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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
I was wondering if anyone has started taking this med? I have been taking it (25mg) for two days so far and am experiencing the usual anti-depressant 'bed-in' period, ie dizziness, insomnia, nausea etc. I had understood from all of the studies that I have read on it that it has far less side-effects than the usual, but does this mean that you still have to go through the usual discomfort at the beginning?
I hope so, as I have been waiting for 3 years for this, having tried literally everything else on the market over the last 10yrs. I'm taking it for insomnia and anxiety, both of which it is reported to work well on, though it is exacerbating both at the moment!
Can anyone who has been on a trial for this med tell me anything about the first week or so, and whether it should settle down?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.David
Posted by desolationrower on November 28, 2008, at 13:34:23
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
I wonder if it is more the stress from finally getting to try it after waiting a while. Putting pressure on yourself to feel it working right away.
-d/r
Posted by Extreme on November 28, 2008, at 15:43:04
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
I would also like to hear from people who have tried this medicine as Im going to get it in feb next year probably.
Like for example.. if you take this for sleeping problems, should you then take it before bed or during the day (btw, when do you take it DanielDavid)? I mean... messing with the cyrchadian rhytm (or affecting it) could be a very dramatic change and there must be some data about WHEN the dosage is best placed for different kinds of problems?
Posted by dapper on November 29, 2008, at 0:57:19
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
Hey guys, I am part of another forum that only talks about agomelatine. A couple members are getting started and have reported similar initial side effects. From what I understand, it seems that the side effects is just a bit of turmoil from the chemical changes, and they will subside. Some of them have started on smaller doses to adjust (12.5mg).
As for if you take it day or night, I believe it is to be taken at night, like 1-3 hours before you generally sleep.
Posted by DanielDavid on November 29, 2008, at 4:35:44
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by dapper on November 29, 2008, at 0:57:19
> Hey guys, I am part of another forum that only talks about agomelatine. A couple members are getting started and have reported similar initial side effects. From what I understand, it seems that the side effects is just a bit of turmoil from the chemical changes, and they will subside. Some of them have started on smaller doses to adjust (12.5mg).
> As for if you take it day or night, I believe it is to be taken at night, like 1-3 hours before you generally sleep.Dapper - thanks for that. I'm not sure if you're allowed to post the name of the site, but I hope somehow you can convey it to me within the rules of this site as it would be really helpful to me.
I have been through this difficult patch on many similar meds over the years, so I'm not panicking. I'm just hoping that it will settle down and prove to be the as good as the reports say it is. From what you say, this may be the case, which is encouraging.
Last night was night 3, and whilst there is a small improvement, I was awake fitfully for much of the night and feel pretty 'wired' today so far. This seems to clear up around early afternoon.
Anyway, I hope you can point me in the right direction and that I can perhaps chat with others who are a few days further down the line than me.David
Posted by polarbear206 on November 29, 2008, at 7:29:01
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
Any Idea when it will be available here in the states? I couldn't find any info, only that it's been approved to be marketed in the States. This drug seems very promising. No sexual side effects too. I'm very interested. Please keep us posted with your progress. Good Luck
Posted by Extreme on November 29, 2008, at 7:47:52
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by dapper on November 29, 2008, at 0:57:19
dapper:
Thanx for the info!
One thing I have thought about A LOT during the years since my miracle-effect with melatonin around year 2003 is the "problem" with oneselfs own melatonin-levels. I consulted a specialized doctor about messuring the melatonin-levels but she said that you can only measure levels of melatonin and COMPARE with your own levels during a long period of time (6 months or something) and then make some conclusion about the "melatonin-state" in your body. Because, she said, human melatonin-levels are very indivdual and there are no typcially "normal-level" ever discovered due to that fact.
So in light of this complex issue one can really wonder how many who actually have a lack of melatonin or a disturbance in that system. The time I took melatonin and it gave the feeling of a "total reset" in my body and mind I worked shift.. sometimes night, sometimes day, slept very little.. I guess I came to a state where melatonin and perhaps serotonin was lowered very much. If my melatonin-levels always has been low... i dont have a clue and as stated above... it would require measuring over long long time to find out that.
