![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 9:57:36
Anyone have any experience usign low dose naltrexone for depression? I've started to try it this week, can't tell much of a difference, but I take about 3mg before I go to sleep.
Any potential HARM I'm causing using LDN? I know it's supposed to enhance immune function for people with MS...not sure if that's a good or a bad thing for people with Bipolar Depression like me, but I figured the enhancement of endorphins can only be a good thing that LDN supposedly leads to.
Anyone have any comments, PLEASE?
Posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2008, at 12:22:40
In reply to Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 9:57:36
I don't know about the bipolar but seems it might help autoimmune and don't know how reliable this article is. Phillipa
Yahoo! Buzz| Digg | Facebook | Stumble It! | del.icio.us | Fark
E-mail Close WindowE-mail This PageDrug Addiction Medication May Treat Other DiseasesRequired fields are marked with an asterisk(*)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Recipient E-mail:*
Your Name:*
Your E-mail:*
Add a Message:
Send me a copy of this e-mail. Type the characters in this picture:*
Click here to refresh with new letters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information you provide will be used only to send the requested e-mail and will not be used to send any other e-mail communications. Read more in our Privacy Policy
Send E-mail
| Print May 26, 2008 7:33 am US/Eastern
Drug Addiction Medication May Treat Other Diseases
Reporting
Dr. Max Gomez NEW YORK (CBS) ― Twenty years ago, Ronnie Raymond began losing her balance and strength. But now a medication that's used to treat alcohol and heroine addiction is working to provide relief."I was losing my balance dancing, wearing three-inch heels and dancing. And it was weird that I was losing my balance. So that's what gave me the first sign," Ronnie said.
Ronnie has progressive multiple sclerosis. Formerly an avid traveler she's collected masks from all over the world - the disease left her having to rely on a motorized wheelchair to get around. But there's another characteristic of MS that was almost worse.
"It led to having a lot of physical fatigue. I stopped working about eight years ago for a number of reasons, but one of them was the tiredness and not being able to keep up with what I was expected to do," Ronnie said.
Then about a year ago, Ronnie heard about an underground movement among patients who were using a medication for drug addiction to treat their MS.
"It blocks the receptors in the brain so the heroin abusers cannot get a high if they use the heroin. In subsequent years, it was actually approved for alcoholism," LDN advocate Dr. David Gluck said.
It's called lo-dose naltrexone. At less than a tenth the dose used for drug and alcohol abuse, LDN has some very different effects.
"It increases your endorphine supply, and that in turn strengthens your immune system, from which you get a host of wonderful outcomes, the basic one being that the disease no longer progresses," Dr. Gluck said.
Even though naltrexone has been FDA-approved for almost 25 years, it's only available in 50mg capsules, so LDN users have to get theirs from certain pharmacies that know how to compound the very low dose capsules. Only a few actually verify their work.
"After we are done compounding we send it to a lab to be analyzed to make sure our work is right," Victor Falah from Irmat Pharmacy said.
Patients usually take a capsule at bedtime. The apparent stimulation of the immune system may explain why a few small studies have shown a beneficial effect on a variety of diseases, including Crohn's, MS and Parkinson's. Other pilot studies are looking at whether LDN may work against cancer and HIV/AIDS.
Ronnie's MS stabilized a few years before she started on LDN, but she said it's still done something very important for her.
"No fatigue at all, a lot more mental clarity, I feel alive again. I feel like it's given me back my life," Ronnie said.
Posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2008, at 12:47:42
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please » uncouth, posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2008, at 12:22:40
A little one with bipolar mentioned. Phillipa
Funded by:
Stanley Medical Research Institute Bipolar Disorder Center at UT Southwestern Medical CenterKeywords
mood disorders substance dependence depression mania opioid receptor
Abstract
Bipolar disorder is associated with very high rates of substance abuse. However, few clinical trials are reported in this population. Naltrexone is effective for alcohol dependence, but its safety and efficacy are not established in patients with bipolar disorder and alcohol dependence. A 16-week, open-label, add-on pilot study of naltrexone was conducted in 34 outpatients with bipolar disorder and alcohol dependence. Assessments included the 17-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HRSD-17), Young Mania Rating Scale (YMRS), Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS), and an alcohol craving scale. Alcohol use was quantified. Significant improvement was observed in the HRSD-17 and YMRS, and days of alcohol use and craving decreased significantly. Naltrexone was well tolerated. Controlled trials are warranted. Depression and Anxiety
Posted by Sigismund on October 18, 2008, at 15:35:56
In reply to Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 9:57:36
How does it affect your sleep?
