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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by freedom2001 on April 12, 2003, at 21:56:03
I have OCD since 14 and am now 28. I've lost much of my youth due to this devastating illness. After years of research, trials and errors on various drugs, here is my current cocktail to fight OCD.....Hope to share with you guys and ladies here who are all suffering from OCD. God bless and may there be a better understanding of OCD and better treatment for it soon....
Take a nutritional supplement of
1 calcium, (calcium carbonate, NO calcium gluconate)
2 magnesium (magnesium hydroxide or magnesium oxide - NO magnesium
aspartate, taurate or gluconate pls)
3 zinc
4 vitamin D
5 vitamin C (time released 1000mg buffered C )
6 High Concentration Omega 3 fish oil (4000 mg EPA+DHA) - the
weight is NOT the capsules, but the EPA+DHA7 AVOID FOLIC ACID (one of the B vitamins) and COPPER supplements! They make your OCD worse.
AVOID CAFFEINE, COCOA (eg. chocolate, ice cream)AND JUNK FOODS SUCH AS FAST FOOD! But I guess it's pretty okay to take fast food or ice cream once in a while if you thirst for them.
All these helps in alleviating the symptoms of OCD too. And they are all natural.
But remember to take your prozac, augment it with 1.5 mg clonazepam as well. I'm on average 90mg prozac (80 mg does not really help). This means I take 80 mg on tue and thurs while I take 100 mg on mon, wed, fri etc.For sleep, trazodone (50mg) is an excellent choice.
There are some people who go up to 120mg Prozac but be careful as different people have different bodies.
IMPORTANT: And get PLENTY of SLEEP and REST.
OCD needs a 'cocktail' of meds and supplements to fight against it.
Regards.
Freedom.God Save Us All! Pls help to pray for me, all OCD patients and other patients with illnesses that we have get back our life.
Posted by ace on April 12, 2003, at 22:58:32
In reply to COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by freedom2001 on April 12, 2003, at 21:56:03
Good on you Freedom for posting this.
I might now suggest some augmentative drugs for oCD...
1. Pindolol
2. Clonidine,
3. Bromocriptine
4. BusPar
5. Klonopin
6. Zyprexa
7. Risperidone.That's it for the moment!
OCD sufferers unite!
Ace.
Posted by McPac on April 12, 2003, at 23:18:18
In reply to COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by freedom2001 on April 12, 2003, at 21:56:03
freedom,
Scratch the magnesium OXIDE off your list! Magnesium in the oxide form is pure JUNK---terribly absorbed and utilized by the body. Take magnesium glycinate instead.
As for the calcium, I don't believe that calcium in carbonate form is absorbed too well itself. There are much better forms as well (not positive which ones are best so I'll refrain from saying). As for your advice to avoid folic acid and copper, please post links that support that if you happen to have a link. I would be very interested in that link for various reasons. Inositol has also been shown to help some with OCD. In the study, participants were given 12-18 grams of inositol a day (a very large amount). freedom, has your OCD at times COMPLETELY incapacitated you? <Made you unable to do ANYTHING except sit and think, think, think, with NO stopping the obsessive thinking (IF you have the obsessional thinking type)? Did it ever REALLY 'hurt', NOT like a bad headache but hurt in a terrible MENTAL, torture pain kind of way? Take Care!!
Posted by freedom2001 on April 13, 2003, at 4:04:03
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by McPac on April 12, 2003, at 23:18:18
> freedom,
Hi OCD fighters,
>
> Scratch the magnesium OXIDE off your list! Magnesium in the oxide form is pure JUNK---terribly absorbed and utilized by the body. Take magnesium glycinate instead.Is there any link on the magnesium issue? (interesting).
Why is magnesium oxide terribly absorbed?
