!
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 4, 2009, at 20:34:24
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
I pay out of pocket for Klonopin. I'm not insured OR wealthy. I just have to do it because for me, there is no alternative. Generic clonazepam is terrible stuff.
Posted by qbsbrown on June 4, 2009, at 22:02:49
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Neal, posted by Cherry Carver on June 4, 2009, at 20:34:24
I'm finding myself in the same situation.
I'm weaning off of valium, but am taking the generic, and it's like a sugar/placebo pill.
Brand name is SUPER expensive.
I don't know what the hell to do.
Perhaps it's the generic version, Mylan, that sucks.I did fine on ivxx teva generic klonopin, and fine on sandoz generic xanax.
Generic Ativan was terrible.Maybe just switch generics?
Brian
Posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
In reply to brand name valium, SO expensive, posted by qbsbrown on June 4, 2009, at 22:02:49
How much does it cost you for brand name Valium?
It's around A$6 for 50 tablets here.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » qbsbrown, posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
2 days back on brand klonopin, felt much better switching from generic. Problem is that while on generic I had NO alcohol craving and nothing to drink. 2 days back on brand and last night went out drinking. I got to think there is some conncection to klonopin and alcohol cravings. I'm going to start to lower my dose down from 2mgs and see if that helps. Maybe I should just try to tough out generic. Not sure what to do at the moment....
Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 19:57:47
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
Rob how long were you dry? Maybe just a relapse any triggers? Sorry that happened. Seriously. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 20:41:55
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » qbsbrown, posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
Sigi about $200 for a month's supply. Love PJ
Posted by Sigismund on June 6, 2009, at 0:52:11
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 20:41:55
Thank God for a bit of socialism.
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 6, 2009, at 17:57:23
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
> 2 days back on brand klonopin, felt much better switching from generic. Problem is that while on generic I had NO alcohol craving and nothing to drink. 2 days back on brand and last night went out drinking. I got to think there is some conncection to klonopin and alcohol cravings. I'm going to start to lower my dose down from 2mgs and see if that helps. Maybe I should just try to tough out generic. Not sure what to do at the moment....
Did you start to panic while on the generic? I find that during early and full-blown stages of panic I have no desire to drink at all. It's probably a survival response (on my part, anyway).
Your physical relief may have triggered the craving. It's like getting home from a bad day at work--you need something to ease the stress you've been through.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 6, 2009, at 18:31:52
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » RobertDavid, posted by Cherry Carver on June 6, 2009, at 17:57:23
While on generic I was not myself, edgy, but trying to get my mind and body healthy. I was eating good, working out, but social anxiety was creeping back in. So when I went back on brand, same dose and immediately felt the kick, like it was so much more potent. It did reduce my anxiety, less anxious but in another way I was kind of in a drugged state, like my body needed to adjust to the more potent dose brand seemed to be for me. I know when I had anxiety before klonopin years ago I didn't drink at so I suspect theres potentially a link to cravings from not being anxious as well as taking the klonopin itself, perhaps it's just unique to me. After watching a show on CNN I'm considering adding naltrexone. If anyone has any experience with that I'd like to hear. Anyway, I've dropped my dose to 1.75 klonopinand am going to try to keep working my way down and see what happens.
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 4:11:20
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » Cherry Carver, posted by RobertDavid on June 6, 2009, at 18:31:52
I just don't see the clamor for the pretty tablets with the V cut out in it.
The math is simple... about $4 a pill or 15c a pill, for example.
Being so long on any benzodiazepine can make another one seem like a "sugar pill".
I still think there is a lot of suggestibility.
I -never- started when I first took diazepam on brand name Valium, nor alprazolam (Xanax), nor lorazepam (Ativan), nor temazepam (Restoril), nor flurazepam (Dalmane -- quite a scary and very potent sleep agent in my opinion way beyond Restoril).
If the 'effectiveness' of generic benzodiazepines are not enough, why not have the dose prescribed a bit higher?
Yes, I'm sure I'd like to see what the pretty little V is, but I'd get knocked the highest (really high) copay if they even approved it at all.
Anyhow, just my opinion.-- Jay
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