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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 9:25:14
so i've now been on nardil of total of 8 weeks, 6 weeks @ 60mg, and overall it has been a mixed yet interesting experience.
on the plus side: i would like to concur that, side-effects not withstanding, this, in terms of pure AD effect completes immolates SSRI's; i feel no emotional numbness, no drugged out feeling, etc. i haven't experienced any identifiable 'kick-in' that people describe; rather the effects can mainly be pinned down to subtle changes in my interactions with people. after 4 years spent alienated from my family, i am a lot more open with my parents now, and can actually sustain a genuine conversation with my mom and dad. i have also had my personality restored to baseline, and am able to joke around again etc. after feeling emotionally/mentally void from what i believe was chronic SSRI withdrawal last year (yet which was naturally diagnosed as depression by pdoc). at this stage, there is no strong pro-social effect. i am still shy around strangers, especially girls, though will maybe feel more comfortable in striking up a conversation with shopkeepers, etc.
now for the bad:
i am not sure whether it's a rebound effect from benzos, or a lack of sleep, or even a boost in confidence after a life spent being pushed around by others, but i am A LOT more aggressive at times, and will actively seek out confrontations so that i can prove myself capable of standing up to others. my sleep is also horrendous. even with breaks of up to 2 days at a time, i am now almost completely tolerant to zipoclone, temazepam and clonazepam. each allows me an unbroken sleep period of 3 or so hours, after which i will experience small snatches of 20-minutes or so of sleep at time without actually realizing it (my only indicator is that time seems to be moving faster than usual). on nights i dont take a benzo, i pile up on alternative supplements (skullcap, inositol, p5p, melatonin) and experience 3 or so hours of sleep that is far less refreshing than the same amount on a benzo. the last time i sleep decently was 4 days ago. since then i;ve had maybe 12 hours of sleep, and am feeling incredibly edgy/distressed. coffee has been a definite saviour in preventing narcoleptic collapse during this whole trial. also have inorgasmia, bad gas, constipation (which are more tolerable i guess). It has not touched my OCD and i still have bad bouts of depersonalization. also strangely due to the pleasure it induces in everyday activity, i am a LOT more hedonistic. i am motivated yet mainly applying that motivation to socialization, working out at the gym etc. i have far less interest in confronting phobic activities yet guess that's what therapy's for. no weight gain so far. memory's pretty bad.
so ... overall ... i appreciate its positive effect on my personality yet can barely function due to insomnia. i am meeting my pdoc on tuesday for the first time since i began it so will see what he has to say. as i mentioned in another thread, for personal reasons i refuse to remain on a sleep-med longterm, and will def. not take an anti-psychotic, so if the insomnia does not ease up then i'm afraid i will have to discontinue it. neverhteless, i am incredibly scared of coming off it due to the way it has had such a positive effect on my physical anxiety, whose inevitable return i dread. is there a chance insomnia can lessen at 75mg or will it just make it worse? also, i am tolerating the anti-choligernic effects for now, but if i do stay on will definitely look into augmentation (i remember Chairman-MAO saying he had great success with galantamine). i also have a bottle of GPC-choline which i have yet to touch.
Posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2009, at 12:41:36
In reply to nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 9:25:14
ggg unit I give you credit for sticking with the med with the insomnia. Any idea what doc will say? If you were to stop what would you take? Any idea. So good and bad in all I guess. Love Phillipa
Posted by mav27 on March 13, 2009, at 15:55:59
In reply to nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 9:25:14
Pretty much the same as my experiance with nardil, except hypotension was my main problem. The insomnia i was only able to get around by using a small amount of seroquel which is also the only anti-psychotic i can tolerate taking as it doesn't give me that wierd anti-psychotic feeling at low doses, just puts me to sleep. I went up to 90mg at one trial and the constipoation was so bad i thought my abdomum would explode at times.
Posted by sam K on March 13, 2009, at 17:04:12
In reply to nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 9:25:14
hey have you tried unisom for sleep? doxylamine succinate or something like that. it gets me to sleep no matter what. its otc
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 19:09:51
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by mav27 on March 13, 2009, at 15:55:59
> Pretty much the same as my experiance with nardil, except hypotension was my main problem. The insomnia i was only able to get around by using a small amount of seroquel which is also the only anti-psychotic i can tolerate taking as it doesn't give me that wierd anti-psychotic feeling at low doses, just puts me to sleep. I went up to 90mg at one trial and the constipoation was so bad i thought my abdomum would explode at times.
interesting. same experience as in insomnia, etc. or did you also undergo the more specific stuff i mentioned like increased aggression?
Posted by mav27 on March 13, 2009, at 19:56:44
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 19:09:51
> > Pretty much the same as my experiance with nardil, except hypotension was my main problem. The insomnia i was only able to get around by using a small amount of seroquel which is also the only anti-psychotic i can tolerate taking as it doesn't give me that wierd anti-psychotic feeling at low doses, just puts me to sleep. I went up to 90mg at one trial and the constipoation was so bad i thought my abdomum would explode at times.
>
> interesting. same experience as in insomnia, etc. or did you also undergo the more specific stuff i mentioned like increased aggression?
>
>Hard to tell with me if aggression is caused by meds or lack of sleep because i'm terrible when im sleepy and become very aggressive regardless of if i'm on meds or not.
The rest seems similar to my experiance, although i found i needed to add clonazepam still just to help with the sort of 'anticipatery' anxiety (not sure if i spelt that right) With the nardil i was alot more comfortable speaking to people when it was happening but the thought of speaking to people before hand still caused anxiety which the clonazepam fixed.
