![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:45:45
I have a theory: and I want everyone to comment on it, Please.
Drug withdrawal creates a large demand for cortisol. People with a cortisol deficiency (like those with adrenal fatigue) , are unable to create enough cortisol to meet the demands of withdrawal. This in turn causes very bad withdrawal symptoms because cortisol helps mobilize your body for stress, and without it your body cannot deal with the nasty stress of withdrawal (Hence causing an aggravation of withdrawal symptoms).
I say this because I was diagnosed with low cortisol, and I want to know if my low cortisol is aggravating the Ambien withdrawal -> should I be supplementing with cortisol (like IsoCort) to ease the withdrawal? Is withdrawal particularly hard on those with adrenal fatigue/Low cortisol??
Please, I want to hear everyone's opinion!
Posted by Relapse on February 26, 2009, at 10:10:22
In reply to Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:45:45
G-man
I wish I could be of more help. I have taken Ambien on a long term basis, but only as needed. That said, I started taking 200 mg. of Seroquel about 2 months ago, for sleep (every night), after a relapse. Your post has me wondering if I'm in the same position as you are.
Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 10:57:10
In reply to Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:45:45
How did they test your cortisone levels to arrive at adrenal fatique as blood levels said I was okay but I'm not. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 13:27:01
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 10:57:10
Philippa,
I had a salivary cortisol test. It was taken 4 times during the whole day. My nutritionist (who did the test) said that blood cortisol tests are inaccurate.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 13:37:46
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 10:57:10
I'm having really nasty ambien withdrawal. I was taking Klonopin, but it wasn't working, so my doc switched me to Valium to help the ambien withdrawal. Does anyone have any suggestions to help with Ambien withdrawal?
Posted by bleauberry on February 26, 2009, at 17:02:19
In reply to Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:45:45
Adrenal fatigue is common in many diseases that cause bodily stress. It is common and probably largely undiagnosed in the general population, with the causes being lousy food choices, hectic schedules, stress bombardment, drugs or alcohol, 21st century competition, some prescriptions, and irregular sleep routines.
I've spent hundreds of hours at forums that deal with this topic. Basically it can be summed up like this...
Everyone finds something helpful, but it is different for each person. For some, simple things like licorice root extract (slows the breakdown of existing cortisol) is helpful. For others they find Isocort more helpful. For some they take a combination of both. Others prefer a different brand of adrenal cortex extract. Other supposed adrenal herbs hardly ever do anyone any good, so don't even go that route. Waste of time and health. But for a majority, they usually end up with the real deal...hydrocortisone in doses ranging from 5mg to 20mg per day total.
Hydrocortisone was the only one I could tolerate with any kind of good effect. I only took 2.5mg because I'm sensitive, and started at 1.25mg. I tell you what, it completely kicked anxiety's butt. Calm calm calm.
I have had this strange symptom for years of going to bed tired and sleepy, sleeping fine, but as soon as I wake up I am engulfed in an unprovoked unjustified state of anxiety, nervousness, fear, almost panic attack. Feels very insane-like. Then it goes away on its own in an hour or two. Like clockwork. Very predictable. It wasn't until I had the saliva cortisol test that we could see why. My cortisol was very low during 3 of the 4 readings, but was very high at the time I wake up. The tiny HC dose I took created a feedback mechanism that not only lifted up the low values of the daytime, but also squashed down the high values at waking. It was so nice to wake up calm and serene. As my doc stated, my adrenals blew their wad first thing in the morning and then were pooped out all day. The daytime dose fixed that and also prevented the adrenals from accidentally overdoing it every morning.
Another route to accomplish the same thing sounds weird but works. That is, something that is a strong norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Cymbalta was not strong enough on NE, but helped some; Nortriptyline had an allergic reaction; Milnacipran worked very well. All had an initial worsening during the first 3 days which quickly turned around into calmness. I found SSRIs useless as they seemed to squash cortisol even lower than it was.