Will magnesium glycinate worsen OCD? I do read that magnesium aspartate, taurate and gluconate worsen depression. So I presume it will worsen OCD as well, since depression and OCD are linked together. I wouldn't take my chances with any gluconate/taurate or aspartate stuffs. Even if magnesium oxide is poorly absorbed, I think it's worth it coz it won't worsen OCD.I've searched through our Guardian pharmacy in Singapore. There are 2 No.1 best sellers, one from the USA (Caltrate), the other from the UK (Osteocare).
I chose the UK over the USA coz the USA Caltrate has too low magnesium levels and it includes copper, which can worsen OCD. Nonetheless, it is an excellent choice for building and maintaining bones (for those without OCD I suppose).
The UK Osteocare contains a nice combination of calcium, magnesium, zinc and vitamin D.
> As for the calcium, I don't believe that calcium in carbonate form is absorbed too well itself. There are much better forms as well (not positive which ones are best so I'll refrain from saying).
They say coral calcium from Japan is good. But sometimes the calcium composition itself is very good. But the accompanying minerals such as magnesium, vitamin D and zinc may be absent or too low.
Also, I learnt that there is another USA brand with patented calcium L-???????. But unfortunately, I don't think it includes zinc and vitamin D.
As for your advice to avoid folic acid and copper, please post links that support that if you happen to have a link. I would be very interested in that link for various reasons.
I will have to dig up google using various keywords, which would be very tiring. Instead i will post what I have gathered here:
"With respect to a child with the rituals, a more direct approach would be to use methionine, calcium, magnesium, trimethylglycine, and possibly SAMe... along with avoidance of folic acid supplements.
Methylation therapy is a direct and effective way to treat OCD tendencies, and we regard Inositol as a valuable adjunct therapy. Note that use of folic acid and B-12 is NOT indicated since the methyl-trapping effect greatly exceeds the benefits of enhanced conversion of homocystine to methionine."
"Generally, OCD patients respond nicely to methonine, SAMe, calcium, magnesium, B-6, Inositol, TMG, and zinc. Most OCD patients get worse if given supplements of DMAE, choline, copper, or folic acid.
Mary Reed, Herbalist
http://www.marysherbs.com/";
"1) High Histamine (under-methylated)40-70 is optimum histamine range for mental health considerations. Histamine is an important neurotransmitter which affects human behavior. This syndrome often involves seasonal variations in depression, obsessive-compulsive behavior, inhalant allergies, and frequent headaches. In severe cases involving psychosis, the dominant symptom is usually delusional thinking rather than hallucinations. They tend to speak very little and may sit motionless for extended periods. They may appear outwardly calm, but suffer from extreme internal anxiety. Most OCD patients with both obsessive thoughts and compulsive actions are in this category. Associated with under-methylation, which results in low levels of important neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. Treatment focuses on the use of antifolates such as calcium, methionine, SAMe, magnesium, zinc, TMG, omega-3 essential oils, B6, inositol, and A, C and E. The dose of inositol is 500 to 1000mg. Choline is anti-dopaminergic and often makes undermethylated patients worse. Also bad are DMAE, copper and folic acid. Three to six months of nutrient therapy are necessary to correct this chemical imbalance. Symptoms will return if treatment is stopped. Two good labs for whole blood histamine are LabCorp and Quest. Also use a special absolute basophil count as a methlyation marker. The count must be direct and not differential. Alcian blue dye is the preferred staining agent. Best lab for this test is Direct Healthcare Access in Glenview IL 847 299 2440"
"A. Undermethylation: This condition is innate & is characterized by low levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, high whole blood histamine and elevated absolute basophils. This population has a high incidence of seasonal allergies, OCD tendencies, perfectionism, high libido, sparse body hair, and several other characteristics. They usually respond well to methionine, SAMe, calcium, magnesium, omega-3 essential oils (DHA & EPA), B-6, inositol, and vitamins A, C, and E. They should avoid supplements containing folic acid. In severe cases involving psychosis, the dominant symptom is usually delusional thinking rather than hallucinations. They tend to speak very little & may sit motionless for extended periods. They may appear outwardly calm, but suffer from extreme internal anxiety."