I imagined that it might disturb it.
More endorphins hey?
Sounds alright.
Posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 16:03:03
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please » uncouth, posted by Sigismund on October 18, 2008, at 15:35:56
my sleep was disturbed before due to the parnate + abilify, so it's hard to say. i was hoping it would help the sleep, but it hasn't made it better, either.
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 18, 2008, at 18:30:06
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 16:03:03
I am about to try this same medicine , I get my scrip on Monday. I have BP II, CFS type symptoms, I am really looking forward to trying it out. I think mine are 4.5 mgs.
Posted by bleauberry on October 18, 2008, at 19:58:03
In reply to Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 9:57:36
It was many years ago, but here at pbabble there was a fad for a little while of using Naltrexone to augment ssris, usually prozac. This was sparked by some talk of it in Dr Bobs psychopharmacology tips section and a couple anecdotal reports.
I was in on that fad. I was on prozac at the time. We all had to start Naltrexone at tiny doses, like little chunks from crushed pills, due to the initial nausea it caused. That subsided fairly quickly. The dose we all aimed for was 25mg to 50mg. I was on it for about a month. I can't really say I noticed that much except maybe a little more relaxed and a little more sociable. I wasn't really depressed at the time, just had that, you know, ssri emotional numbness thing. Naltrexone didn't do much for that, but it was only a month, so who knows. Other than the initial nausea I don't remember any side effects.
One funny thing. I rarely drink alcohol. I went with visiting family to a nice restaurant and everyone had wine. I looked forward to the buzz and knew just a tiny amount would do it. I drank a whole glass, and nothing. Nada. It was like kool-aid. I later realized Naltrexone had blocked the effects of the alcohol.
Anyway, this low dose strategy looks interesting. With immune problems of my own, I might have to revisit the idea of naltrexone again.
Compounding pharmacies aren't really necessary. You can crush a pill and divide it into equal piles for whatever dose you want, then reload those piles into empty gel caps. Each dose might be inaccurate by a milligram or two, but at such a low dose I can't imagine that would make a bit of difference in anything.
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 19, 2008, at 9:27:42
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by bleauberry on October 18, 2008, at 19:58:03
Yeah, from what I read, the medication acts very diffrent at does higher than 4.5 mg.
I have also heard about a dosing strategy where you dissolve a larger pill in a certain amount of water and measure out the liquid mix to get the right amount. That might be a more accurate way to do it of you don't have access to a compunding pharmacy.
Posted by oceancat on October 19, 2008, at 17:20:31
In reply to Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by uncouth on October 18, 2008, at 9:57:36
Hi,
I tried low-dose naltrexone (25 mg) for SSRI numbness and unfortunately it made me lose pleasure in life, what little I had -- like all the color had left the world. It made me sad. I did not have nausea at all, oddly. I took it for 2 weeks. It did help with compulsive behavior, though.
oceancat
Posted by bleauberry on October 19, 2008, at 19:26:35
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please » uncouth, posted by oceancat on October 19, 2008, at 17:20:31
Actually, low dose naltrexone therapy is maximum 4.5mg, minimum 1.5mg. The 25mg you took was far higher than low dose naltrexone therapy. The positive effects on immunopathology and mood are lost above 4.5mg.
> Hi,
>
> I tried low-dose naltrexone (25 mg) for SSRI numbness and unfortunately it made me lose pleasure in life, what little I had -- like all the color had left the world. It made me sad. I did not have nausea at all, oddly. I took it for 2 weeks. It did help with compulsive behavior, though.
>
> oceancat
Posted by oceancat on October 19, 2008, at 21:21:47
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please » oceancat, posted by bleauberry on October 19, 2008, at 19:26:35
I had NO idea. Thank you, I may retry. Does naltrexone come in such a low dose, though? And do you happen to know if this low dose is effective for compulsive behaviors too? Thanks again.
oceancat
> Actually, low dose naltrexone therapy is maximum 4.5mg, minimum 1.5mg. The 25mg you took was far higher than low dose naltrexone therapy. The positive effects on immunopathology and mood are lost above 4.5mg.
