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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 22:48:18
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 12, 2008, at 8:34:27
Found it...pumped to read this
Posted by JadeKelly on November 13, 2008, at 7:39:42
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 22:48:18
> Found it...pumped to read this
Hi Kenny, not sure what you found, however, yeah, if Klonopin and Nardil don't make you too tired during the day, you may want to stay on, I am. Another thing I know a lot do with PDoc is add SMALL amount of ritalin. Again, I def would'nt do that with out PDoc ok. I'm sure you'll find other augment strategies on the board, or do a search.
Good luck!!~Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 13, 2008, at 7:39:42
I've loved this site for years but don't find any of the augmentation strategies great. Mood stabilizers etc...More sedation? Hell, I might need it. Just not Lamictal god damn...I want to try a dopamine agonist pretty bad.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 12:23:36
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
> I've loved this site for years but don't find any of the augmentation strategies great. Mood stabilizers etc...More sedation? Hell, I might need it. Just not Lamictal god damn...I want to try a dopamine agonist pretty bad.
Maybe you could post a specific thread asking for Nardil Augmentations. Sometimes the experts in a certain area (Nardil) aren't on the board the day you post but be pateint. I've posted about the same thing but worded it differently, on different days, and have gotten more satisfactory answers. I know there are many that have been used. I, too, have watched this site for a long time but I always did a search based on what I was looking for. Go to google, or the feature may be here, I don't recall, put in Nardil and Augmentation Psychobabble and you'll have access to a lot of older posts that are still relevant. Maybe do a search for dopamine agonists too, you never Know! Hope that helps.~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 13:25:43
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
Kenny,
I just read your above post and it sounds like you know as much as anyone about these meds!I will follow YOUR posts and maybe I'll learn something..haha. What do you not like about Klonopin? I'm on 1mg 3xday. Long term effects I should know about? I've been on for years. What concerns me is that poster in one of these threads (you?) said that long term use can cause depression, is this true? I take for nerve pain, otherwise don't need it other than afraid of W/D's.
Thanks for anything you know. Also, what are some dopamine antagonists you are considering to
augment Nardil?Regards, Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 15:54:39
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 13:25:43
Yeah, I'm trying to be a pharmacist. I loved Klonopin at the beginning! I had a friend who gave me a big bag of them...I never used it recreationally (which I heard was great) because they worked so well. I had Dysthymia which in turn go exacerbated by , simply put, being down all the time. Which works for most people...So one can assume my depression got worse. And it has been since June or maybe even earlier. You take it for nerve pain you said? Isn't Valium better for that (at least when talking benzos...)? And if you're afraid of withdrawal (which I think you meant) Valium has a longer half life and theoretically is harder to get addicted to. Is it post operative nerve pain...fibromyalgia...?There are better things for that but if it works don't sweat it. And I hope I didn't say I wanted to take a dopamine agonist, I don't want TD when I'm other. And I don't need them anyways...But the dopamine agonists ,which I know you meant to say, that I am looking at are broad. There are not too common but I am a fan of Dopamine and do not wish to use a stimulant again.
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 15:57:53
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 13, 2008, at 7:39:42
I hate methylphenidate lol
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:02:06
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 15:54:39
I didn't say I wanted to take a dopamine *antagonist, I don't want TD when I'm older.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 0:20:27
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:02:06
Hi Kenny,
Sorry for the typo. Btw-Klonopin is widely prescibed for nerve pain, its the best in my opinion, damage to my neck from car accident long time ago, but it saved me when I was getting pretty severe headaches. They are gone now, still get frequent neck pain. Goin to try and D/C Klon in case contributing to depression. Want to be stable on Parnate first.
Carry on with the search! Will be eager to see what you find. Please post when you do!
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 7:23:24
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 0:20:27
that's cool, I actually found some people in the same boat as me. I am also on klonopin(clonazepam) 1 mg 3 x a day. Iv'e been on nardil for 10 weeks now, and I'm not feeling well. I believe it was the unusual dose increase from 75 at 4-5 weeks in to 105, it messed me up pretty bad with orthostatic hypotension, to the point when I stood up at any time I would get weak, alomost couldn't see, one tiime actually couldn't, and couldn't hear right unless I was lid down. I felt this majorly for about a month now it's just there barely in the mornings, and when I try to reach up high. I'm hoping the depression lateky is do to this. Well I am also looking for an augmentation. If you find something good, let me know
Posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 8:07:12
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe?, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 8:56:12
> PS- went back and read your post, I've taken ritalin and Providgil, Ritilan for many years, prov for less than week. prov is very wiry, anxious feeling (for me). Ritalin is more happily motivated sorta feeling. Just my experience with them. I'm sure other posters have losts of ideas on this.-Jade
Yes I did try to get low dose ritalin, no go, she actually wouldn't give me anything, but I see her next thursday, I'm going to explain that I really need something get things moving, this is my life we are talking about, and I have Alot of things in the next year to look forward to be at least failry well. What do you think?