The whole idea of cortisol supplementation is to give the adrenals a rest, take some stress off them, and to raise body levels up to normal so you can heal. Most people end up weaning off it carefully after 6 months to a year and things stay fine after that as long as they respect well-prepared diets and lifestyles that don't allow the adrenals to be overstressed again.
Anyway, in terms of sleep, withdrawals, and anxiety, I have never had anything work as well as a tiny dose of HC.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 19:11:21
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by bleauberry on February 26, 2009, at 17:02:19
Dear Bleuberry,
Do u live in the US or Canada?
My nutritionist recomended IsoCort to supp cortisol. But just like you, I am skeptical about herbal adrenal remedies, and I'm afraid that IsoCort may make me feel worse.
I don't know how to get Hydrocortisone. My internist thinks that salivary tests are "quackery". So I don't know who I can find to write a script for hydrocortisone. What do you think?
Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 20:10:23
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by bleauberry on February 26, 2009, at 17:02:19
Hydrocortisone killed my Mother when I was 17 new drug and caused Addison's disease. Never will take this med. Love Phillipa
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 23:10:02
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 20:10:23
Philippa,
I am so sorry for your loss.
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 19:18:57
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 23:10:02
G man that is sweet thanks Love Phillipa so many years ago.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 28, 2009, at 22:32:24
In reply to Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:45:45
> I have a theory: and I want everyone to comment on it, Please.
>
> Drug withdrawal creates a large demand for cortisol. People with a cortisol deficiency (like those with adrenal fatigue) , are unable to create enough cortisol to meet the demands of withdrawal. This in turn causes very bad withdrawal symptoms because cortisol helps mobilize your body for stress, and without it your body cannot deal with the nasty stress of withdrawal (Hence causing an aggravation of withdrawal symptoms).
>
> I say this because I was diagnosed with low cortisol, and I want to know if my low cortisol is aggravating the Ambien withdrawal -> should I be supplementing with cortisol (like IsoCort) to ease the withdrawal? Is withdrawal particularly hard on those with adrenal fatigue/Low cortisol??
>
> Please, I want to hear everyone's opinion!
>So how's it going G-mann? You getting answers to your questions? Would be really interested to know where you're at and what conclusions you've made re: cortisol, adrenals, Etc.
But especially wanted to say I hope you are feeling much better. What are you currently taking? Withdrawing from? Glad to see you are going to figure this out. Wish I could help, but I know nothing about this subject other than I know what its like to feel like complete sh*t. I'm in remission now, and you will be too.
~Jade ;-)
Posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 4:26:37
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by JadeKelly on February 28, 2009, at 22:32:24
Jade,
I am plagued by Ambien withdrawal. I think its also making me more irritable, angrier, and depressed. I cannot rid myself of this poison.
My doctor gave me Valium to help, but its NOT helping and I think the Valium is actually AGGRAVATING the Ambien withdrawal! I don't know what to do!!
I'm scared!
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 19:01:22
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 4:26:37
Get ahold of your pdoc right now and let him know what going on and if that bad hospital ER. Phillipa know that I care.
Posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 20:30:06
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 19:01:22
Thanks Phillipa.
I've been to the Psych ward about 8 times in the last 3 years, and I am getting really sick of that place. Its a nasty, sadistic, scary place.
My holistic doc is gonna give me IsoCort this week, I hope that helps the withdrawal.. He also recommended Interplexus Adapt adrenal formula - I hope these help me, because I HATE hospitals!
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 20:45:42
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 20:30:06
I hear you loud and clear feel the same way. Good luck. Love Phillipa
Posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 20:51:25
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 20:45:42
I love you too, Philippa!
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 22:23:03
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 20:51:25
You're a sweetie!!!! Love again Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on March 2, 2009, at 23:31:29
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by G-man885858 on March 2, 2009, at 4:26:37
> Jade,
>
> I am plagued by Ambien withdrawal. I think its also making me more irritable, angrier, and depressed. I cannot rid myself of this poison.