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I tried low-dose naltrexone (25 mg) for SSRI numbness and unfortunately it made me lose pleasure in life, what little I had -- like all the color had left the world. It made me sad. I did not have nausea at all, oddly. I took it for 2 weeks. It did help with compulsive behavior, though.
> >
> > oceancat
>
>
Posted by bleauberry on October 20, 2008, at 20:34:08
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please » bleauberry, posted by oceancat on October 19, 2008, at 21:21:47
Yeah, I had no idea either. I tried it a decade ago at 25mg and 50mg. To learn more, just type low dose naltrexone in a google search and you should find the LDN home page which is fascinating, as well as other hits too. If it helps behaviors of kids with autism, I suspect it would help many behaviors, maybe yours.
The strategy is to find the best dose between 1.5mg and 4.5mg and to take that dose between 9pm and 10pm. Most people get these doses from compounding pharmacies, and the best ones are listed on the LDN website. With a good measuring container of some kind, you could also dissolve a 50mg pill in distilled water and measure out the right dose, refrigerating the leftover for up to a week.
> I had NO idea. Thank you, I may retry. Does naltrexone come in such a low dose, though? And do you happen to know if this low dose is effective for compulsive behaviors too? Thanks again.
>
> oceancat
>
>
> > Actually, low dose naltrexone therapy is maximum 4.5mg, minimum 1.5mg. The 25mg you took was far higher than low dose naltrexone therapy. The positive effects on immunopathology and mood are lost above 4.5mg.
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I tried low-dose naltrexone (25 mg) for SSRI numbness and unfortunately it made me lose pleasure in life, what little I had -- like all the color had left the world. It made me sad. I did not have nausea at all, oddly. I took it for 2 weeks. It did help with compulsive behavior, though.
> > >
> > > oceancat
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 22, 2008, at 16:54:50
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - comments please, posted by bleauberry on October 20, 2008, at 20:34:08
I'm on my 2nd day of LDN (4.5)mg's. I definitely can already feel a difference. I have more energy and feel more focused and motivated as well as feeling a bit more optimistic than usual. Also, it has caused no anxiety ( problem with many meds for me in the past)
The first night it caused serious insomnia but the 2nd night it was noticebly less, and got a lot better quality of sleep. This side effect supposedly diminishes over time. But, so far , so good. If anyone is interested , I will keep updating every now and then..
JB
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 25, 2008, at 11:22:34
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - Day 2, posted by Jimmyboy on October 22, 2008, at 16:54:50
I am continuing to have sleeping problems after taking LDN. I am still able to fall asleep ok, but I have noticed that about 1-2 am I start waking up quite a bit and tossing and turning, feeling as if its time to wake up.
Before LDN, this never happened. Your body makes its endorphins around this time of night (1-3 am), and b/c the naltrexone blocks those receptors your body is basically fooled to make more endorphins than you normally would, thus doubling the amount of endorphins you make.
I don'tthink its coincidence this is also the time of night I start waking up and feel very alert.
The main positive effectsI have noticed is that I do not have any brain fog anymore- at all. Negatives I have noticed are a feeling of bodily shakiness , but no mental anxiety, my mind has been quite calm. I have also noticed an immediate moderate increase in libido, which is always a nice effect.
It feels just like it theoretically should-
the feeling you get after you exercise way to hard and you get an endorphin rush.Overall I think this can be helpful, but I believe I am getting a bit too much endorphins with my current dose. I am going to half my dose and see how it goes.
If anyone else is taking this I would love to hear their experiences.
JB
Posted by oceancat on October 25, 2008, at 14:02:32
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - Day 5, posted by Jimmyboy on October 25, 2008, at 11:22:34
Thank you for your posts -- please keep updating, I'm very interested in your progress. In an Ambien haze I took a small dose of naltrexone last night -- I split a 50 mg tablet into oblivion -- and while I tossed and turned all night, I had good dreams, an oddity for me, and after 3 days of serious depression and apathy I feel a bit better, though it could very well be placebo. Is it supposed to have an effect on mood immediately? I don't know much about this other than the Web page and posts here.
oceancat
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 28, 2008, at 18:53:51
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - Day 5 » Jimmyboy, posted by oceancat on October 25, 2008, at 14:02:32
I lowered my naltrexone dose to about 2mg/night a few days ago.