I guess I will find out the truth once I try this...
Posted by Maria3667 on November 29, 2008, at 11:12:53
In reply to Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 28, 2008, at 9:21:42
Hi David,
Thanks very much for posting your experience. I'm wondering though, how did you get the Agomelatine? As far as I know, it hasen't been approved yet in the western world.
If you feel more comfortable about it, feel free to send me a private message.
Best wishes,
Maria
> I was wondering if anyone has started taking this med? I have been taking it (25mg) for two days so far and am experiencing the usual anti-depressant 'bed-in' period, ie dizziness, insomnia, nausea etc. I had understood from all of the studies that I have read on it that it has far less side-effects than the usual, but does this mean that you still have to go through the usual discomfort at the beginning?
> I hope so, as I have been waiting for 3 years for this, having tried literally everything else on the market over the last 10yrs. I'm taking it for insomnia and anxiety, both of which it is reported to work well on, though it is exacerbating both at the moment!
> Can anyone who has been on a trial for this med tell me anything about the first week or so, and whether it should settle down?
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> David
Posted by DanielDavid on November 29, 2008, at 11:22:21
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » DanielDavid, posted by Maria3667 on November 29, 2008, at 11:12:53
Maria,
Totally comfortable passing on what i know!
My business partner is Ukrainian and Agomelatine (Melitor) is licensed in Ukraine. She bought it for me and it has all of the correct Servier branding etc (I have checked it's authenticity with them).David
Posted by Maria3667 on November 29, 2008, at 13:10:10
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 29, 2008, at 11:22:21
Hi David,
Thanks for clarifying that! You are one lucky b*st*rd for getting it earlier than everyone else... I'm in Europe and will have to wait for the approval by the EMEA, which is expected in Februari 2009. But then they'll have to rev up all the machines to get it produced and dispatched to all the member states. I guess that'll take another few months.
Hope you are feeling better on Agomelatine.
Best wishes,
Maria> Maria,
>
> Totally comfortable passing on what i know!
> My business partner is Ukrainian and Agomelatine (Melitor) is licensed in Ukraine. She bought it for me and it has all of the correct Servier branding etc (I have checked it's authenticity with them).
>
> David
Posted by JayBTV2 on November 29, 2008, at 15:12:53
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by DanielDavid on November 29, 2008, at 11:22:21
David,
PLEASE continue to keep us up to date on how this medication works for you. Personally I'd love a daily log of sorts :) Agomelatine is something I've been waiting for for years and I'd love to have some anecdotal information even if they're not positive.
Thanks much for posting any info you can on how it's working for ya!!!!!!
-Jay
> Maria,
>
> Totally comfortable passing on what i know!
> My business partner is Ukrainian and Agomelatine (Melitor) is licensed in Ukraine. She bought it for me and it has all of the correct Servier branding etc (I have checked it's authenticity with them).
>
> David
Posted by dapper on November 29, 2008, at 16:00:38
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » dapper, posted by DanielDavid on November 29, 2008, at 4:35:44
DanielDavid, sent you a private message with more info....
Posted by jrbecker76 on November 30, 2008, at 1:01:51
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by dapper on November 29, 2008, at 0:57:19
I noticed that the sleep disruption subsided after a week or so, and then finally started to actually have some sleep-maintenance effects at that point. The only real side effects I had were some mild headache and tiredness... which both faded after the first couple of days. Antidepressant effects subtly built over the first 2-3 weeks. I ended up going up to 50 mg, and had better efficacy with no real trade-off of side effects.
Agomelatine is not a robust antidepressant in itself (at least for those of us with more entrenched forms of depression), but I do see it as a good first-line therapy for those with mild-to-moderate depression. Equally, it has the potential to be a good augmenter.