So it was like clonazepam got me out of the house and nardil made me more normal when actually out.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 23:22:36
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » g_g_g_unit, posted by mav27 on March 13, 2009, at 19:56:44
that's true. as soon as i have a decent night's sleep the aggression disappears. maybe my strategy of using benzos every second night should be reassessed as well, since i'm probably experiencing constant rebound insomnia, which may be aggravating the nardil insomnia. it's unfortunate. most SSRI's i would use just to 'get them out of the way' on my path to Nardil. but now, for the first time, i am genuinely conflicted about staying on a drug. i too still experience a lot of anticipatory anxiety (about *everything*, since i have GAD + OCD) but the nardil allows me to function better in the moment. hmm. are you on anything now? have you tried Parnate?
>
> Hard to tell with me if aggression is caused by meds or lack of sleep because i'm terrible when im sleepy and become very aggressive regardless of if i'm on meds or not.
>
> The rest seems similar to my experiance, although i found i needed to add clonazepam still just to help with the sort of 'anticipatery' anxiety (not sure if i spelt that right) With the nardil i was alot more comfortable speaking to people when it was happening but the thought of speaking to people before hand still caused anxiety which the clonazepam fixed.
>
> So it was like clonazepam got me out of the house and nardil made me more normal when actually out.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 23:27:46
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » g_g_g_unit, posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2009, at 12:41:36
> ggg unit I give you credit for sticking with the med with the insomnia. Any idea what doc will say? If you were to stop what would you take? Any idea. So good and bad in all I guess. Love Phillipa
thanks phillipa. no idea what doc will say, i think he is growing a little sick of my fussiness to be honest, though at 100$ per half hour i imagine i retain some control over my psychopharmacological destiny :) no idea where to go next ... i'm dealing with an alternative-medicine GP who is treating my histamine levels, and believes that will greatly aid my OCD, possibly to the point where I no longer require medication. otherwise, maybe Parnate or Memantine
Posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2009, at 0:30:33
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 23:27:46
g_g_g alternative docs use regular meds also? Love Phillipa
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 14, 2009, at 1:48:57
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » g_g_g_unit, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2009, at 0:30:33
> g_g_g alternative docs use regular meds also? Love Phillipa
well he's a GP, so yes. alternative medicine is a side-interest of his.
Posted by mav27 on March 14, 2009, at 12:55:05
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 13, 2009, at 23:22:36
I tried parnate as well but it either made me sleepy at low dose or at 30mg and above caused the hypotension i got with nardil which again left me in hospital a dozen times.
Right now i'm on luvox, only just started, it's strange in that i'm starting off again with the ssri's which i first started 8 years ago but up until a year ago couldn't tolerate due to horrid side effects such as sexual dysfunction and making me feel like a zombie. But as of half way through last year after giving up on parnate i became desperate and had some lexapro sitting around so i tried it... and not a single side effect... now i don't get any side effects at all on ssri's, not even the startup ones like insomnia, nausea ect... so yeah back to square one for me. I was doing well on the lexapro but i thought it was making me sleep 15 hours a day... turns out it wasn't the lexapro but we still can't figure out what's making me sleep so much.
> that's true. as soon as i have a decent night's sleep the aggression disappears. maybe my strategy of using benzos every second night should be reassessed as well, since i'm probably experiencing constant rebound insomnia, which may be aggravating the nardil insomnia. it's unfortunate. most SSRI's i would use just to 'get them out of the way' on my path to Nardil. but now, for the first time, i am genuinely conflicted about staying on a drug. i too still experience a lot of anticipatory anxiety (about *everything*, since i have GAD + OCD) but the nardil allows me to function better in the moment. hmm. are you on anything now? have you tried Parnate?
> >
> > Hard to tell with me if aggression is caused by meds or lack of sleep because i'm terrible when im sleepy and become very aggressive regardless of if i'm on meds or not.
> >
> > The rest seems similar to my experiance, although i found i needed to add clonazepam still just to help with the sort of 'anticipatery' anxiety (not sure if i spelt that right) With the nardil i was alot more comfortable speaking to people when it was happening but the thought of speaking to people before hand still caused anxiety which the clonazepam fixed.
> >
> > So it was like clonazepam got me out of the house and nardil made me more normal when actually out.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2009, at 19:50:22
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » g_g_g_unit, posted by mav27 on March 14, 2009, at 12:55:05
Mav was never on an MAOI but all the SSRI's and SNRI's. Seems the same thing happening to me the tiredness on the luvox used to have insomnia. Now the opposite so lowing benzos are you on them? Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on March 14, 2009, at 22:54:05
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » g_g_g_unit, posted by mav27 on March 14, 2009, at 12:55:05
u tried trazodone for sleep?
clonidine might work too
-d/r
Posted by mav27 on March 15, 2009, at 3:54:51
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » mav27, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2009, at 19:50:22
> Mav was never on an MAOI but all the SSRI's and SNRI's. Seems the same thing happening to me the tiredness on the luvox used to have insomnia. Now the opposite so lowing benzos are you on them? Love Phillipa
Yeah i'm currently on alprazolam 3mg per day, i'm still not sure if i like it as much as the clonazepam but the clonazepam was giving me a sort of depressed feeling slightly different from my normal feeling of depression which is why i switched to alprazolam.
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2009, at 18:41:43
In reply to Re: nardil @ 8 weeks - the good, the bad, and the ugly » Phillipa, posted by mav27 on March 15, 2009, at 3:54:51
Klonopin gave me suicidal feelings and wasn't. Called the pdoc and he immediately switched me back to xanax which was on then. Feelings immediately went away. Ativan worked well also for me.
This is the end of the thread.
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