"Metabolic Types
About 7 years ago, I developed a classification system which subdivides the entire population into 26 metabolic types (Types A through Z). A small company in Illinois carried out a pilot study of this system (which they called "Bio-Logic") and provided compounded nutrients to more than 1,000 clients who paid for this service. The use of this system was limited to "wellness" clients who were free of serious mental problems. The company found that the results were generally very positive, with many loyal users. At least 26 types are needed to enable consideration of key factors including methylation, metal metabolism, glucose control, absorption, neurotransmitter synthesis, etc. For example, I am a Type L..... which means
my genetic metabolic makeup results in a need for supplements emphasing methoinine, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and vitamins B-6, C and E...... and a need to completely AVOID supplements of folic acid, DMAE, choline, copper, etc. Proper typing requires identification of nutrients in overload (because of genetics) as well as nutrients in deficiency."Inositol has also been shown to help some with OCD. In the study, participants were given 12-18 grams of inositol a day (a very large amount). freedom, has your OCD at times COMPLETELY incapacitated you? <Made you unable to do ANYTHING except sit and think, think, think, with NO stopping the obsessive thinking (IF you have the obsessional thinking type)? Did it ever REALLY 'hurt', NOT like a bad headache but hurt in a terrible MENTAL, torture pain kind of way?
Yes, when I was in the army hospital, I was treated with anafranil. It simply doesn't work. Every 15 mins I would obsess. It was pure living hell. I'm better now, and sometimes much better due to years of trial and error and research.
Thanks and May God Bless and Heal you and all others in His own Special Way.
May the PEACE of Jesus Christ always be with us.
Take Care!!
Posted by McPac on April 13, 2003, at 21:12:48
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD » McPac, posted by freedom2001 on April 13, 2003, at 4:04:03
freedom,
actually I am being treated by the treatment facility that wrote the info. you posted!
Thanks for that info.
As for the magnesium, no magnesium glycinate will not hurt you in any way, if anything it will help much more than the mag. oxide, which is useless. Many products contain mag. oxide because it is a very CHEAP ingredient and simply saves them money! Get some mag. glycinate. (I knew of the 3 forms you mentioned to avoid, and yes, I also avoid those 3. The glycinate form will cost more, because it is much higher quality. Are you on the natural supplement regimen advocated in the post that you posted? I am (have been about 4 months). As for Anafranil, I used to take it years ago. It worked well for my ocd but knocked me OUT! I was always dead tired, various side effects, but it did work for my ocd. OCD sucks the gigantic elephant sac, I hate even hearing the letters o-c-d. I hope you are feeling much better freedom! Take care!!
Posted by freedom2001 on April 14, 2003, at 0:32:46
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by McPac on April 13, 2003, at 21:12:48
Hi brave OCD fighter,
> freedom,
> actually I am being treated by the treatment facility that wrote the info. you posted!
> Thanks for that info.I'm not sure what you mean by the 'treatment facility'. The info that I wrote was prescribed by myself. My hospital doc has less involvement in my prescription. It was through trials and sufferings that I'm currently on this regimen. So I don't understand what you meant by 'treatment facility'.
> As for the magnesium, no magnesium glycinate will not hurt you in any way, if anything it will help much more than the mag. oxide, which is useless. Many products contain mag. oxide because it is a very CHEAP ingredient and simply saves them money!I c. Cheap therefore they use it in most of the supplements.
But my UK magnesium is magnesium hydroxide. How does it compare to magnesium oxide?
Get some mag. glycinate. (I knew of the 3 forms you mentioned to avoid, and yes, I also avoid those 3. The glycinate form will cost more, because it is much higher quality. Are you on the natural supplement regimen advocated in the post that you posted? I am (have been about 4 months).
Where and how can I get magnesium glycinate? Is there a magnesium glycinate/calcium carbonate/zinc/vit D combo? I don't mind paying more.
Yes, I'm taking a variety of approaches to tackle this terrible illness.