I have actually used Rozerem (ramelteon) with somewhat similar success after my trial of agomelatine ended. Consequently, I am now quite certain that the melatonergic action of agomelatine is responsible for at least part of its antidepressant/anxiolytic efficacy.
JB
Posted by uncouth on November 30, 2008, at 15:22:33
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by jrbecker76 on November 30, 2008, at 1:01:51
So would you say in your experence that agomelatine isn't as strong as parnate?
I heard in the studies and from a few people who have tried "everything" that Ago has been working on severely TRD cases.
Maybe it just takes a while?
I think the brain can actually heal itself.....and normalizing circadian rhythms are a HUGE HUGE HUGE and underresearched part of that intrinsic healing process. When we take meds were basically artificially doing something the brain actually has capacity to do itself, as long as the brain can rest correctly.
Nightime light, substances like caffeine, sedentary lifestyles, environmental stressors.....all screw up circadian rhythms and limit the ability of the brain to repair itself and defend itself against stresses.
Obviously it's more complicated than that, but lots of sleep meds put you down, but don't necessarily renormalize circadian rhythms. I think thats why lots of people are excited to to try Ago. The 5htc thing seems like a "kicker" .
Posted by clipper40 on December 1, 2008, at 4:56:46
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by jrbecker76 on November 30, 2008, at 1:01:51
So you didn't notice much difference between agomelatine and Rozerem? Is the 5-ht2c agonism that weak? How come no one ever mentions an antidepressant effect for Rozerem? Also, I've often read that there isn't much, if any, advantage to taking Rozerem rather than melatonin. Do you think that taking melatonin on a regular basis could then have a similar effect to agomelatine? Lastly, do you intend to go on agomelatine alone or as an augmentor once it's available in the U.S.?
Sorry for all of the questions. I'm just really interested in this new medication.
Posted by Cecilia on December 1, 2008, at 14:39:24
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » jrbecker76, posted by clipper40 on December 1, 2008, at 4:56:46
Yes, I'm curious too, because I've read that Melatonin can actually increase depression. It gave me nightmares and didn't help me get to sleep any faster. Still, I'll probably give Agomelatine a try if it ever actually gets approved. Unfortunately, I don't expect that to be any time soon, at least in the U.S. Cecilia
Posted by jrbecker76 on December 1, 2008, at 18:36:31
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by Cecilia on December 1, 2008, at 14:39:24
>So you didn't notice much difference between agomelatine and Rozerem? Is the 5-ht2c agonism that weak? How come no one ever mentions an antidepressant effect for Rozerem? Also, I've often read that there isn't much, if any, advantage to taking Rozerem rather than melatonin. Do you think that taking melatonin on a regular basis could then have a similar effect to agomelatine? Lastly, do you intend to go on agomelatine alone or as an augmentor once it's available in the U.S.?
>Sorry for all of the questions. I'm just really interested in this new medication.
Hi, I don't want anyone to take away any objective comparison between agomelatine and Rozerem (ramelteon) since mileage will of course vary by individual, especially within the highly diverse audience that is this forum. However, for me, yes, they have been somewhat similar. If I would be forced to dissect further differences, I would say that ramelteon helps with sleep more than agomelatine did. Perhaps this is due to the short half-life of agomelatine, which is only a couple of hours. As for the mood effects, as mentioned, both of them tend to subtly enhance my mood and have a "calming" effect that is quite unlike other antidepressant therapies (e.g., SSRIs). On certain days, agomelatine's effect in this regard was stronger, but once again, I'm stretching in my ability to make an objective comparison looking back retrospectively at this point.I was originally skeptical about the utility of melatonergic agonists, especially given the fact that I suffer from atypical depression with SAD, and the theories are inconclusive on what role melatonin plays in this condition. Most of the user feedback I have heard about Rozerem is that it is not a strong hypnotic at all, and in fact, causes further sleep disruption. However, there seems to be a significant minority of users that do respond well to it, especially for those that use it as an augmenter.