Posted by kenny7 on November 15, 2008, at 9:45:21
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 7:23:24
I just went up to 90 after a few weeks and I have the same thing you have sh*t sucks
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 10:37:12
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 7:23:24
> that's cool, I actually found some people in the same boat as me. I am also on klonopin(clonazepam) 1 mg 3 x a day. Iv'e been on nardil for 10 weeks now, and I'm not feeling well. I believe it was the unusual dose increase from 75 at 4-5 weeks in to 105, it messed me up pretty bad with orthostatic hypotension, to the point when I stood up at any time I would get weak, alomost couldn't see, one tiime actually couldn't, and couldn't hear right unless I was lid down. I felt this majorly for about a month now it's just there barely in the mornings, and when I try to reach up high. I'm hoping the depression lateky is do to this. Well I am also looking for an augmentation. If you find something good, let me know
Hi That Guy,
Yeah, I remember when they raised you so high at once. I have some same reactions with Parnate, mine doesn't sound as bad. Are you back down to 75, or 90? Low blood pressure is my main problem too at the moment. I'll get up to go do something and all the sudden I feel dizzy and faint. I just stand there a minute or two and it passes. If not I sit down. It only happens when I'm standing so sure it is BP. When I had Hypertention problem around day 11 or 12, Doc put me on Nifedipine, a med for high BP. That was he*l. I call it the devil med (Although I wouldnt hesitate to take one for hypertention again) But this time I was on for 11 days, a walking zombie. Then when off I didnt feel the Parnate anymore. Talk about frustrating. Its been 5 or 6 days now, just the Parnate and Klonopin 3xday, and its kickin in again pretty well. These MAOI's seem to be finicky as in all has to be right dose, etc. So I wouldn't quit yet. I doubt my PDoc would give me Ritalin either. I know a lot do. Mine even put me on the "old" diet!! Barbaric!! No coffee,wine,beer,chocolate,bananas,etc. I'll let you know if I find any good augments, will you do same for me? Thanks. Hope that Nardil kicks in for ya soon. Your body is probly still recovering as mine was. Then it comes back.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 12:47:11
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:02:06
> I didn't say I wanted to take a dopamine *antagonist, I don't want TD when I'm older.
Kenny,
See thread much further down "antipsych dabblers" something like that. Especially look at Scott's (SLS) Post. Some talk of Dopamine agonistists, etc. Hope it helps.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 20:18:14
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe?, posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 8:07:12
> > PS- went back and read your post, I've taken ritalin and Providgil, Ritilan for many years, prov for less than week. prov is very wiry, anxious feeling (for me). Ritalin is more happily motivated sorta feeling. Just my experience with them. I'm sure other posters have losts of ideas on this.-Jade
>
> Yes I did try to get low dose ritalin, no go, she actually wouldn't give me anything, but I see her next thursday, I'm going to explain that I really need something get things moving, this is my life we are talking about, and I have Alot of things in the next year to look forward to be at least failry well. What do you think?That Guy & Kenny,
Here's a couple of things, (please pass onto Kenny). I started a new thread for you (hope thats ok) asking for Nardil Augmentations with no stims/benzos as it seems you can't get stims and benz you guys are on or could easily get. Not sure why, but a lot of the Nardil people arent around. Good sign, probly out having fun!
As for you That Guy, I know when my Parnate dose got messed up, it took a while (2 weeks?) to get it back. I'm feeling a little more every day now. So I think def that high dose all the sudden could have set you back. Be patient? It'd be a shame to quit if it just needs a little time to recalibrate.
Also, don't know if you know Ace, "Nardil King" aka "Nardil Champ". He was before my time but I always read his posts. Anyway, go to bottom or top of this page, go to search, and I suggest the following searches: (check BABBLE NOT web)
1. Ace Nardil
2. Nardil Ace
3. Nardil Augmentations
4. Scott &/or (SLS) Nardil- He knows alot, really smartSome of this could be several years old, doesn't mean its not effective. I would just make a list from searches, and add anything that posts to new thread (it'll be toward bottom of threads, I just did it) research all that looks good and take list of best to your PDoc. They like to see patients do their own research before you come in, eventually they will be willing to go with your ideas, even if they aren't crazy about them.
If you guys try all possibilties, and wait a decent amount of time, and Nardil doesn't work, I can vouch for MY experience with Parnate, at least in the short term. Hope this helps.