As for Anafranil, I used to take it years ago. It worked well for my ocd but knocked me OUT! I was always dead tired, various side effects, but it did work for my ocd.
Anafranil side effects can be quite bad. Perhaps when I was on anafranil, the army colonels keep stressing me up, therefore producing a counter-effect on me. They thought I was putting on an act to escape the conscription (I had genuine OCD problems, mind them!), and keep piling enormous stress on me.
OCD sucks the gigantic elephant sac, I hate even hearing the letters o-c-d. I hope you are feeling much better freedom! Take care!!
Today, my condition worsened in the morning due to a huge quarrel with my friend two days ago and I had been sleeping at 5am for the past 2 days. I hope I can recover soon!
Have you learnt about my plan to set up an OCD Research Centre?
Pls tell me your current situation now too.
Take care and God bless!
Posted by McPac on April 14, 2003, at 21:14:19
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD » McPac, posted by freedom2001 on April 14, 2003, at 0:32:46
"I'm not sure what you mean by the 'treatment facility'. The info that I wrote was prescribed by myself. My hospital doc has less involvement in my prescription. It was through trials and sufferings that I'm currently on this regimen. So I don't understand what you meant by 'treatment facility'".
>>>>>I was referring to this info:
1) High Histamine (under-methylated)
40-70 is optimum histamine range for mental health considerations. Histamine is an important neurotransmitter which affects human behavior. This syndrome often involves seasonal variations in depression, obsessive-compulsive behavior, inhalant allergies, and frequent headaches. In severe cases involving psychosis, the dominant symptom is usually delusional thinking rather than hallucinations. They tend to speak very little and may sit motionless for extended periods. They may appear outwardly calm, but suffer from extreme internal anxiety. Most OCD patients with both obsessive thoughts and compulsive actions are in this category. Associated with under-methylation, which results in low levels of important neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. Treatment focuses on the use of antifolates such as calcium, methionine, SAMe, magnesium, zinc, TMG, omega-3 essential oils, B6, inositol, and A, C and E. The dose of inositol is 500 to 1000mg. Choline is anti-dopaminergic and often makes undermethylated patients worse. Also bad are DMAE, copper and folic acid. Three to six months of nutrient therapy are necessary to correct this chemical imbalance. Symptoms will return if treatment is stopped.
>>>>>The late Dr. Carl Pfeiffer pioneered much of this research. The Pfeiffer Treatment Center, named for him, is in Illinois and treats people with biochemical imbalances. I go there. Do a Google search to find info about Pfeiffer Treatment Center (interesting stuff).
"Where and how can I get magnesium glycinate? Is there a magnesium glycinate/calcium carbonate/zinc/vit D combo? I don't mind paying more".
Do a Google search. You can find mag. glycinate that way. It may be hard to find just the right combo you want though. "Source Naturals" makes a magnesium malate/calcium malate/vitamin-d/zinc combo in liquid form (which is nice because it tastes good, is very easy to take (convenient) and doesn't even cost too much. I've used it before.
"Perhaps when I was on anafranil, the army colonels keep stressing me up, therefore producing a counter-effect on me. They thought I was putting on an act to escape the conscription (I had genuine OCD problems, mind them!), and keep piling enormous stress on me".
>>>>>freedom, I don't know how ANYBODY could get better under those conditions! Stress aggravates ocd a great deal and it would be very hard to feel better in that situation.
"Today, my condition worsened in the morning due to a huge quarrel with my friend two days ago and I had been sleeping at 5am for the past 2 days. I hope I can recover soon!"
Yep, no doubt about it, stress, arguing, fighting....it all exacerbates ocd. Try practicing Skilled Relaxation Therapy (a type of Meditation)! I'm serious! If money is no object, go to the Centerpointe website (I think www.centerpointe.com) and read about their tapes/CD's. It's expensive but many swear by it. You don't have to use Centerpointe, other tapes are fine (the idea is to reach alpha/theta brainwave states, which release accumulated stress in the hypothalmus. Try this site also: www.askwaltstollmd.com (use the Archives there to read about Skilled relaxation and many other topics. I post on that site at times too.)