>
> My doctor gave me Valium to help, but its NOT helping and I think the Valium is actually AGGRAVATING the Ambien withdrawal! I don't know what to do!!
>
> I'm scared!G-Mann,
Don't be scared! It'll be alright. Remember this is temporary! I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post earlier, you'll want to check box if posting to last person, or add their name to title of post.
So no luck with the Cortisal or Adrenal tests? I think I asked you this before, did you slow down the withdrawal? YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SLOW DOWN THE WITHDRAWAL!!!!!!. Have you done that? I know you want the poison out of your body, who can blame you? But your body has adjusted to it, and does not want a quick withdrawal. I think you'd need to withdraw at a rate you can tolerate! If your PDoc can't come up with a better idea, then do it on your own. How much do you have left? If none or close to none then lets deal with that first. You can't, and shouldnt, suffer like this over an ambien withdrawal.
I'm tapering off of Klonopin right now. I'm feeling a little irritable and slow. Nothing like what you are going thru. Please write me back with answers:
1.Does PDoc know the hel* your'e going thru?
2.Is he/she willing to slow down taper?
3.Is he/she willing to do something better/different that valium? And stay in touch until you find solution?
4. I agree psych hospitals su*k and that is not a solution unless you see it as one. I personally don't.***TELL ME IF I'M WRONG: I'm suspecting you are out of Ambien and your PDoc won't give you any more. We've all been there. You may have to do one of the following,
~Stop at one of those urgent care places when Dr.office is closed. Just tell them your GP can't see you right away and you can't sleep and that has worked for you before. Don't look like a drug seeker. Do you have insurance? You may have to pay something, find one that takes your insurance. Ask for a month script as you can't afford two Dr. visits, and two scripts. Say please if you have to!
~Go to your GP, tell them you can't sleep, you want to try Ambien, your brother-in-law swears by it. Get what you can till you figure this out. Clean yourself up as best you can and if they say somthing about how you look, say its because you've had no sleep in days! You had a bad break-up or somthing.
~Go to ER and tell them the truth. Your Doc had you withdraw at an unreasonable rate and its becoming a serious problem for you. Again, your not a drug seeker, you just want to feel reasonably well.
Good Luck G-Mann....don't allow this to continue please!!! Take care of it ASAP. Post back with answers and what you plan to do!
Btw-you should turn on your babblemail-its just like we are talking now, except its private from other posters, more importantly,it goes directly to recipients email from you. Niether party gets the others email, it goes thru babble.Here's how:
Find any post I made and see my name at top, should be blue, sometimes purple. Click on that. It will take you to a babblemail box. Scroll to bottom of box and I believe you will see a registration box, register (easy). Go back to top and click on settings, it should say we are both set for babble mail. Then type your message, click boxes you want clicked, then remember to go back to bottom of box to hit submit.
Okay! Get on that Ambien!
Let me know how you make out.
PS-What other meds are you on?~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on March 4, 2009, at 3:08:15
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by JadeKelly on March 2, 2009, at 23:31:29
Dear Jade,
I think the ambien withdrawal is actually dying down, FINALLY!!! I found some Ambien CR in my house, and I took that over the last 2 nites INSTEAD of Regular Ambien, and I think its helping!!
I'm just so mad that Valium is NOT helping withdrawal! Who's ever heard of that?
Posted by G-man885858 on March 5, 2009, at 16:05:01
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal » G-man885858, posted by JadeKelly on March 2, 2009, at 23:31:29
Jade,
I have an adequate supply of Ambien... that's not the problem. The problem is the side effects caused BY the ambien. But I think they're slowly subsiding because I switched regular ambien for Ambien CR, which is a better, safer form of Ambien. I just wanted to clear that up for you, Jade- because I may have confused you by mistake.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.