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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 13:07:30
last night was remarkable. i felt like i was responding because again, as has happened with atomoxetine, i felt my vision open up like everything in my field of view was accounted for, like i might be able to teach myself to drive a motor vehicle. i felt more coordinated apart from the awareness i seemed to be gaining, i felt like i could really look down the whole street and see where i was going. i could start see what i used to like when i would just look up at stuff. i wasn't an anxious and wanting to get home out of view as soon as possible...
that was quite a while after a 15mg dose of buspirone, and i drank a beer and left the house. i don't usually drink unless out where people are, so the alcohol in it could have been part of it, but it rarely adds to any feeling of awareness.
i took my second dose when i came back in. in a bit, my jaw was tingling again, i wasn't feeling as aware. i fell asleep, woke up today, stiff, arms buzzing, awful, feeling no benefits. but i also woke up extra groggy, as if i had been severely exhausted or getting over a flu.
so i have only take five doses. yesterday, two at 15mg, the day before at 10mg. 10mg today for some reason, i think i was thinking of the second dose i took when i got home, and felt a worsening of EPS, wondering if i was "building" somehow at 15mg despite the remarkably short half life. but i don't want to stay at a dose that won't help, and then i'll forget and move onto another drug... i also do not want anymore permanent damage, the D2 issue really scares me.
blowing off this drug will be regrettable, even if it doesn't work at all in the long run, i believe i have very good reason to believe my problems are due to too much SE (leading to weakening DAergic system) because of how my permanent EPS started with SSRIs years upon years ago. if this doesn't work there isn't much left. and nothing in the pipeline that is more 5-ht1a selective that looks like it is actually going to get through. i guess i could ask for Special Access for tandospirone from japan or something... (maybe this is a good idea?)
(and, my doctor doesn't disapprove of my doing this (tinkiering), in case i should mention this.)
SO THE MAIN QUESTION IS (sorry for being disorganized as usual):
i decided 10mg (as in the first of 10mg b.i.d) was the dose today, just an hour ago about. i am still stiff. i felt like buspirone has been associated with both relief and worsening so it is complex. i feel like if i don't stay at 15mg, i won't recognize the benefit when/if i do go up to it. i don't notice things easily... i really don't know what to do. maybe i should keep thinking about that tandospirone, has that ever caused EPS, akathisia, or tardive syndromes to anyones' knowledge?
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2009, at 13:11:05
In reply to buspirone dosing, posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 13:07:30
How do you react to Remeron?
- Scott
Posted by Garnet71 on February 19, 2009, at 14:12:09
In reply to buspirone dosing, posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 13:07:30
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/drugs/buspirone-017800.htm
Posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:14:32
In reply to Re: buspirone dosing, posted by SLS on February 19, 2009, at 13:11:05
only with extreme fatigue, pretty much.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:21:51
In reply to buspirone dosing, posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 13:07:30
Posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:43:39
In reply to holy moly. i need to research tandospirone more. (nm), posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:21:51
umm... holy f***, this seems like exactly what i need:
Paroxetine-Induced Bruxism Effectively Treated With Tandospirone
http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/90
---
Successful treatment of blepharospasm with tandospirone, a 5-HT1A partial agonist: a case report.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17987656
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Use of a serotonin 1A receptor agonist to treat restless legs syndrome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17110833
---
then there's the stuff on how tandospirone improves cognition is schizophrenia, but buspirone does not. i'm not sure what accounts for this, probably something other than D2 occupancy (D2 blockade is likely already pretty heavy in those pts), maybe where they stand on the line in between antagonist to full agonist causes different response. while i do not have schizophrenia, i always wonder if my cognitive problems and deadened are serotonin related, this drug may be a purer and clearer way of testing this mechanism than buspirone, not to mention due to the fact that i can probably increase the dose to a higher level without worrying about D2.
there's probably more article wise. this is the first tandospirone specific search i have done, and i only went as far as the second page of results.
i may be able to convince my doctor to send in a request to the Special Access Programme for this. my currently existing extrapyramidal problems are reason enough to explain how buspirone could be unsuitable if he is asked. (amisulpride was a cinch when he tried to get it for me, but when he tried to get reboxetine for someone else, he was asked a huge amount of questions by pfizer (probably predicably, given that they would rather try to sell you drugs they already have in that market))
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2009, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: buspirone dosing » SLS, posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:14:32
> only with extreme fatigue, pretty much.
You might be profiting from the serotonin 5-HT1a receptor partial agonism of buspirone. I guess you figured that out already. It really sucks that gepirone never made it to market.
One of the problems with buspirone is that it is extensively metabolized into 1PP. 1PP acts a lot like Remeron, a NE alpha-2 antagonist. Tandospirone does the same thing. For me, this is no good. However, for others, it might be one of the reasons buspirone has an antidepressant effect. Flesinoxan is another 5-HT1a partial agonist. It is not metabolized to 1PP. I would have liked to try that one myself.
- Scott
Posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:51:48
In reply to Re: buspirone dosing » iforgotmypassword, posted by SLS on February 19, 2009, at 15:43:42
> > only with extreme fatigue, pretty much.
>
> You might be profiting from the serotonin 5-HT1a receptor partial agonism of buspirone. I guess you figured that out already. It really sucks that gepirone never made it to market.
>
> One of the problems with buspirone is that it is extensively metabolized into 1PP. 1PP acts a lot like Remeron, a NE alpha-2 antagonist. Tandospirone does the same thing. For me, this is no good. However, for others, it might be one of the reasons buspirone has an antidepressant effect. Flesinoxan is another 5-HT1a partial agonist. It is not metabolized to 1PP. I would have liked to try that one myself.
>
>
> - Scott
>yeah, i worried about that effect since i already have attention and anger issues, but i couldn't find much. i was hoping it wasn't significant, and for some reason even though it's a drug of the same type, i figured it would be even less of an issue for tandospirone as i thought they may have chosen a much cleaner and refined molecule before seeking approval for it. it's too bad that it's still an issue.
do they mention which drugs metabolise into higher levels of the 1-PP metabolite?
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2009, at 16:07:26
In reply to Re: buspirone dosing » SLS, posted by iforgotmypassword on February 19, 2009, at 15:51:48
> do they mention which drugs metabolise into higher levels of the 1-PP metabolite?
I found out that buspirone produces 1PP at much higher levels than ipsapirone.
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articlerender.cgi?artid=1231299
- Scott
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