"Have you learnt about my plan to set up an OCD Research Centre?"
>>>>No I haven't. Sounds good! Do a Google search for the "Obsessive Compulsive Foundation (OCF)". I used to subscribe to their newsletter years ago.
"Pls tell me your current situation now too".
>>>>>>>freedom, OCD rarely bothers me anymore. It was unbelievable hell for me years ago (for many years) but I don't get many symptoms now. Meds (like Zoloft) seem to work great at keeping it away. But if I stopped taking it, no doubt it would SUCK again! I'm trying to correct some underlying imbalances w/ the help of the Pfeiffer center. I had very high histamine levels, which they are trying to lower. I also had very high copper levels, which I'm trying to lower. So I'm taking a lot of natural supplements too. The biochemical testing is great because you find out exactly what you DO need to take, what you DON'T want to take, any biochemical imbalances, etc.
Are you taking a med/med combo that is working for your ocd?
Hey, try fish oil too (if you haven't)! It may help.
"Take care and God bless!"You too dude! Keep me posted on how you are doing! Try to keep the stress level down (try the Meditation).
p.s. If you want to know detailed info about various supplements, ask Larry Hoover. He posts here and is awesome. He has a chemist background.
Take care & God Bless to you my friend!!!
Posted by katiebell on December 31, 2008, at 9:34:22
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD » McPac, posted by freedom2001 on April 13, 2003, at 4:04:03
My 25 year old son has been suffering from ocd and has shown amazing results taking inositol 12grams. I have read how supplements are beneficial. I can't find out how much of each to take? How much magnesium,calicum, b6, omega 3 oils etc. does he need to take daily? also what is helpful for sleep?
Posted by desolationrower on January 8, 2009, at 20:38:31
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by katiebell on December 31, 2008, at 9:34:22
> My 25 year old son has been suffering from ocd and has shown amazing results taking inositol 12grams. I have read how supplements are beneficial. I can't find out how much of each to take? How much
magnesium - 500mg, get citrate or another oragnic form like that, if you get oxide or something it won't absorb (and will fix any constipation you didn't even know you had....)
,calicum - 1g, less important than getting several thousand IU of vitamin D3, which controls calcium absorbtion
, b6 - i would get a b-vitamin complex
, omega 3 oils - 2-3g per day of combined EPA/DHA (not the same as total fish oil, look for the active amount). could try up to 4-5 a day. at highest amounts watch for slow clotting of cuts, immune system supression (nagging colds, etc)
etc. does he need to take daily? also what is helpful for sleep?if sleep initiation is problem, melatonin an hour before bed could help. if he's waking up, i don't think there is a sup that will really be effective, get some trazodone or something.
-d/r
Posted by mogger on January 27, 2009, at 18:31:56
In reply to COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by freedom2001 on April 12, 2003, at 21:56:03
18 grams of inositol a day has been the best thing for my OCD hands down. Unbelievable stuff.
Posted by freedom2001 on January 28, 2009, at 13:25:10
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT FOR CHRONIC OCD, posted by mogger on January 27, 2009, at 18:31:56
> 18 grams of inositol a day has been the best thing for my OCD hands down. Unbelievable stuff.
Hi there friends,
I hope all are doing well and coping fine with your problems.
Nice to know you guys here and thanks for the replies.
I'm a Singaporean chinese guy from Singapore, been battling the illness for like 20 years..Finally shut the dam thing down (well almost..at 99.999%) about 2-4 years ago with the cocktail treatment of Prozac, Clonazepam, vitamins, minerals and Omega 3 fish oils, as well as avoiding things that can worsen/trigger OCD..eg high salt, artificial colorings, flavorings..(I do snack once in a while though)...
God bless all you guys here.
Keep posting!
Arthur.
This is the end of the thread.
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