Cheers~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 20:52:14
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 20:18:14
thank you so much. I can't believe you remembered how they upped my dose, I am back at 75 not felling anny good effects, but feeling depressed, I was thing of staying at 75 for another few weeks, and hopefullt an augmentation. I don't think my pdoc. will give me anything, but what if I told her I would take resposibilty and that I feel I am desperate and very depressed which I feel, or ask her what she would mind if I got it from another doctor. Do you think this would be good? ALso you figure that my positive effects will return if I saty at this dose, or at 90?
thank you, you are a very kind and hepful person. I would love it if most people you find on here were as nice and helpful.
Posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 20:58:16
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 20:18:14
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 20:18:14
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe?, posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 8:07:12
> > PS- went back and read your post, I've taken ritalin and Providgil, Ritilan for many years, prov for less than week. prov is very wiry, anxious feeling (for me). Ritalin is more happily motivated sorta feeling. Just my experience with them. I'm sure other posters have losts of ideas on this.-Jade
>
> Yes I did try to get low dose ritalin, no go, she actually wouldn't give me anything, but I see her next thursday, I'm going to explain that I really need something get things moving, this is my life we are talking about, and I have Alot of things in the next year to look forward to be at least failry well. What do you think?That Guy & Kenny,
Here's a couple of things, (please pass onto Kenny). I started a new thread for you (hope thats ok) asking for Nardil Augmentations with no stims/benzos as it seems you can't get stims and benz you guys are on or could easily get. Not sure why, but a lot of the Nardil people arent around. Good sign, probly out having fun!
As for you That Guy, I know when my Parnate dose got messed up, it took a while (2 weeks?) to get it back. I'm feeling a little more every day now. So I think def that high dose all the sudden could have set you back. Be patient? It'd be a shame to quit if it just needs a little time to recalibrate.
Also, don't know if you know Ace, "Nardil King" aka "Nardil Champ". He was before my time but I always read his posts. Anyway, go to bottom or top of this page, go to search, and I suggest the following searches: (check BABBLE NOT web)
1. Ace Nardil
2. Nardil Ace
3. Nardil Augmentations
4. Scott &/or (SLS) Nardil- He knows alot, really smartSome of this could be several years old, doesn't mean its not effective. I would just make a list from searches, and add anything that posts to new thread (it'll be toward bottom of threads, I just did it) research all that looks good and take list of best to your PDoc. They like to see patients do their own research before you come in, eventually they will be willing to go with your ideas, even if they aren't crazy about them.
If you guys try all possibilties, and wait a decent amount of time, and Nardil doesn't work, I can vouch for MY experience with Parnate, at least in the short term. Hope this helps.
Cheers~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 22:44:38
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 15, 2008, at 20:52:14
> thank you so much. I can't believe you remembered how they upped my dose, I am back at 75 not felling anny good effects, but feeling depressed, I was thing of staying at 75 for another few weeks, and hopefullt an augmentation. I don't think my pdoc. will give me anything, but what if I told her I would take resposibilty and that I feel I am desperate and very depressed which I feel, or ask her what she would mind if I got it from another doctor. Do you think this would be good? ALso you figure that my positive effects will return if I saty at this dose, or at 90?
>
> thank you, you are a very kind and hepful person. I would love it if most people you find on here were as nice and helpful.Thank you That Guy. Its nice to be appreciated. I would say if in 2-3 weeks you aren't noticing difference, I would go up to 90mg either way. According to what I've read, 60-90 is normal range. A lot of people end up at upper end. What was your initial response before she raised you to 105mg? Did you feel good on the 75mg that you were on? I think you said yes. What I'm noticing with Parnate (happened to me awhile ago on Emsam too) is a week or so of really happy (after 5-6 days) then fade for a bit, now, after a month, I'm def feeling it again, only a slower increase in response. So, whats a week or two after the he*l you went thru already? Your brain needs time to heal/readjust?
I did what you are suggesting. I've never asked much of my PDoc but when I went in wanting MAOI I told him I was done fooling around.I was seriously depressed. I asked for Parnate and got it. I told him I wasn't getting off Parnate just give me antidote for ht crises, haven't had another ht crises.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give me stim of any kind, probably because of the htcrises (3) that I've had. I wouldn't want them. But I doubt your PDoc will give that to you either. I would think most other augmentations would be fine, why not? As long as they aren't contraindicated, what would be the problem. Just tell her what you said without getting angry, just be firm. Especially if you walk in with a "short list" that you've researched and know something about. All IMHO Of course.
Hope this works, give it some time, there's always Parnate, haha, it works! I'm gonna augment too tho. I ramble, sorry, its the Parnate!!! Oh, I would NOT say you may see another Doc. She'll be really hesitant to prescribe not knowing what else you may be on.