Couple further things to keep in mind. I have always used both drugs in augmentation with a low dose of Cymbalta and Nefazodone (both taken at night as well). While initiating both agomelatine and rozerem, I found that sleep disruption was apparent for the first few nights, but ended up being of benefit (both for sleep initiation and sleep maintenance) after several days of use. In taking holidays from Rozerem, I notice that my mood worsens slightly. Not sure if this a mild withdrawal effect (studies have reported there is not one) or just my mood going back to baseline.
It is interesting to note that Rozerem is currently being studied in Ph III trials for add-on benefit in major depression.
Bottomline, will agomelatine be a useful option for depression and/or insomnia? Yes. Would I go so far as to say that most moderate-to-severe forms of depression can be treated monotherapeutically with this agent alone? No. Is the main mechanism of action the 5-HT2c antagonism or the M1/M2 agonism of this compound? Both. In vivo studies have already proved this much. But of course, in the end, what does it matter if the drug works?
Do I plan on trying it again when it comes on the market? Probably. However, I am also eager to try other sleep agents that might reach the market in '09 as well (e.g,. the 5-HT2A antagonist, eplivanserin).
JB
Posted by clipper40 on December 4, 2008, at 3:08:09
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor, posted by jrbecker76 on December 1, 2008, at 18:36:31
Thanks so much! You always give such great detailed responses. Now I'm going to go check out eplivanserin. :)
Posted by psychobot5000 on December 5, 2008, at 14:42:52
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » jrbecker76, posted by clipper40 on December 1, 2008, at 4:56:46
Hi, thought I could add a few details here, so I took the liberty of replying.
> How come no one ever mentions an antidepressant effect for Rozerem?
I was on Rozerem for a few weeks once, and did not experience an AD effect. (I was on it for assistance sleeping) While I was probably only on it for three weeks or so, this has always been long enough for an antidepressant to work for me.
> Also, I've often read that there isn't much, >if any, advantage to taking Rozerem rather than melatonin.I would dispute that, at least for depressives. While taking Rozerem didn't help my mood, it didn't hurt it either. However, when I took melatonin, even for a night or two, it made me even more depressed. I'll never take it again.
Best,
psychbot
Posted by DanielDavid on December 6, 2008, at 11:18:09
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » jrbecker76, posted by clipper40 on December 4, 2008, at 3:08:09
Hi all,
I see that most of you already post on the other site, so i won't repeat my ago findings so far, except to say that i think that it isn't the magical cure that I (personally) have been looking for. Early days, however.
I am particularly interested in any new insomnia and anxiety meds that are coming to the market soon, so can anyone point me in the right direction? I feel that at last some progress is being made in both areas, after what seems like years of mind-numbing rather crude drugs with bad side-effects. This fills me with hope, as I feel that a lot of us who suffer these things could be remarkable human-beings if we were able to aleviate these problems! For example, I'm trying to find out more info on eplivanserin and whether this is anxiolytic in any way, but so far haven't found much.
All of our lives could be made much easier in the near future, and it's sites like this and the dedication and determination of people on it to seek out the newest info and spread the word, that means that we will all get there that much faster.
On a personal level, whilst I am not that clued-up on newest med info, I am quite good at seeking out supply channels as I have have reasonable contacts in many countries.Good luck all
David
Posted by clipper40 on December 6, 2008, at 12:57:13
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor » clipper40, posted by psychobot5000 on December 5, 2008, at 14:42:52
Great to know. I've been concerned about depression with melatonin so haven't taken it regularly. Yet I have a lot of sleep issues including sleep cycle problems. I'm also hoping that it doesn't have the same effect on the immune system that melatonin can have. I'm going to add Rozerem to my list to try. Thanks.
Posted by horty on September 9, 2009, at 19:29:44
In reply to Re: Agomelatine/Valdoxan/Melitor - Anxiolytics, posted by DanielDavid on December 6, 2008, at 11:18:09
Do any of these medications work for OCD?
This is the end of the thread.
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