That has been a big improvement, all of the side effects have gone away, insomnia is much better and I no longer feel the bodily shakiness I felt at the higher dose.
I have managed to keep all the positives at this point. Still have much more energy when I wake up and still have improved focus and motivation. The last couple of days I have done a short amount of cardio exercise (15 mins) and noticed a very noticeable improvement in mood which lasted throughout the rest of the day. That seems to be a good addition to the LDN.
Posted by Maria3667 on November 10, 2008, at 15:35:20
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - Day 5, posted by Jimmyboy on October 25, 2008, at 11:22:34
Dear JB,
Are you still on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). Just wondering about your progress...
My best,
Maria> I am continuing to have sleeping problems after taking LDN. I am still able to fall asleep ok, but I have noticed that about 1-2 am I start waking up quite a bit and tossing and turning, feeling as if its time to wake up.
>
> Before LDN, this never happened. Your body makes its endorphins around this time of night (1-3 am), and b/c the naltrexone blocks those receptors your body is basically fooled to make more endorphins than you normally would, thus doubling the amount of endorphins you make.
>
> I don'tthink its coincidence this is also the time of night I start waking up and feel very alert.
>
> The main positive effectsI have noticed is that I do not have any brain fog anymore- at all. Negatives I have noticed are a feeling of bodily shakiness , but no mental anxiety, my mind has been quite calm. I have also noticed an immediate moderate increase in libido, which is always a nice effect.
>
> It feels just like it theoretically should-
> the feeling you get after you exercise way to hard and you get an endorphin rush.
>
> Overall I think this can be helpful, but I believe I am getting a bit too much endorphins with my current dose. I am going to half my dose and see how it goes.
>
> If anyone else is taking this I would love to hear their experiences.
>
> JB
Posted by curious1 on November 23, 2008, at 11:14:04
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone, posted by Jimmyboy on October 28, 2008, at 18:53:51
hi jimmy!
are you still using gla/sesamin and watching your diet, or just LDN for now?
I have just started gla and I think i see improvements.
Thanks!
Posted by tea on December 28, 2009, at 4:06:19
In reply to Re: Low dose naltrexone - Day 5, posted by Jimmyboy on October 25, 2008, at 11:22:34
> I am continuing to have sleeping problems after taking LDN. I am still able to fall asleep ok, but I have noticed that about 1-2 am I start waking up quite a bit and tossing and turning, feeling as if its time to wake up.
me2, and then I can't sleep for hours but early morning crash deeply .. tired thru day
>
> Before LDN, this never happened. Your body makes its endorphins around this time of night (1-3 am), and b/c the naltrexone blocks those receptors your body is basically fooled to make more endorphins than you normally would, thus doubling the amount of endorphins you make.
>
> I don'tthink its coincidence this is also the time of night I start waking up and feel very alert.
>me either, I alreadyt woke up in middle of night, this is earlier and I'm way more awake and cant sleep for hours. Dose is low too.. probably only 1.5mg or less
> The main positive effectsI have noticed is that I do not have any brain fog anymore- at all. Negatives I have noticed are a feeling of bodily shakiness , but no mental anxiety, my mind has been quite calm. I have also noticed an immediate moderate increase in libido, which is always a nice effect.
>me 2 with both , brain fog only lessened but it was severe
> It feels just like it theoretically should-
> the feeling you get after you exercise way to hard and you get an endorphin rush.
>yes - noticed that after a while on very low dose..and I could actually exercise and was driven to do more and able to without getting exhausted, strange
> Overall I think this can be helpful, but I believe I am getting a bit too much endorphins with my current dose. I am going to half my dose and see how it goes.
>yep that's what I thought then aI backed off to a couple of dots of powder and still woke up in middle of night.. still "fiddling"
completely wiped today after taking 1.5mg and now its night so I'm eventually out of bed(I actually lay all day on the bed after getting up a few times- my dogs joined me for company!) Its night now 9PM so I'm up!
> If anyone else is taking this I would love to hear their experiences.
>
> JB
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.