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 14:52:58
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 22:44:38
yes, you are right I was feeling great at 75, then I guess it went down a little now that you mention it, or euphoria and everything was gone, thats why I decided to up, but this was only 2 weeks on 75, and I didn't expect to go to 105!
I really think thhats what lead me here, but I guess if you figure stay at 75 for a few more weeks, which I was kinda thinking), I will. I trust your advice, and it's obviosly better than rushing it. I just really hope, I'm gonna try to push that I really need it as much as possible without causing some sort of despute. What do you think? Even for the ritalin, if I can find lots of resources. I have already read of ritalin, being safe, if monitored, compared to the rest of the stims. Plus All I have had is hypotension, and it helps that, as well as other side effects.
well if you can get back to me with your opinion on that, it would be great! and if you hear of good augmentors, let me know.thanks! Your awsome!
Posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 17:17:03
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 14:52:58
> yes, you are right I was feeling great at 75, then I guess it went down a little now that you mention it, or euphoria and everything was gone, thats why I decided to up, but this was only 2 weeks on 75, and I didn't expect to go to 105!> I really think thhats what lead me here, but I guess if you figure stay at 75 for a few more weeks, which I was kinda thinking), I will. I trust your advice, and it's obviosly better than rushing it. I just really hope, I'm gonna try to push that I really need it as much as possible without causing some sort of despute. What do you think? Even for the ritalin, if I can find lots of resources. I have already read of ritalin, being safe, if monitored, compared to the rest of the stims. Plus All I have had is hypotension, and it helps that, as well as other side effects.
> well if you can get back to me with your opinion on that, it would be great! and if you hear of good augmentors, let me know.
>
> thanks! Your awsome!Thank you That Guy!
This is where I think you got stuck, also. Like I said, these Maoi's seem, to me, to be finicky, you lose some effect when dose increase isn't done smoothly. In my case I had to d/c for a few days and add antidote for 12 days. Response was GONE when I came back on Parnate alone. Its coming back now tho. I bet yours will too.
You made a good point, if you could show her your BP is constantly low, and you feel (and have examples) that a small amount of ritalin would help jump start your response again AND help with low BP, maybe she'll go for that. I just wouldn't over do the BP problem.
Then, if its an absolute no, ask for increase to 90, along with an augmentor, again, show some examples, maybe print off the internet (medline is connected to NIH I believe and is a respected sight)
I don't think she will care about anectodes from people posting on line, you need examples from well known, respected sights, or books in the field.
So, you get the names of successfully used augments, from Babble if thats where you find them, and do a little concrete research and bring that, along with same for Ritalin. Tell her you'll see her sooner than usual if she wants. Maybe that will help.
It looks like we both started a thread on Nardil and aumentors so between the 2 sights you should get a few good hits/augments I would think (mine is toward the bottom).
When is your appt with PDoc?
Good luck with the search~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 18:18:25
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 17:17:03
yep, you hit it on the spot, once again, all of this was somewhat part of my plan, except the BP, thats pretty keen. But sometime before you told me some people on here that are pretty much experts. How would I find there posts? and do you think that will help along with reserach? I don't want to push the ritalin, cause she already said no, but I really feel it can help, and as you said,I read many people and articles proving this. I showed her like one or 2 but didn't really push. Do you have any suggestions?
thanks again
Posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 21:43:20
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 16, 2008, at 18:18:25
Hi that guy,
I would just say get top notch research on the ritalin, and oh, be prepared if she whips out a BP cuff, haha! That'd be a little embaressing if it was normal! I'm assuming your BP is low, mine varies. Today I'm laying down cause of low BP. Getting dizzy spells like in beginning. Its almost like drug restarted itself!
Anyway, I left you a way to search a couple of Nardil experts, along with how to search at bottom or top of this page. Check out that site higher up. I think you responded. I'll check with my friend who's been here along time and see who else would be good search for ideas. But remember, then you need to do your own research on that drug from a respected source to show PDOC. And sure, I think its fine for you to ask again. Just be confident with your research, she may have been uncomfortable before because of the high dose thing, who knows? Just don't get angry, or tell her what dose you want. Also be prepared that she may say no. Most do I believe. So be ready with a few augments that make sense for you. Let me know if you have trouble with that search.
~jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 17, 2008, at 14:12:12
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe?, posted by JadeKelly on November 16, 2008, at 21:43:20
thanks jade your a big help, I may be back for more so watch out.lol
Posted by JadeKelly on November 17, 2008, at 15:36:56
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 17, 2008, at 14:12:12
> thanks jade your a big help, I may be back for more so watch out.lol
No problem that guy, I'm around! One condition: If you do find remission, you have to come back and share with the rest of the class! Deal?
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 18, 2008, at 7:12:33
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 17, 2008, at 15:36:56
of course.
talk to you soon.
This is the end of the thread.
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